Kitchen Cabinet Software???

fathersonfab · 10-03-2007, 01:57 PM

Is anyone using software to layout and design kitchen cabinets? I'm considering using Planit Fusion. It will do a 3D layout of the design and turn it into an estimate and purchase order and has a built in catalog of all the major cabinet manufactures.

What are you using for design and estimating for kitchen and bath remodels?

Stacey · 10-03-2007, 04:33 PM

Planit and 2020 are the 2 companies that make cabinet software. The software is meant for companies that sell cabinets or make them. 2020 is used by 80% of companies in the US. Planit is mostly used by Canadian and European companies. Both softwares are in the $4000 range per key.

The estimate and plans created with cabinet manufacturers have to be with companies you are a dealer for. For example, say you are buying Thomasville cabinets from Home Depot. You would have to be a dealer for Thomasville to get the catalog that is downloaded into Planit or 2020. I know that Planit probably told you that you can get all these cabinet catalogs. But if you are not a dealer for those particular companies, you will not be able to get their catalogs.

So the question is: Are you a cabinet dealer (buy direct from the manufacturer)?
Second question: Is that manufacturer represented by Planit or 2020?

Many years ago we bought into 2020 (back 8 years ago it was only $3000). We were not dealers for any cabinet manufacturers. We bought from our local lumber yard. The yard provided me with 2020 catalogs (minus the pricing) for me to design projects for our design/build company. I would give the lumber yard my order and drawings printed from 2020. The orders went straight to the cabinet manufacturer. Everyone was happy until someone made a mistake. Then who was responsible was always a problem.

If you are not a cabinet dealer, you might want to try my old approach.

For 3 years now we have become cabinet dealers for 2 companies. One uses 2020 for pricing, the other has their own pricing software seperate from 2020.

I'll add some drawings as examples of 2020. They have been reduced in file size, so you probably won't look that good on this website

**KentWhitten** · 10-03-2007, 08:22 PM

I agree that 2020 seems to be big in the kitchen design world. There are options to look at, but if you are looking for simple, pimple stuff, the options I would give wouldn't be any different in price than what 2020 is. I personally use revit, cole uses archicad, you can use autocad also...but you have to set it up right.

there are 3d rendering programs that will do it also, some are free, but it all depends on some missing information that we don't know about, like your price range, are you doing it for a business, etc.

fathersonfab · 10-03-2007, 08:44 PM

I'm familiar with 3D design software, like autoCAD and 3D Studio Max.
But I want kitchen design software that can design a whole kitchen in a few minutes and spit out a list of cabinet sizes and place and order via fax or email that same day.

In researching I found 20.20 and planIt Fusion are the only two that can do that.

So I guess my next question is; is it worth it?

Can you give me and reviews of either one, how good is it?
Whats the ROI on a $5000 software package?

Mike Finley · 10-03-2007, 10:03 PM

If you're doing this for real it seems very important to me that the software is actually building the kitchen with cabinets that exist from a specific cab manufacturer instead of just generic cabinets, cause once you get around to converting the drawings to a cabinet order, why would you want to have to rely on interpreting it, or keeping track of what you can't order cause the cabinet line you are now using doesn't make a cabinet like that.

It's my understanding 20/20 lets you download a cabinet makers line into it so you are designing with actual cabinets you can then order.

I've never used the program but every cabinet dealer who I have ordered from does.

What I have always seen with 20/20 is the person using it having to do work arounds all the time during designing the kitchen. It seems like it's more often then not that the designer is always saying something like "Don't know why it doesn't show the toe kick.... the glass door... the crown..."

I don't know if it's the program lacking or the user lacking.

Since a software package used to design kitchens in a kitchen design company is basically the basis for the business to operate from the ROI should be 10,000% to infinity. It's like a trimmer asking if there would be a good ROI on a compound miter saw or a framer asking what the ROI would be on purchasing a nail gun.

**KentWhitten** · 10-03-2007, 11:13 PM

What I was telling you is that it is possible to do exactly what you say you want to do with autocad, revit, archicad, 3ds max, etc., the problem or difference lies in you making the cabinet family yourself and having it work for you. I have done this successfully in Revit and it's quite easy, but time consuming also. It exports to 3ds max and while I'm not trying to bash 2020, 3ds max can give you stunning results as well as the free modeling programs out there where 2020 will not be as friendly or quick. it might not be necessary to you.

