How do you run your estimate, what do you give the customer and when? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

starcontractor · 03-12-2009, 08:57 PM

Hello all.

I've been reading the forum for a few months and have decided to post a question.

I've been in the painting business for many years. I've done my own estimates and am always on-site painting. Usually I have 2 painters assisting me.

I'm expanding my business a little into estimating vinyl and aluminum replacement windows. I have a good friend who's been running an installation crew (as a subcontractor for a saleman) for nearly 20 years. He's a true professional and I've been tagging along on a few jobs for the last few months to learn the basics of the trade. He will handle the work when I sell jobs, but I'd like to eventually run the whole operation myself. I think I know enough to estimate.

Anyway, when estimating painting I take a look at everything, make all my measurements and put together an estimate on-site while the customer looks through pictures of previous jobs and reference letters. I have custom carbonless forms so I get 2 copies and the customer gets 1. It works great for me, I have been doing this long enough to not make dumb mistakes.

Now with windows, there are a few complications to my method. There are a lot more factors to deal with in estimating windows. I will have to provide an estimate after meeting the customer via mail.

AS TO MY QUESTION

What do you give a customer when you first meet? What do you show them? I plan to have a sample window or two, but what about the brochures and such? When I do paint estimates the customer gets a folder with the estimate, brochures about the paint (standard stuff you get at Sherwin Williams), a brochure about my company, and a few other things if the customer requests it (like copy of my insurance).

But when I do window estimates, I'm not sure if I should leave customers brochures and all that stuff when I first meet or if I should put it in the envelope when I mail the estimate?

What do you leave the customer with when you meet w/ them? What do you give them after the first meeting? Are there any tips a painting contractor getting into windows that you can offer?

How do you guys run your window estimates, step by step? If any other trades want to chime in, that'd be great too.

I apprecaite any help you guys can offer!

knucklehead · 03-12-2009, 09:26 PM

Stick to what you know.

1mancrew · 03-12-2009, 09:27 PM

Initial meeting - have brochures let customer choose style/grade of windows. Make appointment for return trip. Get your prices together. Know your lead time if windows are not from stock.

Final meeting - run prices by homeowner and hopefully make the sale. Be sure and have contract (not estimate) on hand for this meeting. If they need more time to decide...correspond by phone, not mail.

Mr. Mike · 03-12-2009, 11:08 PM

1mancrew,
The statistics show that 80% of people make a decision to buy a house during there first visit to a house, why would the first visit for home remodeling not be a good time to close the deal in fact I think it would be the best time for this. Being a one call closer I can't help but to ask.

Quote:

If they need more time to decide...correspond by phone, not mail.

Go out to your car and wait for a decision, a No today is more valuable than a no tomorrow. I did that twice today and closed them both.

1mancrew · 03-12-2009, 11:29 PM

My reasoning was since he was selling work for someone else to do...that would give him a chance to run his prices by the installer. Of course that was just to get him started till he learns the business.

Home Services · 03-13-2009, 05:53 AM

I would choose a different business/sideline. In my area the window biz is very competitive & the "old pros" would eat a new guy alive!

There is even one large window company here that is now advertising -

Ready for this...

"We are now partnering with the government to save energy" blah, blah, blah...

DavidC · 03-13-2009, 07:36 AM

First off, you must have overlooked the part about introducing yourself in the first post. It's just polite and we like to know who we are talking to.

Only stick to what you know if your born omniscient (sp?). I wasn't born a speller.

It is a competitive business but then again every business has a niche that needs to be filled. If you can find that the competition won't be so tough for you.

We do residential remodeling and our jobs are a bit more complex than just replacing windows so I would prefer 1mancrews approach. We give the prospect a reference list, copies of insurance certs.,sample proposal and blank contract on the first visit. Any pertinent product literature as well. Second visit we bring a very specific proposal and a contract ready to sign when we close.

On the other hand, Mr. Mike advocates the one visit close. This works well in my view on single product sales. Windows fits the category nicely. You should be able to price a window job on the spot. You should know your materials and labor costs for most cases before you go in. Make yourself a checklist to follow if need be, have a standard proposal/contract ready to go. If you run into a more complex job and need to you can automatically switch to a 2nd visit close.

