Guerilla Marketing

KG007

Thom:

Afraid we have to agree to disagree. You are confusing marketing vs. selling to start with. Marketing is essentially letting people know about you and what you do or sell so that when they ARE in the market for what you do there is a reasonably good chance they will think of you and call or come in.

Say I want to buy soap and you have the greatest soap ever made at the cheapest price. But you haven't done anything so I even know it exists. The chance of you selling it to me or anyone else is about zero - only accidential customers would find out and consider buying it.

As far as selling "what people want" it is really common that they don't even know what they want - at least in specifics. Especially true of what all of us do. Part of being a PROFESSIONAL salesperson is finding out what the person really wants and needs and putting them together with the right thing in the budget range that works. I'm not good enough to sell someone anything when they absolutely don't want and need what I have. I AM good enough to guide them to well-suited products and get the job installed correctly within their budget, assuming the budget is at all realistic. But those people have to know about me first.

As far as "disrespecting" you with any marketing methods, I don't think you are very objective on the subject. If someone doesn't want ANY contact from marketing information all they have to do is put up a "no soliciting" sign and they get skipped. Some neighborhoods have such a posting and no one goes there. (But those neighborhoods still get loads of direct mail, don't they?) And no one except you has said anything like "illegal yard signs! Yeah, they work fantastic! Only thing better is automated calls! Yeah, the more annoying the better the results!"

As far as "traditional marketing" I assume you mean TV, radio, and print. How do you not consider those intrusive as well? I'd like to listen to a radio show and not hear a Lowe's ad, or soap ad or any other ad, but that isn't going to happen. Or are you talking about only referrals? So I'm offended that whoever is referring you to me even brought up the subject. The reality is ALL of us have something to sell, even if it is just ourselves and our skills. No one is buying if you don't make a case for it. If you are a GC/contractor it must be nice to not ever have to sell anything you build. I'm glad you don't intrude on the rest of us by having a house listed or a sign or an ad in the paper or on the radio or TV. Really bugs me to be reading the news and have part of the pages taken up with ads for stuff I don't want - I'm offended.

As for "shotgunning" that is exactly what TV/radio/print does. And door hangers do that largely also - except I can at least focus on specific neighborhoods. No use in putting them in a brand new neighborhood. No use putting them in mostly renters, apartments, or low income. It's certainly not perfect, but at least I can target to some extent. I can guarantee at least 50% (probably more like 90%) of the households in those neighborhoods we try to do need something we do, if not then at least within the next two years. The HO may not be in the market for doing it, but the houses certainly NEED it. And if they don't want to even consider it they can take five seconds to toss it in the trash without reading it, which I'm sure some do. But I've booked several jobs in the $6K to $25K range from people who did read them. Not enough mind you, but enough to give a positive return. And I've had dozens of people say "Thanks for letting me know. I'm not in the market but good luck..." And I've had TWO people get all bent out of shape over it - but only by leaving anonymous threatening phone messages when they knew we were closed.

The reason I started this thread is to see if anyone has any low cost method that actually is effective and works well. If that's taking a bubble bath in the front window every afternoon I'll consider it if it generates the business. I'm not wedded to any method. But from your postings sounds like you have some real issues - you might want to consider budgeting a little money for therapy.

NormW

Graham,

Are you sure its Thom who is getting confused with marketing and sales?

I think its a gray area, and in my opinion, as soon as you go onto someones property, I would say your crossing into sales.

I may be way off, and Im sure there are better informed people following these threads.

To me, Marketing is an the impression you are trying to communicate to an anonymous market. I would extend that to letterhead, business cards, logo, clothing, charity work, etc. basically the image you try to convey about your business.

As soon as you start going door to door, calling people, and mailing brochures, IMO you are not marketing but selling. Cold calling I believe to be the correct term. In any case a lot of people find it invasive.

I think "selling" the trades in this manner to be short sighted. Granted a few may bite, but I think your scaring a lot of fish away, who might otherwise bite on the proper bait.

