I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What..

**Ed the Roofer** · 05-18-2009, 09:51 PM

I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, So, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What Types Of Photos Should I Include?

I have an extreme library of other roofs poor installation details and the proper methods of installation from jobs that we did do the Right Way.

Besides the actual photos of the customers roof, just to identify their types of problems. what do you guys think, as far as types of photos, that I should consider using.

I do NOT plan on inundating the customer with too many photos in any proposal for them, but I would like them to get a sense of what does go wrong on a regular basis.

Plus, my wordy descriptions could be shortened down some. As the saying goes, "A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words."

Should I use product comparison after affect photos, to show the errors of other ill considered choices?

Should I use stock photos from product manufacturers, including that in the section where I discuss that particular solution by using that product?

Shoot me back some feedback.

One thing I want, is to K.I.S.S.

I do not want to create a monstrosity for my secretary to configure each and every time.

Thanks,

Ed

A W Smith · 05-18-2009, 09:57 PM

funny you should mention that. I recently started doing that but include a link to their photos on my web site. Not in the proposals itself which I attach as a pdf to their e-mail. I have yet to find a potential lead that doesn't have some sort of an e-mail account. i will pm you an example e-mail i sent a client recently.

i see your pm is full. ill try e-mail

Patrick · 05-18-2009, 09:57 PM

I have ALWAYS hated stock photos. I NEVER use stock photos in any of our pitch books. And I hate it when you go to a website and see stock roofing photos (ED Eh hem eh hem clean up your website) I find a company much more legit when they have their own photos regardless of what they are trying to get across with them.

I would pick maybe 5 common trouble spots, Valleys, vents, chimneys, eaves, cleanup & protection of the house, and show the wrong way, and the write way side by side, and say "now mr homeowner, pick which way you want the job done"

Martin Co · 05-18-2009, 10:02 PM

Ed, I find that using photo's helps tremendously when explaining the problem. When I go out on roof repairs I'll take photo's of the problem and attach them to my proposal with a solution. I always get a great response from the HO and in turn close the deal.

I usually get these types of responses:

HO: We decided to work with you, because you went into greater detail in describing the problem with a picture and offered solutions; without the mumbo jumbo terms we don't understand --nobody else did this for us!

Pictures do say a thousand words...

A W Smith · 05-18-2009, 10:13 PM

Ed:

what you could do is create boiler plate sections on your site with key concerns for example

step Flashing

roof Jacks

kickouts

power ventilator flashing

Starter course (i see this missing in many layover jobs)

drip edge

counter flashing and or chimney flashing with cricket details.

blind valleys that run against walls

insufficient pitch for shingle roofs

types of valleys. open, half open, closed, full weave

dormer flashing

etc

just add a few photos and a description to each web page section and then simply link to each one that applies in the e-mail with your proposal. sort of a check list for all customers. if their roof presents a unique problem set up a new category and include it as only a link in the email.

Mike Finley · 05-18-2009, 10:17 PM

The only photos I'd put in a customers proposal if I was going to put any in it would be of their roof.

If you want to show them horror stories or examples of the right way, those should be done during your first meeting/estimate/measurement or as a leave behind after the 1st meeting and your proposal presentation.

Customers could give a rats ass about any of that stuff once you get to their estimate, all they want at that point is what's about them.

nEighter · 05-18-2009, 10:23 PM

PREVIOUS customers houses ONLY! Are you guys nuts? You are going to give them a way to show other companies.. hey I want an estimate.. here go to www.roofblahblahblah.com.. they are hosting my pics for me

Do what you want to guys but don't give them any more fuel to burn you with.

**Ed the Roofer** · 05-18-2009, 10:26 PM

Yeah, I already take 2-4 dozen photos, but print them out separately, because I never inserted photos into a Word Document before for a proposal purpose, but it doesn't seem that hard to do.

By going over the photos of "Their" Roof with the, and then they realize that no one else went on top of the roof, it does make a statement that they seem to like.

For the ventilation, I would add some manufacturers stuff like the diagramed air flow from Smart Vent for Intake and Exhaust Flow From Shingle Vent II from Air Vent.