Good Luck
Dave

IHI · 03-13-2009, 07:47 AM

Depends on your business scope, and it can be broken down as simply as this:

Are you-
A: a business trying to extract every penny a person has no matter what the work entails with little regard to afer the sales/after the install reputation. Can you offer financing to ensure you extract every penny at an inflated rate by snookering these customers with low monthly payments

or

B: a business that is looking to build a repour and solid reputation in town, you know your prices you have to make to be profitable and sustainable so your not concerned with extracting every penny since your setting yourself up for future phone calls when work is needed

Right now i'm glad my grandfather taught me to be fair and keep pricing consistant because i now only need to look around just our area at all the high pressure, 1 stop/1 signature sales places and they are dead, deader than dead with no work for their crews...but they made a killing when they had the chance and times were good. Then I look at myself and the other contractors that do business as i do and think long term, price materials fairly, price labor fairly..I'm swamped into first part of the summer and I'm still 3 weeks away from when my phone starts blowing up for summer work.

So first figure out what you want to do, rob people or build a repour since it will dictate what you will need to do on a first consult. If your going for the kill in one night, you need everything you can get your hands on. If your setting up for long term relationships, just a few broshures and a tape measure is all you need.

handyhands · 03-13-2009, 07:50 AM

Well, first thing I noticed that raised an eyebrow was the fact that you're planning on "mailing" them the estimate? To me, that's a big no-no. Your there to close the deal,.....I know plenty of one call closers, and it's truley an art form, but can also be second nature when perfected. The whole point is to build value in YOU as well as your product. Also keep in mind, if you're planning on going to the local distributor to grab a couple of your typical low-e/ argon windows, keep in mind you could be very well one of 5 guys with the same exact window going into their home, so with that being said, you better find a way to sell YOU and to inform the homeowner why they should choose you rather than the other guy. Also, keep in mind there's some aggressive/ hungry contractors out there, so to be mailing them the price would in my opinion be weakening your chances vs. the competition.

It's nice when you have an "exclusive" window that no one around you has,....Then all you need to know are the "kill-points" to utilize, while making your product stand alone and above the competition out there.

May want to lean towards a window that meets the criteria for the $1500.00 tax credit via the stimulus package as well. Everyone loves free money from the government.

But again, what do I know....

IHI · 03-13-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handyhands

Well, first thing I noticed that raised an eyebrow was the fact that you're planning on "mailing" them the estimate? To me, that's a big no-no. Your there to close the deal,.....I know plenty of one call closers, and it's truley an art form, but can also be second nature when perfected.

I guess this is why our area is unaffected by the economics vs the coastal area, folks here are a slower pace and dont want to be sold, only the people that hav eno money do since they're looking for any help they can get. I've never sold on first visit, and dont ever intend to, i honestly walk into each job not caring one way or another if we sell it or not, i'm going to make myself seem that desperate and high pressure. I measure, give them info, answer any questions, put together a bid and mail it off. If they want it done, they'll call, if they dont, i have plenty of other work to fill whatever void they have. Personally i've set our business up to work off repour, we now have a huge client base that self generates leads, and most jobs are sold before i show up..it's just meeting a budget.

But whatever works i guess is the name of the game, we make a comfortable living, we do what we want when we want, i can call any of the client we have since they're all freinds and that's the way i set this place up and the way it will stay...alot easier to get a little more money per job when your known to be a trustworthy person vs being a high pressure shister IMO..and like mentioned, i only need to look at the big places in town full of high pressure salespukes with nothing on the board while we're back logged to know i must be doing something right. Though i do understand different area's require different tactics.

TRC · 03-13-2009, 09:12 AM

I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD GIVE YOU A LITTLE SUPPORT SINCE YOU ARE LOOKING TO FURTHER EXPAND YOUR BUSINESS. LET ME SAY, CONGRATS. ON TRYING AND BEST OF LUCK, IT'S THE AMERICAN DREAM. I SAY KNOCK EM' DEAD AND YOU ARE ALREADY DOING THE RIGHT THING BY COMING HERE AND DOING SOME RESEARCH FIRST, SO GOOD JOB THERE. AS YOU KNOW, ALL PHASES OF CONSTRUCTION/CONTRACTING CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT SO BE PREPARED TO TAKE A FEW PUNCHES. BUT YOU WILL SHAKE IT OFF, GET BACK UP, LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES, AND TRY AGAIN.

TECHNICALLY, THE MOST DIFFICULT PART FOR A ROOKIE WINDOW GUY IS TO KNOW WHAT THE JOB WILL LOOK LIKE WHEN YOUR DONE, INSIDE AND OUT. AND WITHOUT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE AND SEEING MANY TYPES OF WINDOWS IT WILL BE HARD FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN TO THE HO WHAT TO EXPECT, THIS CAN LEAD TO SOME ISSUES WHEN YOU FINISH: "YOU DIDN'T TELL ME MY BLINDS WOULDN'T FIT BACK ON?" "UMMM...YEAH". YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. SO JUST BE CAREFUL AND UTILIZE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE CREW YOU SAY YOU HAVE AND DO A GOOD JOB.