KG007

Norm:

I agree with most of what you say. There is a "gray area" between marketing and selling. To me, marketing does include things like logos, business cards, etc. But marketing is about generally putting your "brand" in front of potential prospects. For example, say you sell industrial widgets. You can write letters, send promotional materials, advertise in trade publications, etc., to companies that use industrial widgets. That's marketing.

To me, selling is when you are face to face with an actual prospect, i.e., someone who is interested and can use or needs your product or service and is capable of buying. If I meet you at your door, or anywhere else for that matter, and give you a flyer or card or magnet with my name on it, I'm marketing my company to you. Even if we are talking doesn't mean I'm selling. I can tell you about the location we just moved to, what we do, the fight with the city and utility companies over what the address is, etc., and that is just a combination of marketing (letting you know I exist) and idle chit chat being friendly.

If you indicate you are thinking about replacing carpet, or new hardwood, etc., I would probably move into selling. And what I need to do then is qualify you and find out information about what you are thinking about doing. (Do you own the house or just rent? Do you have specific issues such as dogs or cats that wet on the floor? What is your budget and time frame?)

Business schools teach marketing. Hell, there's nothing to it. If you work for Fortune 50 XYZ company you do a media buy with 30 magazines who have a circulation of X each and card rates of such and such with discounts for number of ads, blah blah blah. And if you have umpteen million dollars of someone else's money and don't have to actually prove that what you did resulted in these specific sales, you have it pretty easy. I'm being sarcastic, of course, but my point is having lots of resources and a kind of vague target is easy.

But schools don't teach SELLING. And most people who are "salespeople" are just order takers. "If you know what you want and really want to buy it I guess I'll consent to write it up." Sometimes really crappy order takers can't even do that.

What I really would like is to have all the Extraordinary Sales Professionals in the world working for me. Those people know how to prospect, qualify, match a client to the right thing, and close the job. And most still don't close much over 50%.

Some of the best experiences of my life have been working with real pro salespeople. I had a Realtor like that, who was also a personal friend and client when I was in another profession. And I went to buy a suit with a $200 or so budget and had the pleasure of an absolute pro waiting on me. I wound up with a $350+ suit (in the early 1980's), shirts, ties, belt, etc., well over $500. And it was some of the best money I ever spent - I still have the suit and it still looks great. (And yes, I can still fit into it 24-5 years later.)

How many times have you heard "...I wish I had gotten that better quality dishwasher/car/printer/underwear/whatever..." versus "... I hate that I got this really good floor. I wish I had bought the cheap crap that falls apart as it is being installed..."

If I'm doing door hangers I frankly don't have time to be real intrusive. If I chat with someone because they are raking leaves it isn't over 10 seconds unless they indicate they want to talk. And most times they are wasting MY time because they just want to pass the time of day. Frankly, if your level of "I'm so pissed someone intruded into my life for the three seconds it took me to yank this off the door I'm going to chase him down and put a 2x4 through his windshield" is that high, I suggest you need a) to buy a lot of life insurance and name me the beneficiary, because that stroke is coming up fast, or b) really step back and re-evaluate yourself.

What we all face in this economic climate is better prospecting for real clients. I can't afford millions for a Fortune 500 type campaign - can you? And if you do much reading you can find any number of stories where companies like that have literally invested MILLIONS OR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS to have a complete flop. If I do that I'm out of business and bankrupt. Most people reading this forum are probably like me. We need techniques that work and are cost effective. If someone anywhere in the country has a good idea I freely admit I'm ready to copy it or tweak it if I can make it work here within my budget.

NormW

To be honest, I hung flyers off doors once... Myself and a Buddy, went to the furthest town we considered to be in our range. Spent the day walking the neighborhood and hanging these. We poked fun at ourselves the whole day. The best I could say was, "at least we re being, proactive". Which was true.

That technique just did not fit with me. "Luckily" for me, I didn't get a single lead. If I had gotten a lead, I'd probably would of kept doing it... I question what the quality of the lead would be.

