I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising

**Ed the Roofer** · 01-30-2009, 04:14 AM

As you guys may recall from a short while back, I fell too far behind on the Yellow Page Ad that I was running, due to a combination of events.

Well, I had an idea for an attention getting flier that may sooth the lead generating discrepancy that I would now expect to materialize from the lack of a visible ad in the local publication.

I figure if I make this seem like an official supplement from the Yellow Page people, it just might increase the opening ratio and prompt them to save it for future consideration.

My intention is to wait for the delivery date of the book and then to send out, in a Yellow Envelope, with the Non-Copyrighted "Walking Fingers" Logo on the front face of the envelope and mark it

URGENT!!!
Ooops.....Our Problem Is Your Good Fortune
See The Extremely Valuable
Gift Card Inside

Then, enclosed in the envelope, will be a copy of my ad and a tantalizing discount offer available If They Mention That they received the ad from the Yellow Page Supplement.

I could also include a Gift Card inside of the envelope, along with the ad content that I have previously published.

Oh, and by the way, just in case you are wondering about legalities.....The "Walking Fingers" Logo is one of the biggest corporate Faux Pas ever made. Back in the early 60's when Ameritech came out with that Logo, they neglected to copyright it, so it became Public Domain.

Additionally, I "Believe" that the phrase, "Yellow Pages" is a generic name just like Kleenex is for tissue papers, so I should be able to state things pretty much how I have them currently, with just some minor revisions to be made.

Check out this attachment and let me know what you guys think.

Ed

**Ed the Roofer** · 01-30-2009, 11:49 AM

By the way, even though the price for the Yellow Pages has not been a good cost expenditure, it has kept the phone ringing for continuous work in the past, only predicated upon my desire to get off my azz quicker and write up the proposal while the iron is still hot in the customers mind.

The cost of doing several mass mailings would not even equal one months fees from them and this little gimmick may just get noticed.

So, I would like to hitch a ride with their branding to get seen by a wider audience.

Ed

tin man · 01-30-2009, 01:10 PM

Ed very good job,I am sure you will get calls.It is close to the line ,but if you are right about the trade mark you should be alright.

Stone Mountain · 01-30-2009, 01:15 PM

Ed, I would think you are skating right on the edge. A few years back McDonalds owned a small franchise chain called Boston Chicken (or similar). Boston Pizza was then a smaller startup, and McDonalds went after them. Millions of dollars later, Boston Pizza won, and was able to keep their name. The point is though, they had to spend large to keep it.
In 1990, Lexus Automobiles went after a gun manufacturer, who already had a gun on the market called Lexis. Lexus, which was copywrited later, won.

There have been many instances of this sort of thing, so even though the walking fingers is in the public domain, the YP people have been using it for many years. They probably have what's called an intelectual copyright, even if not registered, so they may be able to cause you grief. In any event, although I like your creative idea, I would check with a good lawyer first.

curapa · 01-30-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone Mountain

Ed, I would think you are skating right on the edge. A few years back McDonalds owned a small franchise chain called Boston Chicken (or similar). Boston Pizza was then a smaller startup, and McDonalds went after them. Millions of dollars later, Boston Pizza won, and was able to keep their name. The point is though, they had to spend large to keep it.
In 1990, Lexus Automobiles went after a gun manufacturer, who already had a gun on the market called Lexis. Lexus, which was copywrited later, won.

There have been many instances of this sort of thing, so even though the walking fingers is in the public domain, the YP people have been using it for many years. They probably have what's called an intelectual copyright, even if not registered, so they may be able to cause you grief. In any event, although I like your creative idea, I would check with a good lawyer first.

I think Ed is safe on this one. There are a few competing phonebooks in my area and all of hem have the same "walking fingers" logo on them. I just checked and the Talking Phonebook has the logo on the cover about twice the size as the Yellow Pages.