I'm not trying to sway anyone, just trying to educate is all. 2020 is great that you have the library, but once you dig in 3ds max, there is no comparison to the public support between the two companies. Autodesk is king for a reason. they put to shame 2020 as far as modeling and rendering capabilities, even though I've seen great results from 2020.

I can design cabinets with door options, box widths, colors, materials list, hardware, the whole nine yards and have options to quickly change from one style to another in a matter of seconds and I'm sure cole will say that archicad will do the same thing.

On a side note, these cabinets I just installed had a website design program so you didn't have to buy anything as long as you obviously bought cabinets from them.

fathersonfab · 10-04-2007, 11:48 AM

Framerman,

I understand that I can do the design and layout with virtually any program. The possibilities and endless and the final rendering will probably be better with 3DS Max too, with global lighting and realistic materials, etc.

But that's not what I'm looking for. Like Mike Finley said, I want to design a kitchen using cabinets that a customer chose from a catalog, say for instance, KraftMaid.

With 20/20 or Fusion, I can pick the brand, model number, finish, door pattern, etc. When the design is finished, I will have a purchase order with the exact number of cabinets, with part numbers, hardware list, and type of finish, and all I have to do is fax it to KraftMaid and I'm done.

I've worked with AutoCAD and 3DS max before, and it would take months to build each size cabinet for every different manufacturer, and even then, I'd still have to look through their catalog and order each cab seperatly. Or maybe you found a quicker way to do it.

My goal in all this is to get as much of my business automated as possible and minimize manual labor.

I'd like to see other reviews from users of 20/20 or Fusion.

**Cole** · 10-04-2007, 12:44 PM

How much is 20/20?

Are you just focusing on Kitchens?

If so, I think 20/20 would be great for you.

I can do everything that 20/20 can do plus more with ArchiCAD and its use of GDL objects.

**KentWhitten** · 10-04-2007, 01:07 PM

2020 is fine and good. I was just giving options. Revit does every thing you said you want it to do and more, with industry backing by way, way more people that 2020. It would take me a week to make one cabinet family that has every single option you could ever possibly need and it would design a kitchen in a blazing amount of speed compared to 2020. It will give you materials list, finishes, sizing options, brand.....anything you want. And the added rendering options is only a bonus along with capability to design an addition or home or skyscraper if you wanted. All for the same price as 2020.

Good and bad with both, just supplying you with options.

fathersonfab · 10-04-2007, 01:41 PM

Yes, I only plan on doing kitchen and baths. Not room additions, etc.
20/20 is about $3000 - $5000 (I think), planIt Fusion is about $2800 for the basic version.

I have a question. Let's say you design a kitchen layout in ArchiCAD or Revit. Are you custom building the cabs yourself?

If you order them from a manufacturer, How do you transform the design into a cabinet order and how do you know they will have the sizes and style you designed?

And by the way, I'm not planning on building any of my own boxes. I'm going to do semi-custom kitchens all from major manufacturers, (KraftMade, Thomasville, etc)
The goal here is to develop a system that can be replicated over and over, no matter the size or style of the kitchen. I'll take any advice or input in that regard.

**KentWhitten** · 10-04-2007, 03:34 PM

You only "build" it once

ArchiCAD (I think at least) and Revit makes what you would consider blocks (from autocad terminology). In Revit, you make one cabinet, box, filler, whatever you want/need. Say for instance a simple base cabinet. This one cabinet "block" can contain any width, height, length, color, finish, parts list, hardware, cabinet manufacturer, face style, number of drawers, and so on. And I believe the newer versions of autocad have this type of parametric block. You don't need file after file after file of "blocks" like old autocad. Just one or two, or whatever.

The downside is that you have to "build" your families and template file, or buy them, and I'd be surprised if someone out there hasn't done this already and has it for sale. When you place them one the drawing, it's click, click, click, option, click, click...poof, kitchen.

They move something, ask for a redraw, move one cabinet, done. everything stretches, or moves accordingly. a simple export to dwg, import to 3ds max with vray, 10 second render and you can get one gnarly looking 3d view.

I'm not saying it's the greatest thing on earth. It takes time to make the "blocks" and learn the program and to set up template files. BUT...if you get to know the program and learn it well, it's a rocket. You can also get the 3d models of appliances and import them for realistic views...even if it's in b&w.

