Ed the Roofer

I am torn between the dilemma of whether I am providing too much detail in the specifications I provide to new prospective customers.

My specifications and astuteness to even the most microbial of details previously had been a significant "set apart from the other contractor" standard, which I swear has been very successful, up until this season so far.

In my ongoing quest to always develop and enhance my verbage and written proposal, is there finally a point of over saturation? (Yes)

I have had better success, when they are probed to ask questions that they had never even considered prior to meeting with me and seeing the obvious lack of detail or mis-information provided so generically by other "bids", not detailed proposals.

There are some personalities that relish the intricacies of everything, not ever previously comprehending how significant the entire system meshes together for a fully functional life cycle. But alas, that is not the majority of the population, and I am now facing the reality of being too good at what I do, or how I feature our advantages.

As the famed architect, Ludwig Mies van der Rohe declared, "Less Is More".

I am grateful that I keep track of percentage ratios, because this season is only hitting at about 1/4 of my normal conversion ratio of 52 %, so I do have time and the wits to adjust my method of presentation and scale it back a bit, to a similar profile of my past successful adaptions.

I really don't know2 if I am writing about this right now, just to vent, or to get some advice, or to recieve some constructive feedback, but which ever version of response occurs, it will be appreciated.

I think that too much written specifications takes away from the enthusiastic personal charm about how I describe how we eagerly provide solutions to ALL of their problems, so therefor, onward to reverse engineering my presentations once again. I guess I will be moving forward, by taking a slight step back on the written phraseology, so in a short time, the results will demonstrate themselves to me.

Good Night,

Ed

woodmagman

You can list the items that are being done in the project as a broad view specification and then bring out the detailed specifiation when you get the o.K. and they go from prospect to customer........

Gordo

Ed. Its not you. Its the market. Everyone (for the most part) is taking a breather.

I do have an idea to increase profits. Drop all your insurances, accept cash only, and use the cheapest materials.

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Looks like some pros were here.

MattCoops

the market is fine
no one is really taking a breather
you just have to really work on Closing more sales

It's good to give detail.
But don't go too much into it.
And give a reason for talking about the detail.
"We fold the valley this way to direct water away from the roof and prevent leaks and snow buildup"

Get them to understand how your work will benefit them.
What do I get out of this?

Pay more attention to detail in closing them.
Listen to what they want, answer it, then reiterate during the close.
You're a better salesman by the more ways you know how to close.

reveivl

I think you've got to tailor it to the individual customer, some will appreciate and be interested in the details, others, their eyes will glaze over and you've lost them.

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"Too much is always better than not enough"--J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

Mike Finley

Ed - remember that post I made about the 3 ways that people react with the world?

I prepare detailed proposals for everyone, sometimes I go over them with the customer in great detail, sometimes they are just a frame work and we just 'talk', with some customers we spend more time in the actual bathroom pointing out, talking and measuring.

Is it possible for you to be more adaptive to the different types of people you face?

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Ed the Roofer

Yeah Mike,

That is sort of the initial thought process i am gong through.

I posed this question in regards to a very eloquently detailed, actually exhaustingly in every minutia, that Sonly Lykos had posted last night on JLC regarding the procedure to mount a railing, which the HO inquired if the $ 228.00 fee was too high and could he do it himself?

The man is a preacher when it comes to customer loyalty and eventually they become customer disciples of his.

I am trying to tune a different channel for different prospective customers and see how well it works out.

By the way, I posted an interesting Behavioral Article last night which may go hand in hand with your 3 types thread.

Thanks everybody.

Ed

POOLMANinCT

well not scientific advice...
ask to take a look in their attic, I hired the guy that wanted to check my attic out... the other guy said "nah I don't need to go up there"

btw I paid the guy who checked out my attic $1200 more, for the same materials & scope of work.....

yes off thread, but checking my attic & follow up sold me...

I'm not a hard sell, just show me you have your act together.

ray

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......Less with the jaw & More with the paw.....

MattCoops

yea, stinks making your way through a crawl space in pants and a dress shirt to check out the spacing of floor joists under a kitchen floor tile estimate

PressurePros

Ed,

I'm the same way you are and many customers have mentioned "your proposal was very detailed and broke everything down, we liked that". Others, by their very questions made it obvious they did not read over the details. I now provide an FAQ sheet for quick perusing.

I know nothing about roofs. But, I am a technical person and I like to be educated. My other half goes more by emotion. My brother just wants to know what's in it for him. You can personalize a letter utilizing a Feature/ Advantage/ Benefit tone to make sweeping statements and then have the details in your proposal. I think you will satisfy everyone that way.

"Mr and Mrs F , for your roof you mentioned wanting a shingle that was durable. In your quote you will see I chose Ultra Shingle for your project. Ultras are a premium quality shingle that will meet your needs while not breaking your budget. You'll have a roof that sings with curb appeal and will not fade. Since the shingle outlasts almost everything on the market, you'll save money over future replacement."

__________________
Ken Fenner
Pressure Washing PA
Ipe Deck Cleaning
Cleaning Contractors

POOLMANinCT

good work pressure pro!!!!

__________________
......Less with the jaw & More with the paw.....

Ed the Roofer

Renee2007

Ken is right on the money. You do need to tailor to the customer. However, your win ratio IS affected by the economy. While things are still cooking in some areas of the U.S. it is in general slowing down. We are in Michigan where the foreclosure rate is one of the highest in the nation. People are not selling their homes and are losing their jobs so of course that affects us as well. We have been fortunate to hang on with our bare nails and are hoping for a turn around soon.

Ed the Roofer

Well,

Todays icing on the cake was, a couple I met with Thursday evening for them to pay for a new roof and gutters for the wifes Mothers home.

