Not much of a salesman? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Forry · 08-10-2008, 10:33 AM

Ok, so it's getting clearer to me. I'm not much of a salesman. I've been busy and slowly expanding for the last 10 years, without much in the way of actually "selling" jobs. All referral work and clients who wanted to hire me.

Not sure if it's the current economy, or if I've tapped out the pool I had, or if I'm screwing something up or what, but I'm getting calls, just not really selling (maybe 1/4 close ratio). What next?

1) Try some advertising? I'm in the yellow pages, and have a half azzed page-holder website that's not done yet- HELLO, GET IT DONE DUMMY!

2) Learn how to sell? This almost offends me, as I haven't had to even think about that 'til now. I used to get 90%. Without trying.

3) Spruce up the image? I drive older trucks and wear logo'ed t-shirts (usually clean), could use a haircut.

4) Gotta run- I'll check back later...

**Double-A** · 08-10-2008, 10:47 AM

1. Forget the yellow pages, finish the web site this month if not sooner.
2. Why should it offend you that your client's buying habits have changed some while you selling techniques haven't? You're taking this personally and this is business. Grow some hide or go to work for someone else.
3. Absolutely! You don't have to go all metrosexual, but clean, washed, clean cut, neutral odor and clothes that fit and look clean go a long way to setting yourself apart from the rift raft that plies these trades along side us.
4. Loose the "Gotta run" attitude. This is the death knell of so many contractors. "I have to be someplace/pick something up/check on a job/run some materials/do payroll/run to the bank! Gotta jet!! Catch me if you can!"

<rolls eyes> You can not be in any type of hurry when you're meeting with clients. They have to be the center of what you are all about. If you even start to make them think they are not the most important thing going on in your workday, then you've lost the sale. Period.

Just think of how you dislike someone chatting with a coworker while you're being ignored, as if you didn't exist. Don't do that to your clients!

Find your market and market to your finds! Know what you can and can not do, what you are willing and unwilling to do and stick to it.

This ain't rocket science, its much harder. Pay attention to the details and the big crap will take care of itself.

mahlere · 08-10-2008, 10:48 AM

yes....

in all seriousness, if you don't want to sell, go work for someone else....

Jesse Kirchhoff · 08-10-2008, 10:58 AM

I promoted my lead carpenter to project manager/ salesman so that I can concentrate on growing the business. He is very detail oriented and has the gift of gab. It has worked out extremely well for us.

silvertree · 08-10-2008, 11:10 AM

First thing I had to get over was my "I'm a craftsman not a salesman" attitude.
As if it were better to be a carpenter. A successful business is the sum total of many different skills. One in 4 is OK close ratio. I think the previous advice was all very good. Good sales can be done, go to your local library and get all the sales books you can get your hands on. Pick a technique that fits your personality and perfect it. You'll be amazed at how your sales will pick up.

Forry · 08-10-2008, 11:49 AM

4. Loose the "Gotta run" attitude. This is the death knell of so many contractors. "I have to be someplace/pick something up/check on a job/run some materials/do payroll/run to the bank! Gotta jet!! Catch me if you can!"

I agree with all said, Double-A, this line however, was about me needing to run TODAY and return a machine I rented...

All- thanks for the input. Guess I'm looking for a kick in the pants... I'm having a hard time with the transition from being a smaller co. to growing and having to work harder to get the work.

It's not the job of anyone here to help, but I guess the input I'm looking for right now is this-

-A little encouragement to step up and adapt to the changing times/changing business model I'm reaching for.

-Ideas on how to be a better salesman... I've tried some things, and think maybe I'm just sounding desperate to the clients. Not sure how to proceed.

Thanks for the replies so far!

MGSProperties · 08-10-2008, 11:59 AM

read a book about sales it will help you to close jobs in the future.

Forry · 08-10-2008, 12:07 PM

I remember seeing ideas of good books to read... can't seem to find 'em now. Recommendations?

Carport King · 08-10-2008, 12:37 PM

I think you guys have it all wrong here. Is everyone that wrote a post here perfect at everything you do in your business? Are there some things that you shove off to others because in your mind hey I am not that good at this?

If you are not good at sales than find someone who is! I firmly agree to hire the best of the best for that position.

Yes it would be nice to where all the hats but sometimes you will thrive with all the right people in there places.

Why do you think the internet has done so well? There are so many online business and most have people all over the country and the world doing most of the work for them.