But I'm still not saying anything bad about 2020, just giving my opinion. I've been designing and doodling for 20+ years and 2020 is just like autocad, revit, archicad, etc but just specifically for kitchens. it works the same for decks. Revit is flexible between construction types.

If I get some time this weekend, I'll try putting something together for you to see. I've recently reformatted and have been busy with my other jobs to really sit down and have some time to play around again.

**Cole** · 10-04-2007, 03:50 PM

I have to add, this is not something you would pick up overnight. It will take you months / years to get comfortable with commands etc...

You get what you put into it.

Jack Rafter · 10-04-2007, 04:15 PM

Why would you want to spend $3000.00- 4,000.00 or 5,000.00 on software when you can have one of the best programs out there for free?

Try http://www.ecabinetsystems.com/

You can produce drawing like this:
And full cut list as well. . . .

**KentWhitten** · 10-04-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole

I have to add, this is not something you would pick up overnight. It will take you months / years to get comfortable with commands etc...

You get what you put into it.

You're right on there Cole. It's not easy.

That's a fine looking kitchen there Joe.

fathersonfab · 10-04-2007, 04:41 PM

I appreciate your input, but I think you guys are missing the point. I don't want a cut list, I don't want to build cabinets.

I want to sit with a customer while they are looking at a manufactures catalog and design their kitchen with them in 20 - 30 minutes. After the design is done I want to know exactly how many cabinets i have, toe kicks, crown molding, hardware, etc. have a price estimate in hand and fax it that same day to the manufacturer.

Ecabinetsystems is only for cut lists.

**KentWhitten** · 10-04-2007, 05:04 PM

hahahaha, oh man, no, I'm sorry if I've confused you, but it CAN give you a cut list if you want, but I know you don't want that. You want a PO of cabinets and accessories with something that says

15" drawer base - 1
36" sink base - 1
toe kick - 15 lf
2¼" crown - 30 lf (4 pieces)

manufacturer - kraftmaid
door style - raised panel
finish - semi-gloss white

print to a form for faxing/email, snailmail

etc.

and it will give you a price of what you input for these items.

And Revit/ArchiCAD/AutoCAD/2020.....all these can do what you are saying. Hell, while I'm at it now that I think of it, Rhino is an awesome program too for this and way cheaper. Not sure about the PO abilities though.

fathersonfab · 10-04-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by framerman

hahahaha, oh man, no, I'm sorry if I've confused you, but it CAN give you a cut list if you want, but I know you don't want that. You want a PO of cabinets and accessories with something that says

15" drawer base - 1
36" sink base - 1
toe kick - 15 lf
2¼" crown - 30 lf (4 pieces)

manufacturer - kraftmaid
door style - raised panel
finish - semi-gloss white

print to a form for faxing/email, snailmail

etc.

and it will give you a price of what you input for these items.

And Revit/ArchiCAD/AutoCAD/2020.....all these can do what you are saying. Hell, while I'm at it now that I think of it, Rhino is an awesome program too for this and way cheaper. Not sure about the PO abilities though.

HHmmmm.... interesting. OK, I think in getting it. I'll look into that a bit more...
With these programs... can you sit with a client and bang out a rough design in a few minutes?

Mike Finley · 10-04-2007, 05:46 PM

Not to Poo Poo all over these other programs that I know nothing about, but if these other programs you are describing you have to manually create all this, well... that's quite a task to say the least, when you figure a single decent cabinet line probably has about 5000 deviations available in their cabinet options.

If you're talking about a real kitchen/bath company you better forget about anything that isn't made exactly for what you want. Your software is the foundation of the entire company.

This is not a cabinet PO.

Quote:

15" drawer base - 1
36" sink base - 1
toe kick - 15 lf
2¼" crown - 30 lf (4 pieces)

manufacturer - kraftmaid
door style - raised panel
finish - semi-gloss white

It looks more like

1 WFT Windemere Foot
1 BSD36DT Base single drawer double tray
1 B30DDT Double deep trays

The manufacturer needs you to speak their language, they aren't going to interpret what you send them, and if you do try that stuff you'll be eating tons of mis-ordered items.