The entire presentation and Q & A went nearly as perfect as I could have asked for, by the way.

The husband owns his own plumbing contracting company with 27 employees and was as anal as I would like to be regarding every single detail. He was showering my entire approach with glorified earnest praise. He actually got excited and boasted to his wife how well thought out and detailed and precise everything was, from job diagram measurements, to proposal specifications, to actual line item calculations, even for any supposed unknown criteria, which he wound up asking about too.

I just could not get an agreement until he was to scoot by the next evening or on Saturday, (earlier today), to check and see if the color I suggested would be as ideal as he believed.

I even provided for a very substantial discount on the plywood deck sheathing replacement costs, which were a minimum of 1,600 square feet and minorly a potential to be the entire 2,400 square feet, provided that a decision were to be made that evening to fill in one of the upcoming gaps in our schedule at the end of next week or two weeks later. Upon realizing that he would insist on going to the moms house to visualize the projects color scheme, I allowed the discounted time to run until today. I even knocked off about 16 % on the gutters to enable a fuller scope of work being done at the same time.

Friday, I contacted him to see if he wanted me to bring several of the actual colored shingles to Moms home for a better assesment of our feelings. He said he would not be able to get there until Saturday now and that would not be necessary. He was supremely confident on my recomendation made. I requested if I should recontact him later on during the day on Saturday then and he said absolutely.

I quoted this one at a discounted margin, neglecting my own commission even, and topped off the 2 day special offering with a 50 % reduction on the remainder of the plywood replacement, which would have been at actual material and labor cost for that portion.

During the first appointment, just prior to leaving, the wife even stated to her husband, that she knew that I was going to be the most professional and detailed based upon her initial phone contact with me.

Okay, I call today for the requested follow through and got politely told that they decided to go in a different direction. Upon inquiring why, he stated that even though I had everything that he wanted included and covered, one other guys price was just too much lower to resist even though he would have preferred to have more provided. This time his tune was more like, well, its only my mother in-laws home and she will not be in that home for much longer.

I just hate it, especially when I felt that this one was truly on board and actually felt like it was in the bag.

I don't know if he was just putting up a good front in front of his wife during our initial appointment. (I do not think so)

We had excellent eye contact and communication which went extremely favorable.

They both seemed truly and sincerely sold on the features and the values being offered.

Is it just a , "Well sometimes some of them get away and you lose, Ed" situation?

Or, did I neglect something?

Oh, and by the way, I had at least 5-8 during presentation trial closes to assure we were continually in agreement, which we were.

I have been missing out on just about everything lately and am trying to work through it until the scales rebalance, but need to take immediate action to avert a full scale disaster, which I am not over-dramatizing.

Ed

dougchips

The text book answer would be that you did not sell value. You failed him, his wife and his mother in law.....how can you sleep? With your price drops your were trying to sell on price and lost focus of the value.

We all fail other peoples clients from time to time, we learn from our mistakes and move on. When I miss a sale I spend as much time as possible asking questions to find out where I failed.

BTW, some people are just cheap<---good excuse when we fail to sell them value.

__________________
To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

Ed the Roofer

Thats a decent enough, "get over it and go on to the next pursuit" commentary, but,

(I hate it whenever anyone uses the word "but", because it invariably seems to be a self manipulation of the facts to form a self indulgent excuse),

but, I did not leave there feeling that I missed out on any aspect of the presentation. Obviously, I am wrong!

This one was the best or second best feeling of completeness of a solid presentation, that I had provided this entire season so far.

Oh, yeah. I will get on with the next one. The attitude will be properly in tune. I will take a few steps back in the written portion of the presentation and defer to my more enthusiastic Q & A approach, which entices substantial commaradery between the homeowner and myself and the values bestowed within our complete package.

Just one more time. But..........

Ed

dougchips

The "move on" thing was me being soft. You can deliver a killer presentation without selling value to the two people in front of you. The consumer needs to need in order for a sale to be made, in other words he has to say "I need Ed's roof and only Ed's roof". To quote someone "I would be a fool to do business with anyone else". (quote might be off by a few words).

When or if you ask "is my company the company that you trust to do you roof + are my products the products that you want on you roof", do you get the feeling that they know that they would be fools to use another product or company?

I try to kill the low price guys (not by name) during my presentation and get a commitment that they do not want the low price. Some people only care about price, doing the job twice and living with headaches<--these are the people that we fail to sell value.

Every missed sale is another contractors client that I let down (failed).

__________________
To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

Ed the Roofer

I believe that God does not have, in his plan for me, any allowance to make mistakes.

He does though, offer me the opportunity to be presented with "Learning Experiences".

I will continually attempt to "Learn" from these presented "Learning Experiences" in life, as long as they are presented, with the aid and support of some very qualified and valued friends.

Now, with an attitude like that; How can I miss?

Truthfully, I don't see where and how I missed, but the answer must be oblivious to me, yet so clear to others.

Time to wind down for the night.

Thanks,

Ed

P.S. The quote was close enough. I'll read and write some more tomorrow.

dougchips

Ed, I generaly will write down why I lost a sale and then ask others to get their feedback. I'm on a 1000 year plan to close a 100 percent. Since you mentioned god....WWJD? Answer= he would close them so they are tempted by a low price and a bad job.

I don't have the sack to use that in a house..."Mr&Mrs Jones, I fear having to answer to god why I let you folks down and you were tempted by the low price guy....."

__________________
To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

Ed the Roofer

He would tell them to hire The "Carpenter" instead of a roofer, because He knows all that shall ever be and what would ever need to be.

Ed