Logic · 01-30-2009, 01:51 PM

If you ask me Ed, it's brilliant. Only thing I noticed you being wrong about is Kleenex being a generic term. That is a brand....

**Ed the Roofer** · 01-30-2009, 02:20 PM

The way that I look at this marketing ploy, is that it may only cost me the equivalent of 10% and no more than 20% of what my previous yellow Page billing had previously cost me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone Mountain

Ed, I would think you are skating right on the edge. A few years back McDonalds owned a small franchise chain called Boston Chicken (or similar). Boston Pizza was then a smaller startup, and McDonalds went after them. Millions of dollars later, Boston Pizza won, and was able to keep their name. The point is though, they had to spend large to keep it.
In 1990, Lexus Automobiles went after a gun manufacturer, who already had a gun on the market called Lexis. Lexus, which was copywrited later, won.

There have been many instances of this sort of thing, so even though the walking fingers is in the public domain, the YP people have been using it for many years. They probably have what's called an intelectual copyright, even if not registered, so they may be able to cause you grief.

In any event, although I like your creative idea, I would check with a good lawyer first.

For the very reason mentioned in the first bolded part, I absolutely intend on doing that second bolded statement, just to be sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by curapa

I think Ed is safe on this one. There are a few competing phonebooks in my area and all of hem have the same "walking fingers" logo on them. I just checked and the Talking Phonebook has the logo on the cover about twice the size as the Yellow Pages.

Not only phone books, but the "Internet Yellow Pages", which really is a scam outfit, but none the less, they were penalized for their manipulative, "Check Activation Scams", where they would send a recipient a small dollar amount check and upon the check being endorsed, it bound that party to the Internet Yellow Pages monthly or bi-annually fee.

They have not been cited for their usage of the "Walking Fingers".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logic

If you ask me Ed, it's brilliant. Only thing I noticed you being wrong about is Kleenex being a generic term. That is a brand....

I may be using the term generic, too generically, but the intended point was that once upon a time, when someone asked for a tissue paper, the ONLY brand name that came up was Kleenex. The same thing goes for the word and product, "Aspirin". That actually only belongs to the Bayer Drug Corporation, (not exactly sure what their corporate name really is), but you can request and purchase an "Aspirin", by many manufacturers brand names.

Ed

handyhands · 01-30-2009, 02:51 PM

talk about thinking outside of the box, Ed.

I think it's a great idea.

Skating close to the edge? Maybe,...But either way, coming from a marketing standpoint,...

I think its quite clever indeed.

I'd be very interested in hearing about the calls it generates.

Good luck!

neolitic · 01-30-2009, 03:02 PM

This is maybe just me,
but I absolutely hate
all of the phony-try-to-get-
me-to-believe-it's-something-
it's-not mailings.
They earn an immediate trip
to the round file and no way
I'll ever do business rating.
Your older customers may be
most likely to share this feeling
with me, as they are subjected
every week to "official" looking
Social Security, Medicare, and
various insurance, mortgage,and
credit card scams.

Something to think about.
It would put you in the
scumbucket/scam artist category
in this house.

(Your businesss,
not you personally Ed!

)

**Ed the Roofer** · 01-30-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

This is maybe just me,
but I absolutely hate
all of the phony-try-to-get-
me-to-believe-it's-something-
it's-not mailings.
They earn an immediate trip
to the round file and no way
I'll ever do business rating.
Your older customers may be
most likely to share this feeling
with me, as they are subjected
every week to "official" looking
Social Security, Medicare, and
various insurance, mortgage,and
credit card scams.

Something to think about.
It would put you in the
scumbucket/scam artist category
in this house.

(Your businesss,
not you personally Ed!

)

So be it.

Let's say you are right and use an extremely high "Disgust" factor and say that 10% of all of the pieces get tossed immediately, due to that factor.

Let's further say that 50% will not even get opened or read, prior to going on the journey to the circular file.

