Google And Home Advisor

 
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:14 PM   #81
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Again, most good contractors don't need a website to be successful. This is the fallacy in your logic. It's nice, but certainly not NECESSARY to be successful.
Of course it's not necessary nor did I say it was. But no one with an effective web site will regret the investment.

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Who are these "I"s you speak of. They are figments of your imagination. I haven't seen a single contractor from 10 years ago complain that they are lacking in business due to not having a web presence. Please provide just one example of this epidemic you claim exists. At least to the point that warrants your attention.
As for the "I's" you asked about, you were focused on contractors while I was referring to buyers. You proved my point while trying to goad. To your credit, you did state you had no idea what my point was. Let's leave it at that.
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:29 AM   #82
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Of course it's not necessary nor did I say it was. But no one with an effective web site will regret the investment.

Yet you keep saying miss. Like I said before,
if you don't need it, you don't miss it.


As for the "I's" you asked about, you were focused on contractors while I was referring to buyers. You proved my point while trying to goad. To your credit, you did state you had no idea what my point was. Let's leave it at that.
No the I's you were talking about were the "I's"
in "I don't need no stinking website". They are contractors, not buyers.
Why would a buyer, looking online for a contractor talk about not needing a website because they were booked up? I proved no point for you and goading isn't my objective, getting to some actual substance and fact are. So again, PLEASE provide a single example of any successful contractor who has ever said I don't need a stinking website and then bitched about losing leads to Home Advisor. This was your initial claim and the ONLY one I have addressed and tried to get you to defend.

Instead you duck and skirt any real question, completely misrepresent when I have said.

I know that you would love to leave it at that. That way you won't actually have to defend your BS.

So one last time, please provide a single shred of evidence that HA was able to gain market share because contractors (not buyers) said they don't need a stinking website and are now upset that they are losing (Missing) leads as you claimed.

My guess is you won't and will, yet again, deflect and not actually answer my question.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:19 PM   #83
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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My guess is you won't and will, yet again, deflect and not actually answer my question.
You're right, Rob. I will deflect by wishing everyone here a Happy New Year and prosperous 2018. As for not answering your question, you guessed correctly on that too. Enjoy being right on this one because no one except God can do that every time.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:51 PM   #84
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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You're right, Rob. I will deflect by wishing everyone here a Happy New Year and prosperous 2018. As for not answering your question, you guessed correctly on that too. Enjoy being right on this one because no one except God can do that every time.
Lol, see, when confronted with actual questions you make this about me. I don't care about winning. What I care about is BS, and I need some waders when you start talking.

It's like liberals, you start asking tough direct questions and they attack you and storm off pouting.
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:27 PM   #85
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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No the I's you were talking about were the "I's"
in "I don't need no stinking website". They are contractors, not buyers.
Why would a buyer, looking online for a contractor talk about not needing a website because they were booked up? I proved no point for you and goading isn't my objective, getting to some actual substance and fact are. So again, PLEASE provide a single example of any successful contractor who has ever said I don't need a stinking website and then bitched about losing leads to Home Advisor. This was your initial claim and the ONLY one I have addressed and tried to get you to defend.
You seem to enjoy accusing me of BS, Rob. If I have jumped to conclusions toward you or made statements that can be construed as a personal insult, I apologize. My reactions have nothing to do with defending my position, I'm just not compelled to respond when your questions are tainted with accusations about my character, integrity, and even intelligence.

I completely agree with you about liberals, it's become a standard strategy all too often. But if you think I'm storming off pouting I'll spin a 180 on my previous post and tell you you're wrong this time.

As for your plea above to answer your question, I'm having a difficult time deciphering your meaning. I think I get what you're asking, I'm just not entirely sure.

We've both been here for a long time. During that time I've done considerably more time reading than posting because I'm more concerned with discovery/learning and share my perspective when it's appropriate. I also vividly recall the "culture" here and the changes that have taken place in the 9 years I've been here, plus several years experience before that.

Anyone who was in business back then, especially in the trades, is well aware of the effects the economic woes of that era had. Prior to that, contractors were well able to ignore the Internet and suffer no ill effects that would be noticeable to them. I assure you the "I don't need no stinkin' web site" type comments could be found in abundance here back then. Since then, it's more likely to see "Maybe it's time for a web site" type comments here. I've seen that more than once.