Your software needs to be much more than pick a cabinet and spit out that cabinet on a PO. It needs to tell you when the cabinet you picked isn't compatible with something in your design, it needs to tell you the cabinet you picked requires you to choose a different inside finish because you have now turned it into a semi custom. It needs to tell you that by choosing a right hand door instead of left you can't order it 42 inches and only 36 cause that's the only way they make it with that option. You need your soft ware to compute linear footages for base, crown, light rails....You need your software to tell you that when the customer wants a double trash can option in the pull out trash can cabinet that you can't order it with ball feet or etc....

I hope you get the idea. It isn't really ever going to be about pick this cabinet, put that one next to it. It's about hmmm, what happens if I need a 36 inch wide double oven cabinet instead of a 30... oh crap it won't let me order that with 2 storage trays, only one and the customer wants 2.

Unless you guys are just going to be doing really basic and cheap kitchens these designs get ridiculously complicated very quickly and with a 6-8 week order to delivery time you can't be making too many mistakes and learning on the job.

Also, you've got to have software that the manufacturer of your cabinets can send you a quarterly update file deleting the discontinued cabinets and accessories and adding new changes to the existing line that quarter. Think about doing that manually across 3 lines with 3 levels of price points! You try to make this all up yourself and you're going to be pulling your hair out and losing a lot of money to mis-orders.

Now I apologize if these other software packages do this, and also cause I realize you are just being given some options. But if 70% of the top 500 kitchen and bath companies nation wide are using software XYZ, it probably stands to reason there is a reason for that. Just keep that in mind. Most designers have a really hard time not making a mistake in a kitchen order with proprietary software. Just imagine what you are setting yourself up for with some sort of work around or manual system.

**KentWhitten** · 10-04-2007, 05:48 PM

yes, you can, but just remember what cole said earlier about getting out of it what you put into it. 2020 I'm sure is ready to go OOTB whereas ArchiCAD and Revit are not. It's either up to you to "build" your block families, or hire/buy some from someone else. I would be confident to say that if I spent the entire week making a cabinet template for Revit, the customer could be looking at a finished design, pricing, rendering, etc. in minutes.

2020 I would assume is like everything else. you would have to tweak it a little here and there for your pricing and other items that would change, but the core is left there.

Stacey · 10-04-2007, 08:20 PM

Hang it up fathersonfab. These guys know way more than either of us.

2020 AND PLANIT DO SOMETHING SPECIFIC - THEY PRICE OUT A CABINET PACKAGE, NO OTHER SOFTWARE THAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED ON THIS THREAD DOES THAT.

Enough already, you can talk about rendering and cut lists all day long. It doesn't matter in this discussion. Fathersonfab is not looking there. He is looking for pricing and packing cabinets for customers. NOT EVERY CABINET MANUFACTURER USES THE SAME PART NUMBER DESIGNATIONS.

Attached is an example of the order that would be sent to the manufacturer.

10-03-2007, 01:57 PM	#1
fathersonfab View Profile fathersonfab Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (221) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: General Contractor / REO Repairs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 221	Kitchen Cabinet Software??? Is anyone using software to layout and design kitchen cabinets? I'm considering using Planit Fusion. It will do a 3D layout of the design and turn it into an estimate and purchase order and has a built in catalog of all the major cabinet manufactures. What are you using for design and estimating for kitchen and bath remodels?

10-03-2007, 04:33 PM	#2
Stacey View Profile Stacey Registered User Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Registered User Trade: Residential Remodeling Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 6	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? Planit and 2020 are the 2 companies that make cabinet software. The software is meant for companies that sell cabinets or make them. 2020 is used by 80% of companies in the US. Planit is mostly used by Canadian and European companies. Both softwares are in the $4000 range per key. The estimate and plans created with cabinet manufacturers have to be with companies you are a dealer for. For example, say you are buying Thomasville cabinets from Home Depot. You would have to be a dealer for Thomasville to get the catalog that is downloaded into Planit or 2020. I know that Planit probably told you that you can get all these cabinet catalogs. But if you are not a dealer for those particular companies, you will not be able to get their catalogs. So the question is: Are you a cabinet dealer (buy direct from the manufacturer)? Second question: Is that manufacturer represented by Planit or 2020? Many years ago we bought into 2020 (back 8 years ago it was only $3000). We were not dealers for any cabinet manufacturers. We bought from our local lumber yard. The yard provided me with 2020 catalogs (minus the pricing) for me to design projects for our design/build company. I would give the lumber yard my order and drawings printed from 2020. The orders went straight to the cabinet manufacturer. Everyone was happy until someone made a mistake. Then who was responsible was always a problem. If you are not a cabinet dealer, you might want to try my old approach. For 3 years now we have become cabinet dealers for 2 companies. One uses 2020 for pricing, the other has their own pricing software seperate from 2020. I'll add some drawings as examples of 2020. They have been reduced in file size, so you probably won't look that good on this website Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