That leaves 40% to be read.

Let's now say that 39% of the original group mailed to also has no use for it, so it gets ditched as well.

Now, that leave 1% of all recipients to consider whether or not that should keep this supplement and the generous gift card, or they may even know someone else who has a need for my services.

If only Half of those call in for an evaluation, then the costs, which I will figure out as time comes, down to the penny, so I am using an amplified guess presently, will wind up costing about $40.00 to $50.00 per lead generated.

Not only that, but since they had the motivation to save this particular marketing piece and will be heavily swayed by the gift card discount, it may quite possibly put me in the desirous and enviable position to be the sole contractor selected to make contact with, at least initially, since they will or may not necessarily be using the actual Yellow Page Book, wide opened to all of the other competitors names and offers.

Sounds good to me!!!

Ed

neolitic · 01-30-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

So be it.

Let's say you are right and use an extremely high "Disgust" factor and say that 10% of all of the pieces get tossed immediately, due to that factor.

Let's further say that 50% will not even get opened or read, prior to going on the journey to the circular file.

That leaves 40% to be read.

Let's now say that 39% of the original group mailed to also has no use for it, so it gets ditched as well.

Now, that leave 1% of all recipients to consider whether or not that should keep this supplement and the generous gift card, or they may even know someone else who has a need for my services.

If only Half of those call in for an evaluation, then the costs, which I will figure out as time comes, down to the penny, so I am using an amplified guess presently, will wind up costing about $40.00 to $50.00 per lead generated.

Not only that, but since they had the motivation to save this particular marketing piece and will be heavily swayed by the gift card discount, it may quite possibly put me in the desirous and enviable position to be the sole contractor selected to make contact with, at least initially, since they will or may not necessarily be using the actual Yellow Page Book, wide opened to all of the other competitors names and offers.

Sounds good to me!!!

Ed

Cool!
Just a heads up, something
that may not be on your radar yet.
When you turn 55, someone
shoots up a flare or something
and you start getting a new
class of mail.
When you hit 60, the flood gates
cut loose!
90% of the "official" looking stuff
addressed to Mom is out and out
scam.

Like I said, I don't remember
stuff like this before becoming
"a certain age."

You will find out (eventually

)
how irritating it is.

threaderman · 01-30-2009, 04:21 PM

I think it will definitely be worth the investment,though I am sick of seeing those walking fingers too,they're everywhere.

rbsremodeling · 01-30-2009, 04:35 PM

**** em Go for Ed. I'll put away1K away for your bail fund.

tin man · 01-30-2009, 04:41 PM

I find most advertising irritating,so what,direct mail is shot gun advertising if you can get 1% return these days that is very good,the trick is to get it opened.Ed has a very good letter but first has to get it opened.Maybe stamp Gift Card Enclosed on envelope,AARP Consumer Alert,SweepStakes Claim Form.

Logic · 01-30-2009, 05:00 PM

I actually sold yellow page advertising at one point for an independent, and one of the first things I learned was that the walking fingers were not owned by anyone.....

Logic · 01-30-2009, 05:03 PM

The Yellow Pages Publishers Association (YPPA), the industry's national trade association, says that more than 6,000 directories are now published in the United States. Adding to the confusion, any publisher can use the walking-fingers logo and name "Yellow Pages" since they were not trademarked in the United States by AT&T.

Max Nomad · 01-30-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

As you guys may recall from a short while back, I fell too far behind on the Yellow Page Ad that I was running, due to a combination of events.

Well, I had an idea for an attention getting flier that may sooth the lead generating discrepancy that I would now expect to materialize from the lack of a visible ad in the local publication.

I figure if I make this seem like an official supplement from the Yellow Page people, it just might increase the opening ratio and prompt them to save it for future consideration.
...snip...

