RemodelingSales

I'm really glad I found this forum. Seems like a lot of veterans in the business that can shine some light.

I graduated from U. of Pittsburgh with Management Information Systems. 2 years ago after graduatation I started my career in Real Estate Sales. I still love it and doing it on a part time basis now. I'm right now looking for something to supplement the income and to learn more about residential construction etc.

I have found the remodeling sales career to be unique and the potential is there $. But what I need to know from the regular sales rep what the position entails and what I can expect. Time after time I hear from recruiters/sales/hiring managers how great it is, but I'd really like to know the real deal and what it's like from a sales rep. I'm always seeing ads about reps making 60K-150K. Seems like the Average rep is making around 75K. DId the company account for the reps that left after a few months. Also how is retention in this industry.

I contacted the homeremodelersgroup.com AKA Mark Four Enterpises rated #12 in sales volume. Please check them out and tell me what you think.

here is the ad from the recruiter:

Our company is called MARK FOUR ENTERPRISES, INC. located in Fairfield, New Jersey with a branch office in Cinnaminson, New Jersey. We are the largest home improvement company in the State of New Jersey and 12th largest in the USA. We have been in business since 1964 and serve the entire State of New Jersey, Southern New York and Eastern Pennsylvania with recent expansion to Staten Island and Westchester. We have grown in the last 14 years from 2 million dollars in sales to projected sales this year of over 40 million dollars. Mark Four is a top-notch sales and marketing concern that retails a quality line of home improvements. We have been selling under the SFI license for SEARS Home Central since 1981 as well as promoting our very successful house brand called THE HOME REMODELERS GROUP since the inception of our company. In fact, the owner and founder, Jerry Leen, has a nationally syndicated radio talk show on WOR 710 AM on Saturday afternoons at 2 pm EST covering all face
ts of home improvements.

We offer our associates in depth paid training, health and dental insurance, a 401K program in addition to some of the highest earnings in any industry. The average person on our sales staff of over fifty earns approximately $70,000 per year with a significant number of our representatives earning well above $100,000. Our top producers last year made over $150,000. Earnings consist of a combination of commissions as well as lucrative monthly and yearly bonuses including trips to the Caribbean and Las Vegas.

Our marketing division in Dallas, Texas generates, presets, confirms and qualifies all appointments.

Quite frankly, we are not looking for just salespeople, we are looking for business people that can sell and be an integral part of our award winning sales team. We are interested in those special individuals who will make a difference and assist us to the next level. We are expanding our staff and searching for the best of the best.

Please visit our website at homeremodelersgroup.com

If any or all of the above has caught your attention and you are seeking a genuine long-term career opportunity and would like to make a difference with virtually unlimited income potential, we would like to meet you. If you require more information or would like to arrange for an on site interview please contact


This is a full service company but they said I would be starting in the windows/siding sales division. You run your 2 leads a day Tues-Sat and get Sun & Mon off. Seems like you get paid full time pay for part time hours. Is this too good to be true? Is this industry a revolving door? Are they hiring warm bodies just to accomodate for the surplus of leads? Are remodeling sales people aligned with cookware and vacuum cleaner sales people? How respected is our industry considering all the fraud and scam out there.

Ever since I graduated college I knew the only way to make an executive level income without slaving for a blue chip would be to go into sales (or own your own business). I've looked into many sales careers. But none that seems or can come close to this. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME! I'd like to hear what you have to say. Should I run?

Thanks,
RPH

Mike Finley

Sales is sales and every sales manager will use their star performers income or the sales figures from a long left star that has never been bested as the spread of what you can earn. $150,000 a year means you should cut it by 50% for your first years earnings. Your 2nd year you should hit closer to 65% of their numbers. (This is of course taking for granted that you are going to be a better than average salesperson and work a ton of hours that first year)

The top numbers they use are usually the result of a unique situation such as a sales person who had an in with somebody that is feeding them customers or something unusual that will be impossible to attain just doing your normal job.

All sales positions have 2 common truths that are written in stone - 80/20 rule (80 percent of the production is contributed by 20% of the sales force. The other 80% of the sales force will be providing the remaining 20% of the sales) - and sales is a high turn-over position. The average sales person lasts about 9 months.

