Google And Home Advisor

 
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:30 AM   #61
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Originally Posted by NYgutterguy View Post
I still do Angie's and HomeAdvisor. Both make me money. HA can be a Pita sometimes. As a sub I expect the contractor to make money off of me so I guess this is same sort of thing.

My 3k website though has gotten me $200k worth of work in 2 years. Great investment


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But how many saw you on ha or Angie. Then went to your website as research on you then back to ha or Angie to contact you?

So the 3k you spent on website backs up action through a different source.

Just a thought....
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:31 AM   #62
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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You have to banter back and forth to make it work.

He favorite line was---let me ask you this---non-meaningful circular answers work the best when answering.

Tom
Can you record it next time for our amusement?
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:34 AM   #63
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Nope. Sales is, but dedicated sales people are not. You and I both know builders who've never hired a salesman, yet are pretty danged successful.

Same goes for any of the sub trades.

But yes, I'll admit my opinion is colored by the tactics employed by a great many of those whose only contribution to a project is making the sale.

I couldn't do my job without them, so I don't get your beef.
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:38 AM   #64
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I don't recall asking for your help or advice, you did you determine that? How can you review me from a website? That wouldn't be an honest review. You're proving my point.

FYI, I advertised with Google and a few others. Google charged per click. How do I know who's clicking? It could be them. I asked questions about particulars and the guy rambled on about presence and impressions and all kinds of other gobbledy gook. I don't fancy myself to me a towering intellect but I know when I'm being sold a smoke and mirrors. There's nothing new under the sun.

You pay, you go up front. Has little to do with relevance or quality of work or service. I quit using google for any searches, apart from their tracking because I am not interested in seeing who pays the most for top billing. It isn't an honest search engine and I'm not going to feed it.
I think he meant he would review your website and not do a review of your construction work. I could be wrong though......

Fyi MOTB........I think alot of guys don't promote their website here so that potential customers can't find them from here and choose not to hire them based on something said here. (They come here to vent about customers and such)
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:09 AM   #65
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I couldn't do my job without them, so I don't get your beef.
What beef? Just calling a spade a spade. Symbiosis works for you, fine. Doesn't mean I need it.
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:24 AM   #66
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I think he meant he would review your website and not do a review of your construction work. I could be wrong though......

Fyi MOTB........I think alot of guys don't promote their website here so that potential customers can't find them from here and choose not to hire them based on something said here. (They come here to vent about customers and such)
You are correct when it came to looking to review his website. I had a few extra moments due to the holiday and was just offering the gentleman a courtesy to help position him better for marketing and lead generation. And unfortunately was met with a defensive reply, which is a coin toss here.

Fast Fred made an applicable comment in Post #49, "cbscreavtive and motb both have great ideas and are helpful, but contractors are rugged bunch,..." so I just go with the flow. I have "spoken to many here from the forums" and it is amazing how different people are when they answer the phone versus just typing away without really knowing how the people are reading and listening.

So my intent was to offer just some friendly advice, but unfortunately I do could not figure out who the person is. So I offered some friendly advice and was met with the traditional "I was not looking for advice rant." But I do not loose any sleep on this, and I also realize some may never care to learn what they are missing. And I also understand that some will never spend anything looking to advance themselves while thinking everything is a sales pitch, for which it is not, but it is what it is.

I see you are in Oregon (at least from your profile), so check out two company websites (Castile Construction & Vintage Window Restoration). Both of these companies went through massive transformations of growth, and so much occurred due to their marketing initiatives focused on the exact types of leads and customers they were seeking to have. Of course there is so much more to a business than marketing, but having a steady stream of More Quality Leads definitely helps is a great start.

And where you say "I think alot of guys don't promote their website here so that potential customers can't find them", that may be true, but really would be the wrong reason since I doubt someone would not hire someone based on what is said here. I think of it the opposite way, and that is, educate in a professional manner, and people will be curious to know who you are. They will click on your website and enhance your traffic activity ... but then again if you do not care about the marketing aspect then I guess it doesn't matter.