Gotta give you a thumbs up for a creative idea, you might want to give second thought to going that route. While on one hand the Yellow pages and "walking fingers" logo are in the public domain, you're running the risk of it backfiring on you from several different directions:

there have been so many "Yellow Pages" scams that you're running a good chance of someone looking at you and your company as possibly being another scam, especially if they call "the Yellow Pages" and find out that they haven't sent out any kind of mailers.

any one of your local Yellow Pages publisher(s) might be prone to have their lawyers hit you with a cease and desist order because they don't want anyone piggybacking on their reputation. It's not a matter of "if" they find out, but "when", especially once someone starts making calls either to verify authenticity or to see what they have to do to get a mailer since they missed the Yellow Pages printing too.

Here's a link to an article talking about a few of the Yellow Pages scams:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...low_pages.html

All in all, good chance it'll be more trouble than its worth.

**Ed the Roofer** · 01-30-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Nomad

Gotta give you a thumbs up for a creative idea, you might want to give second thought to going that route. While on one hand the Yellow pages and "walking fingers" logo are in the public domain, you're running the risk of it backfiring on you from several different directions:

there have been so many "Yellow Pages" scams that you're running a good chance of someone looking at you and your company as possibly being another scam, especially if they call "the Yellow Pages" and find out that they haven't sent out any kind of mailers.

any one of your local Yellow Pages publisher(s) might be prone to have their lawyers hit you with a cease and desist order because they don't want anyone piggybacking on their reputation. It's not a matter of "if" they find out, but "when", especially once someone starts making calls either to verify authenticity or to see what they have to do to get a mailer since they missed the Yellow Pages printing too.

Here's a link to an article talking about a few of the Yellow Pages scams:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/08/yellow_pages.html

All in all, good chance it'll be more trouble than its worth.

I just so happened to have read that very same article and many others last night. Hence, my previous reference to the "Activate Check Scam" put on by "The Internet Yellow Pages".

Ed

Brock · 01-30-2009, 08:05 PM

I think Jello is copyrighted because other packages say "geletan". Q-tips and cotton swabs. Formica and Wilsonart laminate. That's all I got on short notice.

.

tin man · 01-30-2009, 09:00 PM

How about envelope stamped Sexual Transmitted Test Results,Planned Parenthood Past Due,Nambla Dues. The list could go on and on. Ed you got to go for it,get it opened,don't listen to these knee knockers.

01-30-2009, 11:49 AM	#2
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising By the way, even though the price for the Yellow Pages has not been a good cost expenditure, it has kept the phone ringing for continuous work in the past, only predicated upon my desire to get off my azz quicker and write up the proposal while the iron is still hot in the customers mind. The cost of doing several mass mailings would not even equal one months fees from them and this little gimmick may just get noticed. So, I would like to hitch a ride with their branding to get seen by a wider audience. Ed __________________ Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

01-30-2009, 01:10 PM	#3
tin man View Profile tin man Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (164) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: windows and siding Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 164	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising Ed very good job,I am sure you will get calls.It is close to the line ,but if you are right about the trade mark you should be alright.

01-30-2009, 01:15 PM	#4
Stone Mountain View Profile Stone Mountain Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,437) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Outdoor contracting: fences and decks Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,437	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising Ed, I would think you are skating right on the edge. A few years back McDonalds owned a small franchise chain called Boston Chicken (or similar). Boston Pizza was then a smaller startup, and McDonalds went after them. Millions of dollars later, Boston Pizza won, and was able to keep their name. The point is though, they had to spend large to keep it. In 1990, Lexus Automobiles went after a gun manufacturer, who already had a gun on the market called Lexis. Lexus, which was copywrited later, won. There have been many instances of this sort of thing, so even though the walking fingers is in the public domain, the YP people have been using it for many years. They probably have what's called an intelectual copyright, even if not registered, so they may be able to cause you grief. In any event, although I like your creative idea, I would check with a good lawyer first. __________________ Residential Deck Specialist: Vist our Website www.fenceanddeck.ca

01-30-2009, 01:51 PM	#6
Logic View Profile Logic Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (46) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Sunrooms, Basements, Additions & Windows Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 46	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising If you ask me Ed, it's brilliant. Only thing I noticed you being wrong about is Kleenex being a generic term. That is a brand....