Whether it is remodeling sales or selling for a pharmaceutical company or selling cars those numbers and truths are identical.

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Teetorbilt

You're a salesman or you're not. It's a special breed, my wife is one of them as is a friend. They can sell ice to eskimos. You have to be able to live on rejection and look forward to the next deal. That's probably explains why many of them resort to drugs.

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You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Patty

Is Pinot Grigio considered a drug?

RemodelingSales

Great Info. Keep them coming. Finley what do you mean tons of hours? Don't you just work the 2 leads and thats it. I googled the company and there was an ex-employee who was a child molester Do they really give these guys background checks or this is how the industry is? lol

I find it hard to believe almost 100 views but no input. I think I have straight foward questions that I'd like to be answered thoroughly. Too many hiring managers fluff this sales position.

slickshift

Well 32 of those are mine
Lol
I keep trying to read through it (it's long) and figure out what you are asking
I'm having a hard time finding any actual questions, just an AD
So I reread it looking to figure out if it's spam for MARK FOUR ENTERPRISES, INC
As I'm sure the others are also

What are you asking?
It's hard to figure out from the post
It's a bit ramble-y

"Is this ad full of it?"
You would like a review of the ad/position offered?

It may be "hard to believe", but most viewers are probably are as confused as I am about your post, and no-one here is required to answer you

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

Mike Finley

Like SlickShift said, what exactly do you want to know? As for them hiring a child molestor, so what? You mean a convicted sex offender who did time and is registered? It's no crime to hire someone like that if that is what they want to do.

Tons of hours means - a lot of hours, like more than just work 2 hours and play golf for the rest of the day and expect to make any money. There is no such thing as a 40 hour week in sales if you want to make any money - at least not in the first few years.

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Publisher1

The viewpoints here are quite revealing. From my experience, the 80/20 rule definitely applies in sales, and if a company is overtly recruiting without some kind of screening/evaluation process before hiring, you should be very wary. (Of course, there is nothing wrong with making it look good to start, but if they are saying: "Start today, we'll give you a great career with full benefits" without any type of evaluation process, something is fishy.)

We're always looking for new representatives for commission based opportunities, but when someone calls, I put them through a bit of a grilling. Then, if they are still interested, we use an online service and pay for them to take a sales orientation test that costs us $50 a piece to administer. We buy the tests in $1,000 blocks. Most people who take the test score not too well.

We court the few that score well. Our best recent hire; a young college student who on the initial call to me didn't sound that great, but gave a clue in the phone interview she might be worthy of testing. She scored 8.5 out of ten on the key indicators for prospecting, closing and ability to work independently.

We offered her a guarantee to get started; I fretted when results weren't coming in during first two weeks, but she 'caught it' and is now doing the 'selling fridges to eskimos' thing. She has skills that she can now share/train with much more experienced reps.

My signal to test this candidate -- she told me she had worked for a scuzzy operation that hired everyone who called; she said she did better than anyone else working there, but couldn't stand the organization and its ethics. I sensed this person had the stamina for sales, and a healthy dose of integrity, just the kind of person we would like working for us.

But I probably would take 20 initial calls and screen five through the sales test before finding one like her. It is truly a needle in haystack thing.

RemodelingSales

The reason for my post is because I'm not sure about this industry. The career seems unique and interesting. But a lot of times it doesn't turn out the way I envisioned it to be. I like to ask experienced sales rep questions about their thoughts/ideas/experiences/goals before actually pursuing it myself. Is it Fun, rewarding, etc?
For me I just don't think sales is sales.

Grumpy

Sales is the highest paid hard wortk and lowest paid easy work. If you put in crap for effort you will get back crap for results. 40 hours is for retired people.

I couldn't live on 2 leads a day because I am not a "closer". I take a more laid back approach, which usually takes longer for the sales cycle to revolve, but I have found you usually get a much more satisfied customer. Just today I "closed" an estimate from 3 months ago. I doubt I would have lasted at this company this long. I'm in this for the looong run and build long term relationships with my customers, not one sit sales.