10-03-2007, 08:22 PM	#3
KentWhitten View Profile KentWhitten The Duke Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (10,101) Photos (11) Reviews (4) Projects (2) Toolbox (6) View All Activity The Duke Trade: Cabinet Maker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, Maine Posts: 10,101	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? I agree that 2020 seems to be big in the kitchen design world. There are options to look at, but if you are looking for simple, pimple stuff, the options I would give wouldn't be any different in price than what 2020 is. I personally use revit, cole uses archicad, you can use autocad also...but you have to set it up right. there are 3d rendering programs that will do it also, some are free, but it all depends on some missing information that we don't know about, like your price range, are you doing it for a business, etc. __________________ If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine Salmon Falls Cabinetry

10-03-2007, 08:44 PM	#4
fathersonfab View Profile fathersonfab Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (221) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: General Contractor / REO Repairs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 221	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? I'm familiar with 3D design software, like autoCAD and 3D Studio Max. But I want kitchen design software that can design a whole kitchen in a few minutes and spit out a list of cabinet sizes and place and order via fax or email that same day. In researching I found 20.20 and planIt Fusion are the only two that can do that. So I guess my next question is; is it worth it? Can you give me and reviews of either one, how good is it? Whats the ROI on a $5000 software package?

10-03-2007, 10:03 PM	#5
Mike Finley View Profile Mike Finley Chief Toilet Mover Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (14,078) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Chief Toilet Mover Trade: Bathroom Remodeling Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 14,078	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? If you're doing this for real it seems very important to me that the software is actually building the kitchen with cabinets that exist from a specific cab manufacturer instead of just generic cabinets, cause once you get around to converting the drawings to a cabinet order, why would you want to have to rely on interpreting it, or keeping track of what you can't order cause the cabinet line you are now using doesn't make a cabinet like that. It's my understanding 20/20 lets you download a cabinet makers line into it so you are designing with actual cabinets you can then order. I've never used the program but every cabinet dealer who I have ordered from does. What I have always seen with 20/20 is the person using it having to do work arounds all the time during designing the kitchen. It seems like it's more often then not that the designer is always saying something like "Don't know why it doesn't show the toe kick.... the glass door... the crown..." I don't know if it's the program lacking or the user lacking. Since a software package used to design kitchens in a kitchen design company is basically the basis for the business to operate from the ROI should be 10,000% to infinity. It's like a trimmer asking if there would be a good ROI on a compound miter saw or a framer asking what the ROI would be on purchasing a nail gun. Last edited by Mike Finley; 10-03-2007 at 10:07 PM.

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10-03-2007, 11:13 PM	#6
KentWhitten View Profile KentWhitten The Duke Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (10,101) Photos (11) Reviews (4) Projects (2) Toolbox (6) View All Activity The Duke Trade: Cabinet Maker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, Maine Posts: 10,101	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? What I was telling you is that it is possible to do exactly what you say you want to do with autocad, revit, archicad, 3ds max, etc., the problem or difference lies in you making the cabinet family yourself and having it work for you. I have done this successfully in Revit and it's quite easy, but time consuming also. It exports to 3ds max and while I'm not trying to bash 2020, 3ds max can give you stunning results as well as the free modeling programs out there where 2020 will not be as friendly or quick. it might not be necessary to you. I'm not trying to sway anyone, just trying to educate is all. 2020 is great that you have the library, but once you dig in 3ds max, there is no comparison to the public support between the two companies. Autodesk is king for a reason. they put to shame 2020 as far as modeling and rendering capabilities, even though I've seen great results from 2020. I can design cabinets with door options, box widths, colors, materials list, hardware, the whole nine yards and have options to quickly change from one style to another in a matter of seconds and I'm sure cole will say that archicad will do the same thing. On a side note, these cabinets I just installed had a website design program so you didn't have to buy anything as long as you obviously bought cabinets from them. __________________ If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine Salmon Falls Cabinetry