Have a nice holiday.
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:34 PM   #67
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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You are correct when it came to looking to review his website. I had a few extra moments due to the holiday and was just offering the gentleman a courtesy to help position him better for marketing and lead generation. And unfortunately was met with a defensive reply, which is a coin toss here.

Fast Fred made an applicable comment in Post #49, "cbscreavtive and motb both have great ideas and are helpful, but contractors are rugged bunch,..." so I just go with the flow. I have "spoken to many here from the forums" and it is amazing how different people are when they answer the phone versus just typing away without really knowing how the people are reading and listening.

So my intent was to offer just some friendly advice, but unfortunately I do could not figure out who the person is. So I offered some friendly advice and was met with the traditional "I was not looking for advice rant." But I do not loose any sleep on this, and I also realize some may never care to learn what they are missing. And I also understand that some will never spend anything looking to advance themselves while thinking everything is a sales pitch, for which it is not, but it is what it is.

I see you are in Oregon (at least from your profile), so check out two company websites (Castile Construction & Vintage Window Restoration). Both of these companies went through massive transformations of growth, and so much occurred due to their marketing initiatives focused on the exact types of leads and customers they were seeking to have. Of course there is so much more to a business than marketing, but having a steady stream of More Quality Leads definitely helps is a great start.

And where you say "I think alot of guys don't promote their website here so that potential customers can't find them", that may be true, but really would be the wrong reason since I doubt someone would not hire someone based on what is said here. I think of it the opposite way, and that is, educate in a professional manner, and people will be curious to know who you are. They will click on your website and enhance your traffic activity ... but then again if you do not care about the marketing aspect then I guess it doesn't matter.

Have a nice holiday.
Brian aka MOTB
I've talked to Forrest several times. He sends lots of folks to me that he(or staff) don't want to waste there time on that doesn't fit their model. I've sent several his way but never know if any have panned out.

His website has driven a boatload of traffic to his office (or at least his marketing has). Last I talked he was getting to million dollar sales mark. Maybe more now.


I think it's tough to mix websites ....customers.....internet......crafstman.....real ity all in one bucket and make it work smoothly. For instance if I made a commercial and made it run nationally on Superbowl Sunday. There is no way I could fly all over this country and give estimates for home improvement everywhere. That's the same feeling on here by some about dumping a bunch of money on a website that would just drive a bunch of people their way that they couldn't service anyway.


What I find funny is why some services like HA, AL, yelp houzz, etc etc. Are raved by a few contractors and others are beyond pissed about them. (I believe I know why it works for some and not others but there isn't enough room on this thread to explain it). I find the things like friend trusted app hilarious to unfold and flop (saw that one from day one).


I have already solved the issues with all these websites and formulated a website company that would make it a win win for everyone. I am only missing two things of information to pull it all off...............1) what's a computer?.........2) how do I turn it on? . Other then that I see where most everyone is missing the connections.


Angie isn't a computer genius nor a craftsman. But she is laughing all the way to the bank (she got me beat) she just found a way to deliver her idea and others agreed. The problem was it got lost along the way. Kodak film thought their business was making film .......wrong!........it was capturing memories(or images) regardless of the form to do it. Same thing with Xerox they thought their biz was replicating documents........nope.....it was transferring information equally . Now you can buy a house with never touching paper. And everyone involved has a copy of the information (buyers. Sellers. Bankers. Title companies). How many commercial projects are being built with ipads and laptops in the field vs rolled up blueprints? Now issues caught in the field. Changes can be made back at engineering and re distributed to everyone involved and no paper was used. You see where this is going......
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:51 PM   #68
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


I have to say though. There are two guys (motb and cbs) that are website guys interacting with tradesman here. That at least says something about staying connected. No body from porch yelp google......blah blah blah.