I have alot of ideas and I am very visionary but it takes alot of other people to take it to the next level and build it into my final vision.

Do not be afraid to hire out. Good luck.

Forry · 08-10-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carport King

I think you guys have it all wrong here. Is everyone that wrote a post here perfect at everything you do in your business? Are there some things that you shove off to others because in your mind hey I am not that good at this?

If you are not good at sales than find someone who is! I firmly agree to hire the best of the best for that position.

Yes it would be nice to where all the hats but sometimes you will thrive with all the right people in there places.

Why do you think the internet has done so well? There are so many online business and most have people all over the country and the world doing most of the work for them.

I have alot of ideas and I am very visionary but it takes alot of other people to take it to the next level and build it into my final vision.

Do not be afraid to hire out. Good luck.

Thanks! That's the right idea... not sure I'm ready for that step yet, but that's the model to strive for!

mahlere · 08-10-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carport King

I think you guys have it all wrong here. Is everyone that wrote a post here perfect at everything you do in your business? Are there some things that you shove off to others because in your mind hey I am not that good at this?

If you are not good at sales than find someone who is! I firmly agree to hire the best of the best for that position.

Yes it would be nice to where all the hats but sometimes you will thrive with all the right people in there places.

Why do you think the internet has done so well? There are so many online business and most have people all over the country and the world doing most of the work for them.

I have alot of ideas and I am very visionary but it takes alot of other people to take it to the next level and build it into my final vision.

Do not be afraid to hire out. Good luck.

which is the truth, if you have the capital to finance it....in lieu of that, you better be able to where a bunch of hats or have the ability to sell your vision to people who are competent and willing to work for free...

Mike Finley · 08-10-2008, 02:00 PM

1) I'd say what you are seeing Forry is simply a change in your market, specifically an increase in competition -- more specifically a lowering of pricing. (Can you verify this? Or do you already suspect it?) (Anybody saying they got 90% of their jobs has been relying more heavily on prices then they want to give credit to) You've simply been moved against your will into a position of competing on price now, because your bids are tending higher (thanks to your peers cutting prices because they are desperate to chase the few jobs available) combined with consumers who are double thinking remodeling and growing into a wait and see sort of mindset. In the past your prices have been more than competitive, you've simply raised your prices in the eyes of your prospects due to your peers lowering theirs.

2) Your sales cycle has most likely been increased, probably doubled right now. Everything points to a longer sales cycle now with consumers. Consumers aren't in a hurry, not with daily bombardments of bad news in the newspapers and tv newscasts. Are you following up with leads you have done estimates for? I'd predict you are finding that a lot of them still have not made a buying decision yet. Sometimes he who touches the customer last gets the sale. Following up and staying in touch is more important right now. A follow up with an offer to take another look at their project for prospects who still haven't bought after 60 days isn't a bad idea.

I'm not so sure that "selling" is your issue other than maybe just having to pay a bit more attention to business now. Increasing follow up, increasing your face time with a prospect, increasing asking more questions and increasing your perceived value to them should all be things to think about right now. Some would define that as being under the umbrella of "selling".

**Ed the Roofer** · 08-10-2008, 02:09 PM

My back has been against the wall this year very hard.

I am catching up and things are looking better.

Over the past 2 weeks I did something that I haven't done in a long time.

I got off my azz and became hungry for the sales again. Just like when I was starting out. I was faced with a choice to change my pricing or to become a better closer, as is always the eternal pursuit. No, I decided that lowering prices would not work, so I re-invigorated myself even with all of the adversity going on.

I have done 5 time the estimates per week that I normally do and I am getting more personal in my sales presentation. Heck, I don't even use my 8 page proposal except for an end of discussion summary, just to point out what we were talking about when we went through their job problem photos and my photo album of consistent solutions.

Thursday night, when I measured a roof for an 89 year old gentleman, who is extremely sharp and has a detail oriented background, I spent about 2 hours in his home just getting to know him better.

Yesterday, I delivered the written proposal and photos and he signed up for all of the upgrade options. I spent about another 2 hours with him this time also.

I also delivered another one to a home owner who got denied by his insurance company for hail damage. 90 % of all of his neighbors are getting free roofs, so I figured it to be a tough sell. He liked the detailed proposal and the professionalism and the enthusiasm I showed for my work and the pride I have in my employees.

