Google And Home Advisor

 
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:57 PM   #41
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Hi Rob,

Actually you are somewhat correct when you say "If just a small fraction of my competition did what I am doing online, it would cease to be effective." That is where the opportunity lie since the vast majority of your competition is not consistent in their marketing and there is an opportunity.

And from my perspective it will take a LONG TIME for the market to be saturated. Companies like HA purchased AL for $500M simply because they believe it is still 5 to 7 years off to even worry about that topic.

And Yes, you are absolutely correct, that I love to point out how so many are simply missing a great opportunity. Some will view it as criticizing and others will view it as opportunistic education. So much about marketing, websites and SEO is subjective. My personal objective is to not debate, but rather simply guide a handful to dramatically change the course of how they approach their business.

And unfortunately so much can not be done in a forum free for all format. There are many that need someone to be specific about their business, and follow up too.

CBS and I (since you referenced his name too) have different, yet overlapping business objectives. I will not comment on his approach but I would like to elaborate on mine.

Using your online environment as an example, I mentioned to you about responding to the nice reviews.

Without knowing about your website company relationship, I randomly glanced at one of the first services (Kitchen Remodeling) and I noticed the lead picture has an alt (Picture Description) of "0416 Farabee (205)" when it should have a permutation of "Kitchen Remodeling".

Without knowing who is doing the Facebook posts, I would say you are doing a great job creating a larger following, but you can do so much a better job as guiding visitors from your posts to your dedicated webpages for your services and towns.

So in your case, as with so many contractors, the plan for the future is to simply be aware of the items your are missing, fix them, and then do better as you add new content. But of course there is only so much one can do on a forum that is specific to each company.

This industry really lucks out since it really doesn't take much to be ahead of the majority. So many will look to fight marketing, avoid it, or simply be resistant to paying to have professional support.

I realize in your case it is different since you have learned, and you also have paid someone to do a website. There are so many ideas that you can continue on by yourself (i.e. Facebook) and fix your website (with your website company), and expand upon your website (with and without your website). In your case, a little continuity will keep you ahead of the competition for many years to come.
Problem with Facecrack is audience. I don't reach but a small fraction of my followers when I post something. I have to pay to play. Not really what I am looking for. Especially since I am booking for April and May od 2018 with no end in sight.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:06 PM   #42
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


HA called me for the first time last week. Kept the guy on the phone for 45 minutes while I was grouting tile. Finally hung up on him in the middle of one of his sentences. It was nice of him to keep me company.

They have called back twice since, just haven't had a mindless job where I needed the company.

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Old 12-22-2017, 05:46 PM   #43
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Brian,

I get what you are saying, but that still doesn't address my point that none of you guys will answer. If just a small fraction of my competition did what I am doing online, it would cease to be effective.

So my question is this:

Yes, your and CBS's strategies will work in the current market (unsaturated with competition), but what is the plan for the future. What should we be doing that will matter when the market is saturated with competition. Seeing that you guys constantly criticize or, at the very least, love to point out how most contractors are not taking advantage of the current potential of online marketing.

Rob
I think Brian already did a good job with this so there's only so much I can add to it.

First, and as Brian indicated, a significant small fraction isn't happening. I have yet to see a market anywhere close to saturation. Being good at being a contractor and being good at business and marketing are very different disciplines. There seems to be a connection between the work you guys do and being willing to seek professional help. In theory, it does seem a point could be reached where things could cease to be effective. But in practice the prevailing attitude of contractors is preventing this from happening.

I also like how Brian explained the reasoning for us pointing out how opportunity is being missed. It may sound like criticism, as if we're saying, "You dummies are missing out." No, I think Brian's use of the term opportunistic education is more accurate. If the majority of your competition is missing it, and they are, our efforts to point this out simply mean the few who pay attention to our "criticism" get to enjoy the benefits.

One point that hasn't been made and I don't think I've mentioned this here in a while, Google favors the first in line to a fault. This is directly relevant to help answer your question. Call it seniority since this flawed concept is found in many or most workplaces. Whoever has been there the longest has the most job security even if they're a complete screwup and a newer hire is a much better worker. Google applies this faulty thinking.