Maybe we don't all agree on things. But at least they're leaving the connection open to talk.
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:00 AM   #69
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I've talked to Forrest several times. He sends lots of folks to me that he (or staff) don't want to waste there time on that doesn't fit their model. I've sent several his way but never know if any have panned out.

His website has driven a boatload of traffic to his office (or at least his marketing has). Last I talked he was getting to million dollar sales mark. Maybe more now.

Angie isn't a computer genius nor a craftsman. But she is laughing all the way to the bank
It is a small world. I didn't realize you knew him that way. And Yes, you are correct, it is his Marketing that has transformed the way he grew his business by targeting specific types of clients. Whenever you have a moment, glance at his Team page and you will see a clever way I helped him expand attracting new people join his company. Of course there is a lot more to growing a construction company, but having the clients you desire is a fantastic start. Great that you two network with each other.

Regarding Angie, remember they needed to sell out to Home Advisor since they did not make money. They are the same company. So now Home Advisor is sharing its information with Angie, and vice versa. As time goes by, you will eventually get a solicitation from Home Advisor looking to try to sell more services knowing exactly what you are spending with Angie, and vice versa.
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:11 AM   #70
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


Hi folks,

Merry Christmas to everyone.

Full disclosure: I’m a customer of MOTB’s, and I’m very grateful for his help. The thoughts I’m about to express are entirely my own, however. Also, it’s been a couple days since I read the thread, so I’m going off memory.

I completely relate to some of the frustration that has been expressed. I wish things were different. For example, regarding SEO tactics, etc. It’s sad to me that Google measures the worthiness of a business by how active it is on social media. If two contractors both did a great remodel, is one contractor better than the other because he posted a picture of it on FB? Of course not. But as soon as I typed this I realized, “Wait – this is nothing new. This is just marketing, and it’s been going on since the dawn of time. Only the medium has changed.”

Fifty years ago, those same contractors would be in the same situation. It’s just that one of them may have chosen to print flyers with a picture of the job or have a radio announcer describe it to listeners. Either way, the contractor that does marketing is going to get more calls – all else being equal. And note that both contractors will be getting great referrals.

With more calls come more options, and that seems like a good thing. First, I could raise my rates or say no to less profitable jobs. This would allow me to spend more time with my family without sacrificing income. It could also allow me to hire a bookkeeper, or whatever. Second, I could say no to less enjoyable jobs – which means my days get more fun. Third, I could build a construction empire if that’s my thing (it isn’t).

So in the end, even if I have a successful business from just referrals, doing a little marketing seems like it can only help. To me it’s not an either-or situation.

And yes, marketing assistance is a service that people charge for, whether it’s television ads in 1950 or SEO advice in 2017. I see that as no different from me charging a customer for the service I provide to them (i.e. re-caulking a tub). My customer has a need. I fill it and send them the bill. That's the arrangement.

And yes, if everyone was applying the same SEO tactics, the tactics themselves might be less effective. But at least for now, not everyone is. So an opportunity exists, and to me it seems wise to take advantage of it.

BTW, Finehomebuilding had an article this month about reaching millennials:
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017...ial-homeowners

Again, I’m not a “marketing guy”. I was an engineer for 20 years and have zero personality. I’m just looking around at what I see and asking myself what makes the most sense.


Thanks,

Steve
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:22 PM   #71
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Fifty years ago, those same contractors would be in the same situation. Itís just that one of them may have chosen to print flyers with a picture of the job or have a radio announcer describe it to listeners. Either way, the contractor that does marketing is going to get more calls Ė all else being equal.[/I].

That is absolutely not true. I know of plenty of contractors who had no advertising to really speak of and had more calls than most in the yellow pages. It's not the same. If I sent out a flyer 20 years ago, another contractor could not knock my flyer out of their mailbox by spending more on their flyer. Today a competitor can knock you down or out of your placement on search results. You can spend a ton of time and energy and the guy with the most coin will win.