Bam. An $ 11,000 one layer tear-off job. I spent about 2 hours with him also and got to know about this wife and kid. He told me that my devotion to spending so much time with him is what tipped the scale in my favor.

Go out and pretend like you are starting from the beginning again. Use that innocent eager enthusiasm that you surely must have had at one time. If that doesn't work, try the readings on a continual basis. Sign up for sales e-mail newsletters and ideas.

The ONE customer you are meeting with is the most important person and job to you. Believe it. Let them be aware of the sincerity. Live it as if every time you meet a prospect, that this is the one person that you want to know more about. Even take some written notes about some family details, so that you can throw those tidbits into a future conversation.

Make every prospect become not only a satisfied customer, but one that is grateful that they met you and chose your services. Develop an expectation from them, that they will refer you to other friends and family.

Keep in touch with all customers periodically. Results will improve. 1 out of 4 is just showing up. Any warm body with an estimate can sell 1 out of 4. You can do better than than and you know it, so get to it.

Ed

MGSProperties · 08-10-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forry

I remember seeing ideas of good books to read... can't seem to find 'em now. Recommendations?

For starting out I like this oldie but goodie
How to Sell Remodeling
Robert M. Gorodess

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/How.../9780910460477

Aiken Colon · 08-10-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGSProperties

read a book about sales it will help you to close jobs in the future.

Better yet, read a book that has nothing to do with sales. How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie.

I have been in sales for 17 years now, and this is by far and away the very best of all books on interpersonal communication. I make it required reading in my office. I would throw in MGSProperties suggestion on top of it to learn how to actually close someone for your trade, and How to Close Every Sale by Joe Girard is very good as well.

JJ

Forry · 08-11-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

My back has been against the wall this year very hard.

I am catching up and things are looking better.

Over the past 2 weeks I did something that I haven't done in a long time.

I got off my azz and became hungry for the sales again. Just like when I was starting out. I was faced with a choice to change my pricing or to become a better closer, as is always the eternal pursuit. No, I decided that lowering prices would not work, so I re-invigorated myself even with all of the adversity going on.

I have done 5 time the estimates per week that I normally do and I am getting more personal in my sales presentation. Heck, I don't even use my 8 page proposal except for an end of discussion summary, just to point out what we were talking about when we went through their job problem photos and my photo album of consistent solutions.

Thursday night, when I measured a roof for an 89 year old gentleman, who is extremely sharp and has a detail oriented background, I spent about 2 hours in his home just getting to know him better.

Yesterday, I delivered the written proposal and photos and he signed up for all of the upgrade options. I spent about another 2 hours with him this time also.

I also delivered another one to a home owner who got denied by his insurance company for hail damage. 90 % of all of his neighbors are getting free roofs, so I figured it to be a tough sell. He liked the detailed proposal and the professionalism and the enthusiasm I showed for my work and the pride I have in my employees.

Bam. An $ 11,000 one layer tear-off job. I spent about 2 hours with him also and got to know about this wife and kid. He told me that my devotion to spending so much time with him is what tipped the scale in my favor.

Go out and pretend like you are starting from the beginning again. Use that innocent eager enthusiasm that you surely must have had at one time. If that doesn't work, try the readings on a continual basis. Sign up for sales e-mail newsletters and ideas.

The ONE customer you are meeting with is the most important person and job to you. Believe it. Let them be aware of the sincerity. Live it as if every time you meet a prospect, that this is the one person that you want to know more about. Even take some written notes about some family details, so that you can throw those tidbits into a future conversation.

Make every prospect become not only a satisfied customer, but one that is grateful that they met you and chose your services. Develop an expectation from them, that they will refer you to other friends and family.

Keep in touch with all customers periodically. Results will improve. 1 out of 4 is just showing up. Any warm body with an estimate can sell 1 out of 4. You can do better than than and you know it, so get to it.

Ed

Thanks Ed, that's what I was needing to hear.
Largely it seams I'm living on the coattails of my early successes and reputation. Competition is fierce now and people are more discriminating buyers... money's tighter.
In the past I didn't have to work for a sale, people called because they wanted ME, and if it cost that much, well that's what it takes to do it. Now, everyone's shopping around, and of course folks can get it done cheaper. I try and sell on value, but I'm thinking my presentation is poor. I hear myself say stupid things, and later, after a consultation, I worry over all the things I did wrong. Sounds like a whiny little low self esteem loser, right? Never been like that before. I've always been self confident almost to a fault.