10-04-2007, 11:48 AM	#7
fathersonfab View Profile fathersonfab Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (221) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: General Contractor / REO Repairs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 221	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? Framerman, I understand that I can do the design and layout with virtually any program. The possibilities and endless and the final rendering will probably be better with 3DS Max too, with global lighting and realistic materials, etc. But that's not what I'm looking for. Like Mike Finley said, I want to design a kitchen using cabinets that a customer chose from a catalog, say for instance, KraftMaid. With 20/20 or Fusion, I can pick the brand, model number, finish, door pattern, etc. When the design is finished, I will have a purchase order with the exact number of cabinets, with part numbers, hardware list, and type of finish, and all I have to do is fax it to KraftMaid and I'm done. I've worked with AutoCAD and 3DS max before, and it would take months to build each size cabinet for every different manufacturer, and even then, I'd still have to look through their catalog and order each cab seperatly. Or maybe you found a quicker way to do it. My goal in all this is to get as much of my business automated as possible and minimize manual labor. I'd like to see other reviews from users of 20/20 or Fusion.

10-04-2007, 12:44 PM	#8
Cole View Profile Cole Mod / ArchiBuilder Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,611) Photos (1) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Mod / ArchiBuilder Trade: Design/Build Outdoor Living Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ArkLaTexOma Posts: 6,611	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? How much is 20/20? Are you just focusing on Kitchens? If so, I think 20/20 would be great for you. I can do everything that 20/20 can do plus more with ArchiCAD and its use of GDL objects. __________________ Tulsa's Leader in Outdoor Living Construction \| Facebook \| Tulsa Pergola Builder \| Tulsa Outdoor Kitchens

10-04-2007, 01:07 PM	#9
KentWhitten View Profile KentWhitten The Duke Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (10,101) Photos (11) Reviews (4) Projects (2) Toolbox (6) View All Activity The Duke Trade: Cabinet Maker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, Maine Posts: 10,101	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? 2020 is fine and good. I was just giving options. Revit does every thing you said you want it to do and more, with industry backing by way, way more people that 2020. It would take me a week to make one cabinet family that has every single option you could ever possibly need and it would design a kitchen in a blazing amount of speed compared to 2020. It will give you materials list, finishes, sizing options, brand.....anything you want. And the added rendering options is only a bonus along with capability to design an addition or home or skyscraper if you wanted. All for the same price as 2020. Good and bad with both, just supplying you with options. __________________ If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine Salmon Falls Cabinetry

10-04-2007, 01:41 PM	#10
fathersonfab View Profile fathersonfab Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (221) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: General Contractor / REO Repairs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 221	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? Yes, I only plan on doing kitchen and baths. Not room additions, etc. 20/20 is about $3000 - $5000 (I think), planIt Fusion is about $2800 for the basic version. I have a question. Let's say you design a kitchen layout in ArchiCAD or Revit. Are you custom building the cabs yourself? If you order them from a manufacturer, How do you transform the design into a cabinet order and how do you know they will have the sizes and style you designed? And by the way, I'm not planning on building any of my own boxes. I'm going to do semi-custom kitchens all from major manufacturers, (KraftMade, Thomasville, etc) The goal here is to develop a system that can be replicated over and over, no matter the size or style of the kitchen. I'll take any advice or input in that regard.