AGAIN....GOOD LUCK!

CookeCarpentry · 03-13-2009, 02:01 PM

Star - I think it might help if we all knew where you were from - but in my area (mainline suburbs of Philadelphia), vinyl window replacement companies are a dime a dozen...offering all kinds of deals and money back savings, etc...but I have heard nothing but horror stories about open ended contracts, prices not including caulking and capping, no warranty, etc.

I have to side with IHI, as his approach to his business is very similar to mine. I'm not into high pressure, first call sales. If it happens, great, but sometimes I think you can appear too desperate by trying to close so quickly.

I do a fair amount of window replacements (for new and existing customers). Usually, the call, I ask on the phone if they know what kind of window they want (vinyl, wood, casement, etc), and if they do, I show up with two brochures - one outlining the "high" end window and one outlining the "mid-grade". I don't install the lowest option windows.

I know the price per window, can give them a rough verbal estimate, but then go home, crunch the figures, see what the salesman can do for me with figures, and mail them an estimate. Follow up with a call about a week later. If they are still interested, I usually stop by with a full proposal and a sample window to show them what they are getting...and that pretty much seals the deal.

If the customer is undecided on window type, sometimes, if my salesman is in the area, I have him drop off samples the day I am to meet with the custer, but when I know the customer is not home...then they are ready when I arrive. I go over price vs quality and value, etc. Then, if they decide on a window type, give them a rough verbal estimate, go home and write one up, mail it to them, follow it up with a call, etc.

In my opinion, I used to deal with two or three different window companies, I finally found one I liked, built repoir with the sales rep, and deal exclusively with his company...helps on the pricing and turnaround end.

Sorry if this was long, hope it helps.

starcontractor · 03-13-2009, 05:14 PM

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Your comments are very useful. I really appreciate how there are different points of view on the right approach to take. Even though I don't agree with everyone completely, I really do appreciate hearing what works for different people.

I have decided there will be no mailing of anything. While I appreciate the low-pressure approach, I don't think it will work in my market (Chicago). Competition is too fierce here and I need to keep swinging to the very end. That is not to say I want to give the impression that I am too hungry; I think what works for me is using some pressure but making it seem like I am fairly indifferent.

I have also decided I will put together an on-site estimate form for everything but very complex work. I am good at that style of estimating and I went and got detailed price lists from a few manufacturers today. I'll do a few practice estimates and then compare them to what the dealers give me. It's really not that hard, and for a while I can round up to be safe.

I intend to run a reputable operation and to build a good reputation. I am well aware of the $189/window scam and all its various manipulations. One of the ways I sell painting is to drive home the fact that you can hire me now or hire me to fix it later. I think I can use these horror stories to my advantage.

Anyway thanks for everyone's reply. I really appreciate the fact that this community exists and I hope to contribute to it in the future.

Mr. Mike · 03-13-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

One of the ways I sell painting is to drive home the fact that you can hire me now or hire me to fix it later. I think I can use these horror stories to my advantage.

I like the old, you can hire me now and get a wonderful paint job or hire someone else and take a chance.

Mr. Mike · 05-25-2009, 04:06 PM

Glad I re-read this, there is a few diamonds in this rough. Thanks everyone and self for stashing some good stuff in this thread.

CScalf · 05-29-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Home Services

I would choose a different business/sideline. In my area the window biz is very competitive & the "old pros" would eat a new guy alive!

There is even one large window company here that is now advertising -

Ready for this...

"We are now partnering with the government to save energy" blah, blah, blah...

You must be talking about Pitcher, he is a d***** Bag

I really don't like that guy, repaired quite a few of his screw ups, he is a crook! Lot's of his former customers tell me this, oh well...

Ok, back to the subject, sorry.

MOTB · 06-01-2009, 09:13 AM

To answer the original question pertaining to an estimate. Once it is given, you should be as generic as possible with the total price. You may possibly wish to have numerous items listed to demonstrate the value you are bringing to the total price, but do not list the individual prices for each topic since that will only force the customer to begin negotiating with you on a line by line basis. You may wish to include line by line prices as part of the followup negotiations but not as part of the first estimate being given to the potential customer. This is for any form of service business, whether providing custom software development projects (which I have done in the past) or providing a repair or remodeling construction service. Brian