Things changed this last year... I hired a lead carpenter to run a "B" team with me doing the higher end jobs. Then I ran my hand through the table saw and couldn't work for two months. So I stepped back from doing the work to selling the work and running things from the back end. Almost right away things went better in a lot of ways. I was able to keep better track of scheduling, subs, materials, etc. much better than ever before. Then surprising enough, The $ started rolling in! Because I wasn't pounding nails, I could keep the guys running efficently and things went well.

Now I'm having a hard time selling... don't really get it.

Thanks all for the good advise, and for reading my whine.

Carport King · 08-11-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

My back has been against the wall this year very hard.

I am catching up and things are looking better.

Over the past 2 weeks I did something that I haven't done in a long time.

I got off my azz and became hungry for the sales again. Just like when I was starting out. I was faced with a choice to change my pricing or to become a better closer, as is always the eternal pursuit. No, I decided that lowering prices would not work, so I re-invigorated myself even with all of the adversity going on.

I have done 5 time the estimates per week that I normally do and I am getting more personal in my sales presentation. Heck, I don't even use my 8 page proposal except for an end of discussion summary, just to point out what we were talking about when we went through their job problem photos and my photo album of consistent solutions.

Thursday night, when I measured a roof for an 89 year old gentleman, who is extremely sharp and has a detail oriented background, I spent about 2 hours in his home just getting to know him better.

Yesterday, I delivered the written proposal and photos and he signed up for all of the upgrade options. I spent about another 2 hours with him this time also.

I also delivered another one to a home owner who got denied by his insurance company for hail damage. 90 % of all of his neighbors are getting free roofs, so I figured it to be a tough sell. He liked the detailed proposal and the professionalism and the enthusiasm I showed for my work and the pride I have in my employees.

Bam. An $ 11,000 one layer tear-off job. I spent about 2 hours with him also and got to know about this wife and kid. He told me that my devotion to spending so much time with him is what tipped the scale in my favor.

Go out and pretend like you are starting from the beginning again. Use that innocent eager enthusiasm that you surely must have had at one time. If that doesn't work, try the readings on a continual basis. Sign up for sales e-mail newsletters and ideas.

The ONE customer you are meeting with is the most important person and job to you. Believe it. Let them be aware of the sincerity. Live it as if every time you meet a prospect, that this is the one person that you want to know more about. Even take some written notes about some family details, so that you can throw those tidbits into a future conversation.

Make every prospect become not only a satisfied customer, but one that is grateful that they met you and chose your services. Develop an expectation from them, that they will refer you to other friends and family.

Keep in touch with all customers periodically. Results will improve. 1 out of 4 is just showing up. Any warm body with an estimate can sell 1 out of 4. You can do better than than and you know it, so get to it.

Ed

Ed and Mike some great advise. Ed in the marketing world we call this fall in love with your client. Most contractors do not understand this. And it is the most important part of the selling process.

As Ed has showed it pays off big time. Just do not lower prices change the way you sell or your presentation. Thanks

Mike Finley · 08-11-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forry

Now I'm having a hard time selling... don't really get it.

Again, there is really nothing to "get". You weren't "selling" before. You haven't changed, your local market did, what's happened to you is happening to everyone all across the country, it happened to some sooner and will happen to others later.

Don't beat yourself up trying to figure out what happened to "You". You had it easy up till now. Now things are more competitive. Margins will fall for awhile, the sales cycle is longer, you have to focus more on the fewer leads that come your way.

You're facing a market shake out. The strong will survive, the weak will be calling the strong looking for a job.

Start spending money.

Forry · 08-11-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

Again, there is really nothing to "get". You weren't "selling" before. You haven't changed, your local market did, what's happened to you is happening to everyone all across the country, it happened to some sooner and will happen to others later.

Don't beat yourself up trying to figure out what happened to "You". You had it easy up till now. Now things are more competitive. Margins will fall for awhile, the sales cycle is longer, you have to focus more on the fewer leads that come your way.

You're facing a market shake out. The strong will survive, the weak will be calling the strong looking for a job.

Start spending money.

I'm with you and get it now, and agree, right up untill "start spending money". Is this about Advertising?

Also, I'm toying with raising my rates again by 10%. Good idea/ bad idea?

robstiltner · 08-11-2008, 09:24 AM

You could always try online leads services such as EDIT*****.com but there are others out thier as well.