If you're asking for hardcore data, I didn't collect any such thing just to be prepared to answer your questions (I'm sure it could be found in the archives here though). What I do have is keen observations from multiple sources. The frustration of consumers trying to locate a contractor online is not something I made up, it was very real. That's not such a problem any more.

The complaints here about lead gen are pretty much daily. Your assertion about my "claim" is not entirely accurate. My real claim was that contractors as a whole, meaning the majority but not the entirety, were slow to embrace the Internet while the market was actively using it to find them. The general attitude was I don't need no stinkin web site, which failed to recognize that the potential customer did and does need to find you online. Now we have wholesale hatred among contractors toward lead gen services. And because of their practices, that hatred is deserved. The other side of my "claim" is that if more contractors had met consumer demand for having a web site, lead gen services would have had a much tougher time gaining traction.

The very fact that they intensely target contractor services says a lot. They saw an unlocked door with no one home and took over the house. Feel free to disagree with my assessment but I stand by it and see no evidence to the contrary. Quite the opposite actually. I've helped many clients win when their competitors were embracing the I don't need no stinkin web site ideology.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:43 PM   #86
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


Like I said. There was no door left opened. It was simply an opportunity for a niche that we couldn't fill. As I've tried to explain previously, the void they filed was one that offered contractors that are "trusted" and with unsolicited or manufactured reviews. My website cannot nor will ever fill that void.

I will repeat, they didn't fill a void that any contractor could have filled by having a website.

I will also repeat the only contractors you help are those that are new, don't cultivate their own leads and are in need of leads and work. The "I don't need a stinkin website" contractors are not in need of your services because they have effectively cultivated a referral base. You simply aren't needed. You are a nice but not necessary.

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Old 01-09-2018, 04:10 PM   #87
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I will also repeat the only contractors you help are those that are new, don't cultivate their own leads and are in need of leads and work.
That assumption is incredibly wrong.

If it weren't for the fact that I can help in those situations, I would say the opposite is true. Those types of situations, other than being new, are generally created by some deficiency in business operations. I can't fix that. Maybe you subscribe to the idea that marketing is just putting lipstick on a pig and some marketers do that, but it can (and should) mean creating a presentation that accurately reflects the client and helps achieve objectives.

That's not just for "big" companies. Small businesses have much to gain by putting proven success principles into practice. That goes way beyond a web site but an effective web site does serve its purpose to enhance everything else and boost revenue far beyond the costs.

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I will repeat, they didn't fill a void that any contractor could have filled by having a website.
Neither of us can prove anything one way or the other way on that point.

Many contractors were early adapters compared to the majority and did very well with an online presence. To say the rest could not have doesn't mean much if they didn't try. You've made your position plenty clear that you didn't want to try but who's to know what might have happened if you had?

Given the fact that online searches date back to the 90's and lead gen didn't arrive on the scene until much later, both of us can only speculate on what might have happened. Since the market demand helped create lead gen, I think more contractors could have filled the void and didn't.

But like the question about how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop, "The world may never know."
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:49 PM   #88
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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That assumption is incredibly wrong.

It's not an assumption, it's fact. A contractor that is booked for months doesn't need your service, but wants your service.

If it weren't for the fact that I can help in those situations, I would say the opposite is true. Those types of situations, other than being new, are generally created by some deficiency in business operations. I can't fix that. Maybe you subscribe to the idea that marketing is just putting lipstick on a pig and some marketers do that, but it can (and should) mean creating a presentation that accurately reflects the client and helps achieve objectives.

Again, those are objectives that they cannot meet on their own. So they must not be booked for months or maybe looking to expand quickly. I will give you that one. Maybe there are guys that are booked for months, but want to expand, but don't have the lead base to make it happen.

That's not just for "big" companies. Small businesses have much to gain by putting proven success principles into practice. That goes way beyond a web site but an effective web site does serve its purpose to enhance everything else and boost revenue far beyond the costs.

I don't recall ever mentioning big companies.


Neither of us can prove anything one way or the other way on that point.