With more calls come more options, and that seems like a good thing.

More calls does not mean more options. It means more calls. I would rather have 10 quality calls than a 10 mixed in with 100. You can weed most of those out with a good strategy.

First, I could raise my rates or say no to less profitable jobs. This would allow me to spend more time with my family without sacrificing income. It could also allow me to hire a bookkeeper, or whatever.

True, or you could just start charging more now.
Why do you need more calls to raise your rates or not take profitable jobs?


Second, I could say no to less enjoyable jobs Ė which means my days get more fun.

I do that now.

Third, I could build a construction empire if thatís my thing (it isnít).

Only if the calls you are getting are profitable.

So in the end, even if I have a successful business from just referrals, doing a little marketing seems like it can only help. To me itís not an either-or situation.

Again, if someone is booked 3-6 months out,
it actually could do harm. Being the guy that is always busy isn't a good thing all of the time. Adding more leads on an already full schedule isn't desirable.


And yes, marketing assistance is a service that people charge for, whether itís television ads in 1950 or SEO advice in 2017. I see that as no different from me charging a customer for the service I provide to them (i.e. re-caulking a tub). My customer has a need. I fill it and send them the bill. That's the arrangement.

And yes, if everyone was applying the same SEO tactics, the tactics themselves might be less effective. But at least for now, not everyone is. So an opportunity exists, and to me it seems wise to take advantage of it.

As a contractor encouraging more contractors to do it is self defeating.

BTW, Finehomebuilding had an article this month about reaching millennials:
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017...ial-homeowners

Again, Iím not a ďmarketing guyĒ. I was an engineer for 20 years and have zero personality. Iím just looking around at what I see and asking myself what makes the most sense.


Thanks,

Steve
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:34 PM   #72
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Nope. Sales is, but dedicated sales people are not. You and I both know builders who've never hired a salesman, yet are pretty danged successful.

Same goes for any of the sub trades.

But yes, I'll admit my opinion is colored by the tactics employed by a great many of those whose only contribution to a project is making the sale.
I'll mostly agree with you Tins but the problem is attaching a stigma to an entire profession based on a perception or even your own experience. None of us have enough personal experience to be qualified to judge all.

Plus, every business is different. Just like your point about good companies being successful with no real sales people, others depend on sales people. Neither approach is inherently good, bad, right, or wrong. It may be one way or the other for each person or business, but that doesn't mean the same standard applies to someone else.
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Old 12-28-2017, 02:42 PM   #73
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


Not surprisingly, I had a lot of catching up to do with this thread. Fast Fred's comment that Brian quoted about about contractors being a rugged bunch stood out to me too. It's not as if I've been personally insulted or had accusations based on assumptions made against me though. Being a thin skinned creative type who lives in a bubble, I don't know if I could handle that kind of abuse. I've been here long enough to notice other clues regarding the truth of Fred's statement.

If the liveliness of this discussion proves one thing, I've already summarized it in my previous post. No single strategy fits all.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:22 PM   #74
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I'll mostly agree with you Tins but the problem is attaching a stigma to an entire profession based on a perception or even your own experience. None of us have enough personal experience to be qualified to judge all.

Plus, every business is different. Just like your point about good companies being successful with no real sales people, others depend on sales people. Neither approach is inherently good, bad, right, or wrong. It may be one way or the other for each person or business, but that doesn't mean the same standard applies to someone else.
Yet you did just that with contractors.

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Old 12-28-2017, 04:18 PM   #75
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Yet you did just that with contractors.
Did what? I'm not following your meaning.