Then, I have my own photos of Cor-A-Vent and Cobra Vent from other installers that show how warped and clogged from moss they are and then I can show an 11 year old Shingle Vent II Ridge Vent we installed that still looks brand new.

Mold and rot on the underside of plywood decking and how warped and delaminated it gets from inadequate ventilation.

Key comments from well known sources with their related comments to back up my position could be included too.

I currently use a lot of manufacturers brochures, but the key points from any of those brochures could also be implied at the time that the written analysis discusses that. By doing that, I could bring in a much lighter package, not needing all of the brochures.

So, what types of items do you think would mean the most to the home owner?

Ed

**Ed the Roofer** · 05-18-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A W Smith

Ed:

what you could do is create boiler plate sections on your site with key concerns for example

step Flashing

roof Jacks

kickouts

power ventilator flashing

Starter course (i see this missing in many layover jobs)

drip edge

counter flashing and or chimney flashing with cricket details.

blind valleys that run against walls

insufficient pitch for shingle roofs

types of valleys. open, half open, closed, full weave

dormer flashing

etc

just add a few photos and a description to each web page section and then simply link to each one that applies in the e-mail with your proposal. sort of a check list for all customers. if their roof presents a unique problem set up a new category and include it as only a link in the email.

Good list A.W.

Mike,
why do you think it would not matter to them when discussing their roof, how often times when not done the right way, there project could be subjected to an early demise as well?

NEighter,
I would not identify any other roofing company. The selected photos would be from my accumulated photos I have taken from other jobs before pictures.

Ed

nEighter · 05-18-2009, 10:35 PM

yeah that is what I meant.. if you post their pics to a hosting website though and say.. just go take a look! They will shop you. I used to leave them with a cd of pics (god I was stupid) and wondered why I wouldn't get those jobs. THEN I actually printed the pics in the proposal..

Now I will show them on my laptop ONLY. And say my burner is broke. If they ask me to email them the pics I just say it stays in their file but will figure out a way to burn them so they can have it after the job is done.

**Ed the Roofer** · 05-18-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A W Smith

just add a few photos and a description to each web page section and then simply link to each one that applies in the e-mail with your proposal. sort of a check list for all customers. if their roof presents a unique problem set up a new category and include it as only a link in the email.

What the heck are all those Pipe Boot Flashings doing on the Grand Manor Job near the end of your slide show of photos?

What a Cluster-Fvck

Ed

Mike Finley · 05-18-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

Good list A.W.

Mike,
why do you think it would not matter to them when discussing their roof, how often times when not done the right way, there project could be subjected to an early demise as well?

Ed

I think it is important, but maybe I am mistaken in my assumptions on your presentation. I think now I understand you are presenting your estimate at the initial meeting.

In my mind I aways see the estimate and the 'selling' of your company as two different things to be done separately from each other.

**Ed the Roofer** · 05-18-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I think it is important, but maybe I am mistaken in my assumptions on your presentation. I think now I understand you are presenting your estimate at the initial meeting.

In my mind I aways see the estimate and the 'selling' of your company as two different things to be done separately from each other.

For me, we have to measure the Roofs in the daytime and it is rare that someone is home. If I had to meet them just to measure the roof, I would not get to follow up on more than 50% of the ones I do now.

So, we leave them some good consumer information and a reference list and a "What To Expect Next" letter when we stop out and they are not there.

Then, measure the roof and go back to the office and download the photos and get to doing the calculations and picking out the phrases that apply from my written script in Word.

Now, I would like to add good vs. bad photos plus their own photos in a several page add on.

Ed

dkillianjr · 05-18-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

What the heck are all those Pipe Boot Flashings doing on the Grand Manor Job near the end of your slide show of photos?

What a Cluster-Fvck

Ed

I could be wrong, but I believe they are for solar panels.

Dave

Mike Finley · 05-18-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

For me, we have to measure the Roofs in the daytime and it is rare that someone is home. If I had to meet them just to measure the roof, I would not get to follow up on more than 50% of the ones I do now.

Ed

Wow, that amazes me that you would be doing that. All my measurements are taken inside somebodies house so as you can imagine we are able to always make an appointment when somebody is home, and that's with never a weekend appointment ever and maybe a handful of appointments after 5:00pm for the entire year.