Sure I can. It's simple. The need they meet is not the need that you listed. The fact that I have used the service and know plenty who use it and asked my clients that I received from the service is all the proof I need. Those clients repeatedly stated they were looking for reputable contractors in the area but didn't have anyone to ask. The number one thing a client wants from a contractor is trust. They want to be able to trust them. The only real way that happens is if they take a chance or have a reference. There is a reason the number one method of lead generation for contractors is referrals.
It's that easy to prove.


Many contractors were early adapters compared to the majority and did very well with an online presence. To say the rest could not have doesn't mean much if they didn't try. You've made your position plenty clear that you didn't want to try but who's to know what might have happened if you had?

Then you have foggy glasses if you think that is my position. I have had a site since day one. I built my first site in 1993 for a satellite communications company. I built my first company site back in 2004. My current company has had a web presence since day in back in 2009. In fact I get about 5-10 leads from my site every week. The position that I made clear, if you had actually been paying attention is that it is not NEEDED if you are booked. It's nice, but not necessary to succeed in this business. I know that if you admit that it's detrimental to you business goal, but it is still true.

Given the fact that online searches date back to the 90's and lead gen didn't arrive on the scene until much later, both of us can only speculate on what might have happened. Since the market demand helped create lead gen, I think more contractors could have filled the void and didn't.

No speculation, just look at their advertising.
It's all right there. They are appealing to people who don't know where to go to get contractors that have been reviewed and approved.
The market demand has always been there. Again, having a site would not have met the demand. It's not just about finding them, but finding them with a referral or review or at the very least some background checking on insurance and accountability to some type of review system.


But like the question about how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop, "The world may never know."
I already know. That's why I have been so successful. Build a referral base and you don't need others to generate leads for you.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:03 PM   #89
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


Rob, you're certainly staying true to your Hair Splitter title. For the most part, the only real disagreement between is semantics.

Some of my points aren't for you alone because there's no telling how many CT members are following this discussion silently. My posting style is for the community at large, even lurkers and drive by guests who happen upon this place through a search. This isn't a totally private conversation. I know you know that but your comments sometimes suggest you're thinking everything said is strictly between the two of us or that I'm directing it only toward you.

I knew you've had a web site for a while but admit not knowing it's been that long. That puts you at a level of experience not everyone has. And your skill set obviously includes natural abilities (and I'm sure developed and honed) that don't automatically come with being a great contractor.

To say I'm not necessary is true for you but not universally true, so admitting your assertion wouldn't be detrimental, it would make me a liar. You became successful using the methods you deemed best and meeting your own definition of success. That's why free enterprise is so exciting. Others become successful according to a different definition (even a radically different model) and/or by delegating. Each are valid.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:39 PM   #90
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Rob, you're certainly staying true to your Hair Splitter title. For the most part, the only real disagreement between is semantics.

Not at all. I am getting to your core point on the void and what created it. I disagree with your assessment and conclusion. That isn't hair splitting nor is it semantics.

Some of my points aren't for you alone because there's no telling how many CT members are following this discussion silently.

Nor or my points my friend. I am just speaking from another perspective, one that actually deals with this on a daily basis. You are peripheral and have no direct relationship to our clients.

My posting style is for the community at large, even lurkers and drive by guests who happen upon this place through a search. This isn't a totally private conversation.

Never said it was, nor have my arguments indicated I think that we are in a private conversation.

I know you know that but your comments sometimes suggest you're thinking everything said is strictly between the two of us or that I'm directing it only toward you.

If you know I know that then why did you have to say it? That makes no sense.

I knew you've had a web site for a while but admit not knowing it's been that long. That puts you at a level of experience not everyone has. And your skill set obviously includes natural abilities (and I'm sure developed and honed) that don't automatically come with being a great contractor.

I agree.

To say I'm not necessary is true for you but not universally true, so admitting your assertion wouldn't be detrimental, it would make me a liar.

I am pretty sure I qualified that statement and said that you are not necessary for contractors that are booked and busy for months on end. This is where I think you could use some improvement, digesting what others are saying before reacting.

You became successful using the methods you deemed best and meeting your own definition of success.

I used the methods that never change and are "tried and true". It is a fact that in our industry word of mouth will always be king. When a contractor reaches a certain level all other forms of marketing are nice but not necessary.