You mention guerrilla marketing . I wonder if canvassing counts. Its not like, they don't see you coming.

Maybe guerrilla marketing should be, when they dont see you coming

I get most of my jobs, off the job Im on, and repeat customers...

Yes, I get slow, Yes i get nervous... very nervous

Worst thing I do is sit on the couch and worry. Best thing to do is go out and circulate.. anywhere, were there are things going on related to building. Go to lumberyards, cheepo depot, hang at your buddies jobs, call past customers asking if you can use them for a reference. Get around people and building, and trust me... you'll find work.

I also run an ad on craigslist, probably a couple times a week. I try not to spam there either. I get a lot of calls from the ad. Some of these are filler jobs, some are a joke, a couple are really decent jobs. Mention your licensed and insured.. You will stand out and should discourage the bottom feeders from calling.

rselectric1

Agreed Thom,

I hate the junk too. However, the same signs keep getting taken down, and replaced again over and over and over. (Granite for $29 to $38 is prevalant signage here near Chicago)

People are always placing door hangers for remodeling one right on top of the other on my customers doorknobs even as I am inside working with a big permit taped on the front window, etc. (3-5 per day in the higher end neighborhoods)

My guess is that they must actually work or why would they bother?

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buildsmart

You cannot just stop and say ok, i went out for one day and hung some papers on some doors and I had no calls so this is a waste of time. If your going to door hang do it with a good hanger. A nice piece offering customers something good for their money. This is where marketing is important, knowing what message to get across and how. Now I personally have never seen 3-5 hangers from companies on a door a day, and if I did I could see where it would start to upset me. But do you throw a 2x4 through your TV when you see 3-5 commercials every fifteen minutes? True I dont need wasted paper on my porch, but if its a good service with a professional message I may even call. Now the crappy homemade flier copies do irritate me to some extent. I never knock a guy for attempting to better themselves. But if a contractor is complaining he is slow and the recession is beating him up while he is sitting on his couch then nobody is listening or cares and its probably going to get much worse for them. Referral only is great but you will be going month to month with your fingers crossed. I would suggest you invest in a website and promote it as much as you can. I get a lot of calls directly from my website. These are good prospects who see the value in calling me and they want to deal with my company. Sure it costs but after awhile its great getting new leads in your email consistently from a website you paid for a year ago. Makes sense for long term stability.

gorenx

Exactly! Business is tough. Business has always been tough. We work hard for our money. We work very hard for our money and to part with it now with the economy the way it is, well, you had better show some respect and not just respect for the customer, but also respect for the customer's family and home and community as well.

Thom is right, guerrilla marketing is for hacks. It is also for start ups as well. At one point in time, we were all hacks, we just didn't know it. What makes us different is not that we have the licenses and the GL policies and the fleets of vehicles and offering benefits for our employees and so on and so forth... What truly makes us different is we all had the urge and the desire to do the job right the first time and to take pride in our work.

We all had to start somewhere and we all started as hacks. We have learned our lessons and most of the time it has been learned the hard way. Let's remember those lessons and NOT resort to guerrilla tactics. Respect the customer, respect the customer's home and community, and take pride in your work. Guerrilla marketing CANNOT and DOES NOT fit into this equation.

gorenx

How is guerrilla marketing thinking outside of the box? If it already exists and is being utilized, it can't be considered "outside the box"

I would consider this thinking outside of the box, and kudos to you for taking personal initiative.

KG007

I think several of the people reading this are either missing the point or have some preconceived notions about how marketing "has to be done a certain way."

15-20 years ago I read where somebody described what your advertising budget will buy you. I don't remember the exact analogy, but the point was a $1 million budget if you tried to do a national campaign was just flushing a million dollars if you used traditional mass media. We are exposed to something like 900 marketing messages a day, and that kind of budget would get you about 1/2 of the typical message for ONE day nationally. One can apply the same ratio, I suppose, to whatever our budget is and the regional size we have to cover. It is tough to cut through the clutter.