I miss probably another handful of leads during an entire year who can't re-arrange their schedule to meet us between 9-5. 99% of leads will make time to meet me, even the ones who can't believe I don't do after 5pm appointments or weekends and play the hem and haw game with you after each time you reiterate again and again you can't meet with them at the time they want, they all eventually figure out how to meet you.

I can only imagine how not being able to meet a customer during this initial meeting would be absolutely devastating to our sales, that's the time of building value and selling myself to them, discussing their project as they show you it.

Handymanservice · 05-19-2009, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

Yeah, I already take 2-4 dozen photos, but print them out separately, because I never inserted photos into a Word Document before for a proposal purpose, but it doesn't seem that hard to do.

By going over the photos of "Their" Roof with the, and then they realize that no one else went on top of the roof, it does make a statement that they seem to like.

For the ventilation, I would add some manufacturers stuff like the diagramed air flow from Smart Vent for Intake and Exhaust Flow From Shingle Vent II from Air Vent.

Then, I have my own photos of Cor-A-Vent and Cobra Vent from other installers that show how warped and clogged from moss they are and then I can show an 11 year old Shingle Vent II Ridge Vent we installed that still looks brand new.

Mold and rot on the underside of plywood decking and how warped and delaminated it gets from inadequate ventilation.

Key comments from well known sources with their related comments to back up my position could be included too.

I currently use a lot of manufacturers brochures, but the key points from any of those brochures could also be implied at the time that the written analysis discusses that. By doing that, I could bring in a much lighter package, not needing all of the brochures.

So, what types of items do you think would mean the most to the home owner?

Ed

Hey Ed,

Have you tried Picasa? You can upload all of the photos to your desktop or the web.

What is cool about Picasa, you can insert a caption, export everything to a photo sheet and determine what size photos you want, then print to PDF to include with your proposal.

I would only include the customers roof for the bad and then examples of what good looks like from other photos.
I would try to keep the photos until you sign the contract, then they could have them.

Mike(VA) · 05-19-2009, 07:43 AM

Ed, what are you selling? Is it your expertise in dealing with past installation problems, is it your ability to install a roof properly so they don't have problems, or is it your skill at making a roof look pretty? Whatever pictures you use should relate to your selling points only or the needs your customer described. All the rest are immaterial.

It is also telling that Mike Finley is the only one who actuall read what you wrote, even if it was ambiguous. You asked for ideas for photos to add to proposals but then you and everyone started to discuss how to use photos in the pre-proposal process. When you are at the proposal stage in most businesses, every question should have been answered, even price to some degree.

I know you usually have only one shot to get it right if the customer is not home when you measure. However, any photos you do leave should be with the consumer information left at the first visit. Tailor some photo sets, pre-printed, that correspond to the needs you determined from the lead or that go with your selling points. If you feel that photos at the 'presentation' are still useful, bring your laptop and have your photos grouped by need and only show them those that are relevent.

Roofman20033 · 05-19-2009, 07:11 PM

MIKE FINLEY you are spot on!

Hey check your messages!

MEL · 05-26-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, So, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What Types Of Photos Should I Include?

I have an extreme library of other roofs poor installation details and the proper methods of installation from jobs that we did do the Right Way.

Besides the actual photos of the customers roof, just to identify their types of problems. what do you guys think, as far as types of photos, that I should consider using.

I do NOT plan on inundating the customer with too many photos in any proposal for them, but I would like them to get a sense of what does go wrong on a regular basis.

Plus, my wordy descriptions could be shortened down some. As the saying goes, "A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words."

Should I use product comparison after affect photos, to show the errors of other ill considered choices?

Should I use stock photos from product manufacturers, including that in the section where I discuss that particular solution by using that product?

Shoot me back some feedback.

One thing I want, is to K.I.S.S.

I do not want to create a monstrosity for my secretary to configure each and every time.

Thanks,

Ed

You should not put any photos in the proposal.

The proposal should be as short as possible and only contain a written description of what your are providing.