That's why free enterprise is so exciting. Others become successful according to a different definition (even a radically different model) and/or by delegating. Each are valid.
Example?
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:18 PM   #91
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Google puts review sites top and center, like yelp and many reviews are fake or malicious, ask me how I know. How does it help when you are putting the equivalent of a public restroom wall on top?
What most business owners don't realize about Google is that it's all based on algorithms.

Yes, Google probably tampers with certain areas for political reasons. But do you really think Google cares about your own little town? They got bigger conspiracies going on.

If a small business owner runs an ad next to a big review site, the "little guy" can still get the lion's share of leads if he has an ad that looks credible.

I've seen this happen over and over in different markets.

People would rather do business with a real local expert than a faceless corporation.

So if your (relevant and credible) ad gets twice as many clicks as the big dumb faceless corporation, you're click costs will be half of what the big guy pays.

Why?

Because Google's algorithm is all about relevancy. They'd rather send two $10 clicks to a site than one $20 click. So they reward the advertiser who can pull in more clicks. Even better: four clicks for $5 instead of one $20 click.

That's how the little guy can beat the bigger outfits.

But most contractors don't understand this advantage, so they choose to play the victim instead.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:53 PM   #92
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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What most business owners don't realize about Google is that it's all based on algorithms.

Yes, Google probably tampers with certain areas for political reasons. But do you really think Google cares about your own little town? They got bigger conspiracies going on.

If a small business owner runs an ad next to a big review site, the "little guy" can still get the lion's share of leads if he has an ad that looks credible.

I've seen this happen over and over in different markets.

People would rather do business with a real local expert than a faceless corporation.

So if your (relevant and credible) ad gets twice as many clicks as the big dumb faceless corporation, you're click costs will be half of what the big guy pays.

Why?

Because Google's algorithm is all about relevancy. They'd rather send two $10 clicks to a site than one $20 click. So they reward the advertiser who can pull in more clicks. Even better: four clicks for $5 instead of one $20 click.

That's how the little guy can beat the bigger outfits.

But most contractors don't understand this advantage, so they choose to play the victim instead.
Put the money into your site and it's local SEO and forget the ads. It's that simple.

I would love to see some of your results. Let's see an example of these primo ads you speak of.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:36 PM   #93
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Put the money into your site and it's local SEO and forget the ads. It's that simple.

I would love to see some of your results. Let's see an example of these primo ads you speak of.
SEO is great once it starts working. But many business owners don't have the time/inclination to learn it or the budget to hire a professional.

Search ads, on the other hand, get results right away. It's just a matter of how much it's going to cost.

If you use ad extensions (e.g. location, local phone #, sitelinks, etc.) as well as use the location and relevant keywords in your headline, it will perform significantly better than most competitors.

As an example, one of my clients started at $18 and went down to $6 a click. That's because the ad was more relevant and got more clicks.

Obviously, each market is different depending on the competition, but the principle's the same.

SEO and search ads are complimentary. SEO gets you free leads in the long-term (if you manage to get ranked). Search ads get you high-quality leads in the short-term... but you have to continue paying as the results come in.
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Old 01-11-2018, 04:23 PM   #94
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SEO is great once it starts working. But many business owners don't have the time/inclination to learn it or the budget to hire a professional.

See this is what business owners don't know.
It's actually cheaper and in the long run far better. Once you start paying for leads you can't stop. If you do the faucet is turned off.
If you build your site, get some basic SEO on the site, claim your Google Business listing and give it 3-6 months you won't need to keep feeding Google. It's all your own juice.

And if they don't know how to do that, they probably don't know how to write a successful ad.


Search ads, on the other hand, get results right away. It's just a matter of how much it's going to cost.

Right and you are a slave to ads to generate leads.
Not a great long term solution.


If you use ad extensions (e.g. location, local phone #, sitelinks, etc.) as well as use the location and relevant keywords in your headline, it will perform significantly better than most competitors.

And that is a key component of SEO on your site.
Location pages and key words with relevant information. All you have to do is focus that on your site and you are golden.


As an example, one of my clients started at $18 and went down to $6 a click. That's because the ad was more relevant and got more clicks.

Yeah, and he could have spent all of that money on SEO and spent far less in the long wrong.