The only what in my quoted post was attaching a stigma and I fail to see how I may have done that. Any such perception you may have gotten to suggest that was not intentional.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:30 PM   #76
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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As for HA, that's a self inflicted wound on the contractor trade. Had more contractors a decade or so ago followed Brian's (MOTB) advice and built a strong web presence that could be found by people looking, HA would not have been needed. The "I don't need no stinkin' web site I'm busy enough without one" attitude created a vacuum of customers actively looking and not finding. HA stepped up to the plate and found contractors willing to finance lead gen they should have done for themselves. They created this monster and now complain about it.
There's your stigma.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:11 PM   #77
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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There's your stigma.
Thank you for clarifying. Do I not have this right as a HO? I'm not a contractor. I'm your potential client. In response to my words quoted above you said something to the effect that these kinds of potential customers are self absorbed snobs looking to take advantage of you. That's a paraphrase of course but it's your own generalization which is a stigma in reverse even if it might prove true in many cases.

In reality, Rob, we could keep this kind of exchange going indefinitely and accomplish nothing. If I was trying to stigmatize contractors I wouldn't be here trying to help and offer perspective from this side of the fence. How else are you going to receive it? There's no group of HO's here to chime in.

Besides, the prevailing attitude I was referring to from 10+ years ago has since diminished and your own web strategy has obviously grown. The "I" in "I don't need no stinkin' web site" failed to consider the buyer and I guarantee this attitude had more than a few buyers sharing my perspective, they're just not here to back me up, nor does it matter as much as it used to.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:23 PM   #78
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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nor does it matter as much as it used to.
Just an afterthought, it's not that it no longer matters, but for clarity, having more contractors realize the importance of a web site makes it less of an issue since the "I don't need no stinkin' web site" attitude has significantly diminished.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:24 PM   #79
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Thank you for clarifying. Do I not have this right as a HO?

You told Tins you had a problem with him attaching a stigma to one group. So it has nothing to do with your rights, just you telling someone else that you have a problem with something you did yourself.

I'm not a contractor. I'm your potential client.

You are not my potential anything.

In response to my words quoted above you said something to the effect that these kinds of potential customers are self absorbed snobs looking to take advantage of you. That's a paraphrase of course but it's your own generalization which is a stigma in reverse even if it might prove true in many cases.

So what, I never told anyone that they couldn't do that, you did. While already having done it in a previous post.

In reality, Rob, we could keep this kind of exchange going indefinitely and accomplish nothing.

You assessment of the accomplishment of our conversation is not relevant.

If I was trying to stigmatize contractors I wouldn't be here trying to help and offer perspective from this side of the fence.

Yet to did just that. Your presence here does not emphatically prove that at all.

How else are you going to receive it? There's no group of HO's here to chime in.

I have no idea what your point is, but again,
I never said you or anyone else that I had a problem with stigmas.
You did.


Besides, the prevailing attitude I was referring to from 10+ years ago has since diminished and your own web strategy has obviously grown.

Like I said, I recognize that it has value. I do not recognize, as you claim, I am missing anything if I didn't have it if I am booked for months with no end in site.

The "I" in "I don't need no stinkin' web site" failed to consider the buyer and I guarantee this attitude had more than a few buyers sharing my perspective, they're just not here to back me up, nor does it matter as much as it used to.
Who are these "I"s you speak of. They are figments of your imagination. I haven't seen a single contractor from 10 years ago complain that they are lacking in business due to not having a web presence. Please provide just one example of this epidemic you claim exists. At least to the point that warrants your attention.

What actually happened is a contractor questioning the implication of Google and HA joining and creating a false result based on relationship and not real relevant search results. You claimed HA wouldn't be here if contractors had not had the attitude that they don't need a stinking website and HA filled the void. You have presented ZERO evidence that this theory is remotely close to reality. In fact I presented a good argument that gave a better explanation for the rise of HA and other LGS's. They would have flourished regardless of the number of contractors on the web.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:26 PM   #80
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Just an afterthought, it's not that it no longer matters, but for clarity, having more contractors realize the importance of a web site makes it less of an issue since the "I don't need no stinkin' web site" attitude has significantly diminished.
Again, most good contractors don't need a website to be successful. This is the fallacy in your logic. It's nice, but certainly not NECESSARY to be successful.

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