10-04-2007, 03:34 PM	#11
KentWhitten View Profile KentWhitten The Duke Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (10,101) Photos (11) Reviews (4) Projects (2) Toolbox (6) View All Activity The Duke Trade: Cabinet Maker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, Maine Posts: 10,101	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? You only "build" it once ArchiCAD (I think at least) and Revit makes what you would consider blocks (from autocad terminology). In Revit, you make one cabinet, box, filler, whatever you want/need. Say for instance a simple base cabinet. This one cabinet "block" can contain any width, height, length, color, finish, parts list, hardware, cabinet manufacturer, face style, number of drawers, and so on. And I believe the newer versions of autocad have this type of parametric block. You don't need file after file after file of "blocks" like old autocad. Just one or two, or whatever. The downside is that you have to "build" your families and template file, or buy them, and I'd be surprised if someone out there hasn't done this already and has it for sale. When you place them one the drawing, it's click, click, click, option, click, click...poof, kitchen. They move something, ask for a redraw, move one cabinet, done. everything stretches, or moves accordingly. a simple export to dwg, import to 3ds max with vray, 10 second render and you can get one gnarly looking 3d view. I'm not saying it's the greatest thing on earth. It takes time to make the "blocks" and learn the program and to set up template files. BUT...if you get to know the program and learn it well, it's a rocket. You can also get the 3d models of appliances and import them for realistic views...even if it's in b&w. But I'm still not saying anything bad about 2020, just giving my opinion. I've been designing and doodling for 20+ years and 2020 is just like autocad, revit, archicad, etc but just specifically for kitchens. it works the same for decks. Revit is flexible between construction types. If I get some time this weekend, I'll try putting something together for you to see. I've recently reformatted and have been busy with my other jobs to really sit down and have some time to play around again. __________________ If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine Salmon Falls Cabinetry

10-04-2007, 03:50 PM	#12
Cole View Profile Cole Mod / ArchiBuilder Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,611) Photos (1) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Mod / ArchiBuilder Trade: Design/Build Outdoor Living Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ArkLaTexOma Posts: 6,611	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? I have to add, this is not something you would pick up overnight. It will take you months / years to get comfortable with commands etc... You get what you put into it. __________________ Tulsa's Leader in Outdoor Living Construction \| Facebook \| Tulsa Pergola Builder \| Tulsa Outdoor Kitchens

10-04-2007, 04:15 PM	#13
Jack Rafter View Profile Jack Rafter Roofing Framing Guru Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (58) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Roofing Framing Guru Trade: Cabinet Maker Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 58	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? Why would you want to spend $3000.00- 4,000.00 or 5,000.00 on software when you can have one of the best programs out there for free? Try http://www.ecabinetsystems.com/ You can produce drawing like this: And full cut list as well. . . . __________________ http://www.josephfusco.com

10-04-2007, 04:41 PM	#15
fathersonfab View Profile fathersonfab Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (221) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: General Contractor / REO Repairs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 221	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? I appreciate your input, but I think you guys are missing the point. I don't want a cut list, I don't want to build cabinets. I want to sit with a customer while they are looking at a manufactures catalog and design their kitchen with them in 20 - 30 minutes. After the design is done I want to know exactly how many cabinets i have, toe kicks, crown molding, hardware, etc. have a price estimate in hand and fax it that same day to the manufacturer. Ecabinetsystems is only for cut lists.

10-04-2007, 05:04 PM	#16
KentWhitten View Profile KentWhitten The Duke Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (10,101) Photos (11) Reviews (4) Projects (2) Toolbox (6) View All Activity The Duke Trade: Cabinet Maker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, Maine Posts: 10,101	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? hahahaha, oh man, no, I'm sorry if I've confused you, but it CAN give you a cut list if you want, but I know you don't want that. You want a PO of cabinets and accessories with something that says 15" drawer base - 1 36" sink base - 1 toe kick - 15 lf 2¼" crown - 30 lf (4 pieces) manufacturer - kraftmaid door style - raised panel finish - semi-gloss white print to a form for faxing/email, snailmail etc. and it will give you a price of what you input for these items. And Revit/ArchiCAD/AutoCAD/2020.....all these can do what you are saying. Hell, while I'm at it now that I think of it, Rhino is an awesome program too for this and way cheaper. Not sure about the PO abilities though. __________________ If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine Salmon Falls Cabinetry

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10-04-2007, 05:48 PM	#19
KentWhitten View Profile KentWhitten The Duke Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (10,101) Photos (11) Reviews (4) Projects (2) Toolbox (6) View All Activity The Duke Trade: Cabinet Maker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, Maine Posts: 10,101	Re: Kitchen Cabinet Software??? yes, you can, but just remember what cole said earlier about getting out of it what you put into it. 2020 I'm sure is ready to go OOTB whereas ArchiCAD and Revit are not. It's either up to you to "build" your block families, or hire/buy some from someone else. I would be confident to say that if I spent the entire week making a cabinet template for Revit, the customer could be looking at a finished design, pricing, rendering, etc. in minutes. 2020 I would assume is like everything else. you would have to tweak it a little here and there for your pricing and other items that would change, but the core is left there. __________________ If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine Salmon Falls Cabinetry