Obviously, each market is different depending on the competition, but the principle's the same.

SEO and search ads are complimentary. SEO gets you free leads in the long-term (if you manage to get ranked). Search ads get you high-quality leads in the short-term... but you have to continue paying as the results come in.
It's not that hard to get ranked that turns into results. But if you are in the business of selling clicks then that is what you will push. I am not in the business at all. I just know what works as a dumb contractor who hire a guy to build a site, took some courses from Brian on SEO and now get 5-10 quality leads a week. I could get 15-20 if I put a little more time into it, but I am currently booked till April and scheduling June and July.
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Old 01-11-2018, 04:24 PM   #95
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:48 PM   #96
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Well I'm glad you stubborn guys don't believe in marketing or the internet for for your own lead generation.

It all depends where you want to be with your business. The best return for advertising dollars is the internet. I've done well into the 7 figures (my average job is about 11k) just based on people finding my site ranked well. I need daily leads while some guys need a few a month.

As long as everyone is making the money they want and are happy then there is no reason to change things.

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Old 01-12-2018, 04:41 AM   #97
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This is way out of my realm. I just noticed one quote.

"in the 9 years I've been here, plus several years experience before that."

That says alot.

I can't even remember my 9 years plus several years experience before that.

Now I feel old.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:12 AM   #98
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Well I'm glad you stubborn guys don't believe in marketing or the internet for for your own lead generation.

It all depends where you want to be with your business. The best return for advertising dollars is the internet. I've done well into the 7 figures (my average job is about 11k) just based on people finding my site ranked well. I need daily leads while some guys need a few a month.

As long as everyone is making the money they want and are happy then there is no reason to change things.

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I didn't see anyone that said they don't believe in marketing or the internet.

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You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:14 AM   #99
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Originally Posted by Bambamm511 View Post
Well I'm glad you stubborn guys don't believe in marketing or the internet for for your own lead generation.

It all depends where you want to be with your business. The best return for advertising dollars is the internet. I've done well into the 7 figures (my average job is about 11k) just based on people finding my site ranked well. I need daily leads while some guys need a few a month.

As long as everyone is making the money they want and are happy then there is no reason to change things.
You're really going out on the limb there! I advertise on the net but refuse to use Google because they are corrupt and dishonest. I vote with my pocketbook. I regularly get calls about fixing my "Google page". I have my site verified but I get duplicates added by someone with incorrect info. No one but Google could be adding them. So they screw up your "page" so they can charge you to fix it. It may not be illegal but I don't pay con artists, period.
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Old 01-16-2018, 10:58 PM   #100
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I would love to see some of your results. Let's see an example of these primo ads you speak of.
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BTW you are violating TOS by not signing up as a Service Provider. You might want to reach out to a MOD and get that fixed before you get kicked.
Obviously the SP issue got resolved. New members who are SP's don't necessarily realize that requirement right away so it's good you advised Levi in a friendly way.

I would warn him though that us SP's must tread carefully responding to requests like the one you made above. If examples are provided that lead directly back to his site, that could trigger a flag, especially for a new member. We're not as free to post links as contractor members are.

In addition to forum rules, there's also the nature of our business model for those of us that help business owners make more money. Most of that relationship is held in confidence. Only in cases where a client provides a testimonial or grants permission can we provide examples beyond something generic to illustrate a point.

When you asked me for an example in post #90, I'll have to presume you're referring a contractor business model that books months out like a deck builder or remodeler because roofing, siding, insulation, gutters and such are different. I recall a statement made by a contractor in the first group when we met face to face several years ago and never forgot it because I admired his business savvy.

He told me in his early years he hired family like his wife to do the books but discovered that was bad in practice. She didn't enjoy it for one and he wasn't hiring based on qualifications. Over the years I've seen him add many team members and significantly grow his business. He gets LOTS of referrals and is booked solid, yet never lets up on his site or marketing. Last year he increased his budget even though he was already kicking it.

He also added an in house marketing manager in 2017 and even then, she was swamped in spite of the fact that I was already handling some of the load that may have otherwise been her responsibility.

You're right that's not necessary. But it is to propel in an upward direction. Not everyone wants that but if you do, you can't afford to rest on laurels.

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