Guerilla marketing is just describing techniques to get your message out that is effective and can work with whatever budget you have. For example, Krispy Kreme has gotten tons of results from having a neon sign that says "Hot Doughnuts" when they are frying. I guess they are "hacks" and it should be banned because it doesn't meet some people's ideas of what is acceptable. A barbeque joint might get lots of mileage from the smell of the smoke. A pizza place might be a winner with someone on the curb with a sign saying "$5 pizza ready to go" at 6:00 pm on Friday night.

What I'm looking for, and I bet a lot of others, is effective low cost techniques. Some people have been very successful with what a lot of you might sneer at, something that looks podunk but communicates effectively to the potential customer and makes a significant percentage take action. Other businesses might need a high-end professionaly done set of printed material the size of a set of encyclopedias. The question is what works for us.

I gather a lot of people perusing this basically need just one job at a time, and each job may last several days to months. The yield you need from whatever you do doesn't have to be that high. My yield doesn't have to be huge, but to get this store to the size I want I need to be booking around 14 "average" jobs per month. I would like to build it to 50+ jobs per month. And at this point I don't have a million bucks to do a big TV campaign (and probably wouldn't if I did have a mill.)

I'm not wedded to any particular technique. Door hangers seem a reasonable way to get my message out and are no more "intrusive" than direct mail or a billboard or TV ad. I will say that if you think doing a few hundred one day and quitting is proof one way or the other you wasted your time. Most people will not make a major decision with ONE impression, no matter what. I'm interested in what techniques that have been applied consistently for a reasonable period of time and what WORKED - or what is a definite DIDN'T WORK so I don't waste my time and money. Thanks!

JV Marketing

In today's climate with all the job loss and cutbacks it has become difficult to find people who have disposable income. They may need their house painted or their bathroom remodeled but can not afford to or not will to dip into savings to get the work done with there being so much uncertainty.

That means we have to be more creative than we have ever been in finding leads and customers. I had a handyman and lawncare business 10 years ago and had all the work I wanted and then some. I provided a good service at resaonable rates and got plenty of referals.

Today it's not that easy...less people are looking to get work done and there are more people trying to find work. This means we have to find other ways to find leads and customers.

The reality is that people these days spend more time on the internet than ever. We can access it from our homes, where we work and even with our cell phones.

We choose to reach people via the internet. But that does not mean that other ways are not effective. A good mailing list can still generate a good number of leads. Door hangers can work as well, so can flyers...the point is that we have to find ways to reach our customers.

As long as someone provides a good service at a fair price and is not trying to scam any one then I don't have a problem with whatever tactic they use. We do a lot of email marketing, if some request that we don't email them anymore we stop. As long as the rules are followed then I think we owe it to our families and employees to market our products any legal way we can.

j

gorenx

No offense, but I think you missed my point. Krispy Kreme's neon sign has nothing to do with flyers parked under my windshield or hangers on my door knob. Guerilla marketing is intrusive and a nuisance. Ever been on the strip in Vegas when the sun goes down? Remember those guys shoving **** ads and hooker handbills in your face? Remember how you felt when that jerk did that to you in front of your wife? That, my friend, is the guerilla marketing I am referring to.

I myself would love to have more jobs as well, as all of us would. Always having another job lined up is OUR job security. And yes, advertising can be an effective tool to help grow your business. I believe the key thing is to have an advertising campaign that not only is effective, but also respectful and moral as well.

I have done direct mailings before. I myself have never seen the kinds of ROI the direct mailing sales staff have suggested I would receive.

The best advertising that works for me is word of mouth and networking.

How many realtors do you have in your roledex? How many of those realtors have clients that want to list their house but the home needs some minor repair work done?

How many bankers do you have in your roledex? How many of those bankers are sitting on foreclosures that won't sell because the properties were damaged by the previous owners/tenants?

With the economy the way it is today, I find myself taking jobs I would have turned down before. The way I look at it, more bread and butter jobs give me something to do tomorrow and by having something to do tomorrow, that is one more day I survive this economic storm.