05-18-2009, 09:51 PM	#1
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, So, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What Types Of Photos Should I Include? I have an extreme library of other roofs poor installation details and the proper methods of installation from jobs that we did do the Right Way. Besides the actual photos of the customers roof, just to identify their types of problems. what do you guys think, as far as types of photos, that I should consider using. I do NOT plan on inundating the customer with too many photos in any proposal for them, but I would like them to get a sense of what does go wrong on a regular basis. Plus, my wordy descriptions could be shortened down some. As the saying goes, "A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words." Should I use product comparison after affect photos, to show the errors of other ill considered choices? Should I use stock photos from product manufacturers, including that in the section where I discuss that particular solution by using that product? Shoot me back some feedback. One thing I want, is to K.I.S.S. I do not want to create a monstrosity for my secretary to configure each and every time. Thanks, Ed __________________ Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 05-18-2009 at 09:53 PM.

05-18-2009, 09:57 PM	#2
A W Smith View Profile A W Smith Al Smith Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,392) Photos (20) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Al Smith Trade: Home Improvement contractor since 1983, In building field since 1974, Licensed Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: South River NJ Posts: 2,392	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. funny you should mention that. I recently started doing that but include a link to their photos on my web site. Not in the proposals itself which I attach as a pdf to their e-mail. I have yet to find a potential lead that doesn't have some sort of an e-mail account. i will pm you an example e-mail i sent a client recently. i see your pm is full. ill try e-mail __________________ Al Smith http://www.awsmith.com Last edited by A W Smith; 05-18-2009 at 10:02 PM.

05-18-2009, 09:57 PM	#3
Patrick View Profile Patrick Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,761) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Siding, Windows, Seamless Gutters, Metal Roofing Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,761	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. I have ALWAYS hated stock photos. I NEVER use stock photos in any of our pitch books. And I hate it when you go to a website and see stock roofing photos (ED Eh hem eh hem clean up your website) I find a company much more legit when they have their own photos regardless of what they are trying to get across with them. I would pick maybe 5 common trouble spots, Valleys, vents, chimneys, eaves, cleanup & protection of the house, and show the wrong way, and the write way side by side, and say "now mr homeowner, pick which way you want the job done" __________________ Originally Posted by Celtic Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

05-18-2009, 10:02 PM	#4
Martin Co View Profile Martin Co Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (208) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: General Contractor Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 7 oakledge rd. Wakefield, Ma. Posts: 208	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. Ed, I find that using photo's helps tremendously when explaining the problem. When I go out on roof repairs I'll take photo's of the problem and attach them to my proposal with a solution. I always get a great response from the HO and in turn close the deal. I usually get these types of responses: HO: We decided to work with you, because you went into greater detail in describing the problem with a picture and offered solutions; without the mumbo jumbo terms we don't understand --nobody else did this for us! Pictures do say a thousand words... __________________ ma siding contractor - residential shingle roofing deck builders ma - Home improvement blog contractors directory

05-18-2009, 10:13 PM	#5
A W Smith View Profile A W Smith Al Smith Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,392) Photos (20) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Al Smith Trade: Home Improvement contractor since 1983, In building field since 1974, Licensed Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: South River NJ Posts: 2,392	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. Ed: what you could do is create boiler plate sections on your site with key concerns for example step Flashing roof Jacks kickouts power ventilator flashing Starter course (i see this missing in many layover jobs) drip edge counter flashing and or chimney flashing with cricket details. blind valleys that run against walls insufficient pitch for shingle roofs types of valleys. open, half open, closed, full weave dormer flashing etc just add a few photos and a description to each web page section and then simply link to each one that applies in the e-mail with your proposal. sort of a check list for all customers. if their roof presents a unique problem set up a new category and include it as only a link in the email. __________________ Al Smith http://www.awsmith.com

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05-18-2009, 10:17 PM	#6
Mike Finley View Profile Mike Finley Chief Toilet Mover Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (14,078) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Chief Toilet Mover Trade: Bathroom Remodeling Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 14,078	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. The only photos I'd put in a customers proposal if I was going to put any in it would be of their roof. If you want to show them horror stories or examples of the right way, those should be done during your first meeting/estimate/measurement or as a leave behind after the 1st meeting and your proposal presentation. Customers could give a rats ass about any of that stuff once you get to their estimate, all they want at that point is what's about them.