Another thing about "award winning sales orginizations" is that I have found, yes typically they are revolving doors. "Sales" people have a sterotype of being bullcrappers. Imagine a company run and completely comprised of bullcrappers. You'll never get a straight answer on anything ever.

My advice if you want to get into this industry is to work for a smaller company that might only have one or two sales people on staff. This is the type of company that will teach you more than closing abilities but also product knowledge. You will probably also find them more loyal to you since you will big a big fish in a little pond.

Is there money to be made? Yes. Don't expect to get rich your first year. You will make mistakes, and those mistakes will cost you sales. However speaking from my own experience my earnings jumped about 20% each year while working as a full time sales employee, until opening my company.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

PipeGuy

A drug? Can it even be considered a wine?

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RemodelingSales

Great Post Grumpy! You know I looked at another remodeling company they were almost as big as the this company. But as soon as I read their sales script about every home is a marketing/advertising home I knew it was misleading and decieving and knew why they were closing a little over 40%. A sales rep (from another company) mentioned the script was a method used in the 50's way back when. I was really curious why all the guys were 24-27 years old. Thought the VP of sales and branch managers were all bullcrappers. These guys tried to shove pay stubs in my face and I was laughing so hard inside because the level integrity is so low. Every script was tailored to ripping people off charging everyone the same. There would be the normal markup than anything you mark mark-up you cut 50% with the company.

Mike Finley

Well, whether you believe it or not sales is sales, with enough experience you will understand why this is so, but until then it's easy to understand why you think there is a difference.

If you are coming from a residential real estate background I hope you aren't mistaking being a Realtor for being in sales. I haven't met a single residential Realtor yet that was much of a sales person, unless things have changed dramatically the majority of the "sales" training given to Realtors revolves more around marketing then sales training.

You asked is it going to be fun and rewarding? Pretty hard to say because I have no idea what your criteria would be to label it that. It's called going to work for a reason. Fun is usually what happens after work with the money you made working.

Whether you find it fun or rewarding will have more to do with who you work for rather than what industry you are in. But there is some correlation to the industry and the selling environment. I can think of much more high pressure and harder core industries than the home improvement one. Usually the more hard core the industry the higher the rewards and perks because the burn out is so high.

But keep in mind it all comes down to selling is selling. Take my two friends as an example - friend #1
was always searching for a new sales job, looking for a "cool" product, he always talked about how he had to sell something he believed in, something he really could get into - the truth was it didn't matter who the hell he was working for - he sucked as a salesman, no matter what he was selling he sucked at it. Every 6-18 months he was at another job, chasing that cool product he could believe in, never suspecting that it wasn't the product he was selling, but was the fact that he wasn't a saleman at all, friend #1 never broke $65,000 in income in the 8 odd years I was in touch with him. Now Friend #2 on the opposite end of the spectrum was a salesman, he had sold in at least 10 different industries when I met him, he made well over 150K a year when I met him and last time I talked to him he was selling corn seed to farmers and on his way to making 250K. As a real salesman, he could careless about what the product was he was selling. He had a whole list of criteria that were more important, such as income potential and freedom.

While grumpys advice about a small company might have some merit, I would caution you against too small a company. The more people you are able to get in front of the faster you will learn how to sell. Being able to get in front of 5 appointments a day compared to 4 a week is going to sharpen your skills at a dramatic pace. Bigger companies hopefully have bigger training budgets, getting to sales seminars taught by national leaders will catapult you ahead in your career much faster than anything you can imagine. Smaller companies training might be "you will follow me around for two weeks, then do what I do." I would go for a big company right off the bat, learn your trade, get good at it, then move to a smaller company once you are at a point where you can take advantage of the benefits a smaller company offers without the drawbacks effecting you in your delicate development stages. You're going to find the bigger companies have more turn over and therefore more opportunity for you, the smaller companies will in some cases have saleman that have been there forever and little chance for you to get in anyways.

If I was a betting man I would bet that if you end up being good at sales the chances of you being at the same place you start your sales career in 24 months will be one in a million. Once you are in the loop, sales people begin to know where the best places to work are and will gravitate to them. Where you start is less important then where you end up.

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.