KG007

Hate to say you are still missing the point. Guerrila marketing is simply a catch-all term to describe ways to market that isn't your traditional big established campaigns of either mass media, have scads of outside sales reps for industrial markets, etc.

You didn't like having handbills shoved in your face. I agree, that's a guerrila marketign technique, but I think most of us would agree it isn't effective in our industry and find it distasteful. But the Krispy Kreme sign is also guerrila marketing and you seem to like it. But I don't think a sign saying "Hot Carpet" is going to work either.

The purpose of this is to see if anyone has tried particular methods that have returned proven results at a significant level. Everyone agrees referrals are great. But I bet it doesn't bring you 4 new closed jobs a week, much less 15 or more. Several people have had some decent results with door hangers, others haven't. Some of those who haven't seem to have been committed to failure when they tried it for one whole day and bad mouthed it in the process of trying it.

But no one on here who dislikes it has described a proven method(s) that is going to produce significant amounts of qualified prospects. If you can do the level you want strictly on word of mouth I think that's great. I can't. Neither can Toyota, or P&G, or Lowe's, or most of your local car dealers. And the reason most businesses fail within 5 years? In my opinion, the #1 reason is they simply can't attract enough clients/customers even when the product or service is from passable to excellent. Management, capitalization, and quality of work or product comes after that.

Regarding Realtors, bankers, etc., I have spent significant time, money, and energy prospecting Realtors, builders, bankers, insurance adjusters, various contractors, fire & water restoration, designers, and other supposedly great referral sources. I've been in BNI. I've tried radio twice within my limited budget. Tried direct mail. Tried newspaper ads. Tried newspaper inserts. Tried cable TV on HGTV. Tried quoting on commercial bid work.

Every one of those sources wound up producing some business, some significant - for a short period. (Except the TV trial.) Most broke even or did a little better. But none are what I would call a reliable, proven results method for generating a steady stream of prospects, and certainly not enough to grow a business to a level I need, and certainly not in this environment.

There are still people doing jobs. And their homes are still wearing out at the same pace as when the economy was good. And people didn't update and replace worn out stuff as often as they should have even then. But it is harder than ever to hook up with qualified prospects, and especially in the quantity needed. We can't afford to waste money, time and effort on low-yield methods. I'm willing to learn from someone else's mistakes or successes.

gorenx

Graham:

Okay, I can see your point now. Wish I could help you out more but right now, my business model does not include becoming the size of Lowes or Toyota.

I am not sure if this will help you, but it is kind of a neat story. Back in 1911, three brothers invented a revolutionary machine and started a manufacturing company to produce the machine they invented. They found an outlet for their product via a mail order catalog. By 1916, orders were coming in faster than they could produce their product. They sought help through conventional methods at that time, mostly banks and lenders, and were consistently denied. They desperately needed investment income to expand their facilities, purchase more raw materials, and expand their work force to keep up with the demand. The three brothers finally decided they needed to meet with the producer of the mail order catalog and explain to him their dilemma. They felt for sure they were doomed for failure. The owner of the catalog met with them and offered a solution. He would provide the investment income if they would agree to exclusively offer their product through his catalog and no others. The brothers agreed. The manufacturing company they built was Whirlpool, the mail order Catalog was Sears and Roebuck.

Just goes to show you that sometimes when things are darkest it doesn't mean it's the end. There is always a tomorrow.

Chasing Dreams

Rags to riches stories always give me the warm fuzzies

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Allnail

A lot of people search for services online now. And... making a decent website that will last for years without much new input could cost between 500 and 1000 (with $5 per month hosting). You have to make sure that you can add new content (new pages or simply new info) to the site yourself without the need to go to a web designer everytime. Then get yourself setup in as many free online company listings as possible.

Make sure that you state on your website all types of work you do and the area where you do it. Write the locations you service and types of work you do more than once throughout your site, if possible - that will improve your chances of being found on Google for free (if somebody searches for something rather specific, like "custom cabinets in Lakewood, Ohio" for example). Of course, you can't expect to be found when someone searches for something generic like "carpenter in Ohio", but specific searches for things you do and where you do it might land your website on the first page of Google/Yahoo/Bing results (exactly what you need).