05-18-2009, 10:23 PM	#7
nEighter View Profile nEighter Smart phone? Scan me! Send Message Follow Blogs (1) Threads (2,118) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Smart phone? Scan me! Trade: Painting/Framing/Drywall Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: tWiliGht zOne Posts: 2,118	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. PREVIOUS customers houses ONLY! Are you guys nuts? You are going to give them a way to show other companies.. hey I want an estimate.. here go to www.roofblahblahblah.com.. they are hosting my pics for me Do what you want to guys but don't give them any more fuel to burn you with.

05-18-2009, 10:26 PM	#8
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. Yeah, I already take 2-4 dozen photos, but print them out separately, because I never inserted photos into a Word Document before for a proposal purpose, but it doesn't seem that hard to do. By going over the photos of "Their" Roof with the, and then they realize that no one else went on top of the roof, it does make a statement that they seem to like. For the ventilation, I would add some manufacturers stuff like the diagramed air flow from Smart Vent for Intake and Exhaust Flow From Shingle Vent II from Air Vent. Then, I have my own photos of Cor-A-Vent and Cobra Vent from other installers that show how warped and clogged from moss they are and then I can show an 11 year old Shingle Vent II Ridge Vent we installed that still looks brand new. Mold and rot on the underside of plywood decking and how warped and delaminated it gets from inadequate ventilation. Key comments from well known sources with their related comments to back up my position could be included too. I currently use a lot of manufacturers brochures, but the key points from any of those brochures could also be implied at the time that the written analysis discusses that. By doing that, I could bring in a much lighter package, not needing all of the brochures. So, what types of items do you think would mean the most to the home owner? Ed __________________ Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

05-18-2009, 10:35 PM	#10
nEighter View Profile nEighter Smart phone? Scan me! Send Message Follow Blogs (1) Threads (2,118) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Smart phone? Scan me! Trade: Painting/Framing/Drywall Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: tWiliGht zOne Posts: 2,118	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. yeah that is what I meant.. if you post their pics to a hosting website though and say.. just go take a look! They will shop you. I used to leave them with a cd of pics (god I was stupid) and wondered why I wouldn't get those jobs. THEN I actually printed the pics in the proposal.. Now I will show them on my laptop ONLY. And say my burner is broke. If they ask me to email them the pics I just say it stays in their file but will figure out a way to burn them so they can have it after the job is done.

05-19-2009, 07:43 AM	#17
Mike(VA) View Profile Mike(VA) Custom Stuff Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (859) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Custom Stuff Trade: General Contractor - Custom Renovations Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 859	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. Ed, what are you selling? Is it your expertise in dealing with past installation problems, is it your ability to install a roof properly so they don't have problems, or is it your skill at making a roof look pretty? Whatever pictures you use should relate to your selling points only or the needs your customer described. All the rest are immaterial. It is also telling that Mike Finley is the only one who actuall read what you wrote, even if it was ambiguous. You asked for ideas for photos to add to proposals but then you and everyone started to discuss how to use photos in the pre-proposal process. When you are at the proposal stage in most businesses, every question should have been answered, even price to some degree. I know you usually have only one shot to get it right if the customer is not home when you measure. However, any photos you do leave should be with the consumer information left at the first visit. Tailor some photo sets, pre-printed, that correspond to the needs you determined from the lead or that go with your selling points. If you feel that photos at the 'presentation' are still useful, bring your laptop and have your photos grouped by need and only show them those that are relevent. __________________ __________________________________________________ ___________ I EXPECT THAT SOMEDAY I WILL SEE THE FRUITS OF MY LABOR. IS IT SOMEDAY YET? Clifton, Great Falls, McLean, Fairfax Station, Manassas, Virginia Renovation Contractor

05-19-2009, 07:11 PM	#18
Roofman20033 View Profile Roofman20033 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (156) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 156	Re: I Am Adding Photos Into My Proposals, From A Customers Perspective On Roofing, What.. MIKE FINLEY you are spot on! Hey check your messages!

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