01-30-2009, 02:51 PM	#8
handyhands View Profile handyhands Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (538) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: renovations of all kinds Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Coast Posts: 538	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising talk about thinking outside of the box, Ed. I think it's a great idea. Skating close to the edge? Maybe,...But either way, coming from a marketing standpoint,... I think its quite clever indeed. I'd be very interested in hearing about the calls it generates. Good luck!

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01-30-2009, 03:02 PM	#9
neolitic View Profile neolitic Curmudgeon Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (11,707) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Curmudgeon Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do" Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool" Posts: 11,707	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising This is maybe just me, but I absolutely hate all of the phony-try-to-get- me-to-believe-it's-something- it's-not mailings. They earn an immediate trip to the round file and no way I'll ever do business rating. Your older customers may be most likely to share this feeling with me, as they are subjected every week to "official" looking Social Security, Medicare, and various insurance, mortgage,and credit card scams. Something to think about. It would put you in the scumbucket/scam artist category in this house. (Your businesss, not you personally Ed! ) __________________ Put your location in your profile! (Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

01-30-2009, 04:21 PM	#12
threaderman View Profile threaderman Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,178) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Plumbing & Gas Contractor Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Oklahoma city Posts: 1,178	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising I think it will definitely be worth the investment,though I am sick of seeing those walking fingers too,they're everywhere. __________________ Joe ---International Code Council Member Your plumbing & gas specialist proudly serving Oklahoma City OK, Moore, Warr-acres, Norman, Midwest City, Edmond, Bethany, Forest Park

01-30-2009, 04:35 PM	#13
rbsremodeling View Profile rbsremodeling Professional Instigator Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,872) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Professional Instigator Trade: Design Build Remodeling Contractor DC MD Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Washington, DC/ Maryland Posts: 6,872	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising **** em Go for Ed. I'll put away1K away for your bail fund. __________________

01-30-2009, 04:41 PM	#14
tin man View Profile tin man Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (164) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: windows and siding Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 164	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising I find most advertising irritating,so what,direct mail is shot gun advertising if you can get 1% return these days that is very good,the trick is to get it opened.Ed has a very good letter but first has to get it opened.Maybe stamp Gift Card Enclosed on envelope,AARP Consumer Alert,SweepStakes Claim Form.

01-30-2009, 05:00 PM	#15
Logic View Profile Logic Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (46) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Sunrooms, Basements, Additions & Windows Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 46	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising I actually sold yellow page advertising at one point for an independent, and one of the first things I learned was that the walking fingers were not owned by anyone.....

01-30-2009, 05:03 PM	#16
Logic View Profile Logic Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (46) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Sunrooms, Basements, Additions & Windows Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 46	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising The Yellow Pages Publishers Association (YPPA), the industry's national trade association, says that more than 6,000 directories are now published in the United States. Adding to the confusion, any publisher can use the walking-fingers logo and name "Yellow Pages" since they were not trademarked in the United States by AT&T.

01-30-2009, 08:05 PM	#19
Brock View Profile Brock Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (893) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Residential Remodeler Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Midwest Posts: 893	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising I think Jello is copyrighted because other packages say "geletan". Q-tips and cotton swabs. Formica and Wilsonart laminate. That's all I got on short notice. .

01-30-2009, 09:00 PM	#20
tin man View Profile tin man Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (164) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: windows and siding Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 164	Re: I Had A Thought On How To Alleviate My Missed Yellow Page Advertising How about envelope stamped Sexual Transmitted Test Results,Planned Parenthood Past Due,Nambla Dues. The list could go on and on. Ed you got to go for it,get it opened,don't listen to these knee knockers.

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