If this will be done correctly, you will start seeing results within a few months. Also, install Google Analytics on your site to monitor traffic to your site.

This way you will only target people that are actually potential customers. Just make sure that your site has info that will actually get people interested.

You can also outsource the support and search engine optimization (the work that needs to be done to get your site found), but that will cost you if you actually get good service.

Rio

Mmm, I'm sending out two people this afternoon to doorknob our spiffy 4 color brochure. I sure hope they don't work Thom's neighborhood! I do have mixed feelings about engaging in this but frankly, I've never been offended when I've been doorknobbed (that almost sounds dirty, lol) so I think that most people won't be offended by it either. We are also planning on following up the doorknobbing with a polite telemarketing call to see if what we put out has generated any interest. The thing is by the time I have the brochures printed, and pay to have them distributed the costs aren't inconsiderable. I'm thinking in the future doing some simple ones in house, on plain paper with just a little color and also changing the message to offer different enticements in the hope of seeing which message works the best.

Another thing we're going to try is to use some local newspapers for ads. I've done this before with horrible results but we're going to try a couple of specialty stores this time that I think might have a clientele that should have an interest in one of the services we offer.

MagicPoolSvcs

We did a little " GORILLA " Marketing.
We dressed like apes for Halloween and hung our door flyers

Just kidding


Actually, we got in contact with the lost mitigation department with some banks.

They do need work done to some of the houses which are in foreclosures.
In our case, we treat their pools.

Im sure the same can go with other trades.

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Baron

I would consider profanity to be spam, garbage and an insult to the community as much as I would dumping trash on some one elses property.

Personally I think guerrilla marketing is difficult in that it isn't targeted.

In fact marketing that is too generalized like making assumptions that some one is a hack because they are confused are lost on how to get more business is as much a guerrilla technique as say throwing flyers out the window in a neat neighborhood. But then some people fight what they hate in themselves to a level of cartoonish disproportion.

Personally I have gone back and touched basses with all my past customers and gave them a rate deal. i have also spent time building my web site and sending letters to my friends with business cards asking them to help me spread my business site info around at work and anyone they can think of.

I am spending more time contacting and speaking with old clients just to insure the flow of business keeps going but I have not done any wide spread reckless insulting paper flinging.

I agree that flyers on the windshield only supply me with note paper for my next jobs measurements and I quietly thank the guy for the note pad. I lose no sleep over it nor do I rise to the anal retentive state of hating the poor guy for trying as hw may to get my attention through ineffectual means.

Target your marketing with sincerity and purpose is best.
Walk your neighborhood, speak with neighbors and volunteer at a community event and talk talk talk talk talk = sell sell sell.

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carlsore

Great Thread...

One of my favorite books when I got out of highschool and started playing around online was "Guerrilla Marketing" by Jay Conrad Levinson.

It was an eye opener to say the least...

Follow that up with "Purple Cow" by Seth Godin and you'll be armed and ready for Guerrilla Marketing warfare!

Here's a thought...

Give your services away for for FREE... Just 1 hour labor on someones home... It might be fixing a door, a leaky faucet, clean some gutters... etc...

I don't care what it is... But it's going to get your foot in a door, and it's going to build some rapport for you. It could potentially lead to some questions from the homeowner about OTHER issues they might need help with on their home.

Not only that, they would be INVITING you into their home... Nothing invasive.

Advertise with a simple door hanger, craigslist ad, whatever......

If you're going to sit on the couch and worry, you might as well be helping someone out and giving them a reason to say good things about you!

I spent more than 20 hours compiling a free report I give away on my website. It's 18 pages long and I give it away to anyone who requests it.

Over the last few years I've given away countless hours of my time for free and it's one of the best business generators I've ever employed!

Carl

handyhands

I couldn't have said it any better myself.