That means if you're the first in your market to put serious effort into your online marketing, you make it exponentially harder for someone else to dethrone you. And even if they succeed, rebounding is not all that difficult.

It's unlikely I'll be here any more between now and Christmas so I'll just end by saying Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to everyone.
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:55 AM   #44
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I think Brian already did a good job with this so there's only so much I can add to it.

First, and as Brian indicated, a significant small fraction isn't happening. I have yet to see a market anywhere close to saturation. Being good at being a contractor and being good at business and marketing are very different disciplines. There seems to be a connection between the work you guys do and being willing to seek professional help. In theory, it does seem a point could be reached where things could cease to be effective. But in practice the prevailing attitude of contractors is preventing this from happening.

I also like how Brian explained the reasoning for us pointing out how opportunity is being missed. It may sound like criticism, as if we're saying, "You dummies are missing out." No, I think Brian's use of the term opportunistic education is more accurate. If the majority of your competition is missing it, and they are, our efforts to point this out simply mean the few who pay attention to our "criticism" get to enjoy the benefits.

One point that hasn't been made and I don't think I've mentioned this here in a while, Google favors the first in line to a fault. This is directly relevant to help answer your question. Call it seniority since this flawed concept is found in many or most workplaces. Whoever has been there the longest has the most job security even if they're a complete screwup and a newer hire is a much better worker. Google applies this faulty thinking.

That means if you're the first in your market to put serious effort into your online marketing, you make it exponentially harder for someone else to dethrone you. And even if they succeed, rebounding is not all that difficult.

It's unlikely I'll be here any more between now and Christmas so I'll just end by saying Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to everyone.
I figured you two wouldn't answer the question directly.

As more contractors do what you suggest you have changed the landscape and it will no longer work or at the very least will be much harder than today.

And I didn't know what planet you are living on but I see placement change on a weekly basis. I've been on first page and then 3rd page in a matter of weeks.

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Old 12-23-2017, 01:56 AM   #45
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


You guys got stuck on the word saturated. It would only take 30-40 contractors to saturate the market and make theses method less and less effective.

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Old 12-23-2017, 04:58 AM   #46
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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I figured you two wouldn't answer the question directly.

As more contractors do what you suggest you have changed the landscape and it will no longer work or at the very least will be much harder than today.

And I didn't know what planet you are living on but I see placement change on a weekly basis. I've been on first page and then 3rd page in a matter of weeks.
They are sales hustlers and will say whatever they think will benefit them the most. And think people are too stupid to see through it.

Anyone in business is a salesman to some degree since you have to sell yourself on some level. I've made my living being straight up with no bull and people can tell. A lot of those strictly in sales, for whatever reason, believe they are smarter than the average bear.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:59 AM   #47
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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HA called me for the first time last week. Kept the guy on the phone for 45 minutes while I was grouting tile. Finally hung up on him in the middle of one of his sentences. It was nice of him to keep me company.

They have called back twice since, just haven't had a mindless job where I needed the company.

Tom
Awesome best post in the thread, been there done that. But man 45 mins is a long time, I usually can't last more than a few minutes listening to their bs
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:11 AM   #48
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A HA dork called me last week, I could barely get a word in. I usually hangup but I was in a mood. Told him I had been there, done that and it didn't pan out. He said they are much improved now and don't charge for work you don't do. I said yeah that was a big part of the problem, how did you know? Looks like I was not alone.

I didn't buy the much improved BS either. Once you burn everyone in town where do you go? I guess try and start all over.
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:18 AM   #49
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my opinion

cbscreavtive and motb both have great ideas and are helpful, but contractors are rugged bunch, every year thousands of people think they can get rich off remodeling a bathroom, building a deck etc. The problem is within a few years (or months) the game is over for them, they've robbed one job to support another, they don't know what they are doing to begin with and on and on

The Contractors who actually survive, have a legit business, and deliver a product job after a job are leary of everyone and everyone. Jobs are created by repeat customers and referrals only. You become jaded, skeptical, and out right judgmental. At least this is how I approach work every day. It's not a bad thing at all, I just need to be on my toes 24/7. Being jaded has actually made me successful.

The computer and tech industry is desperate to scam off of the construction industry. companies like amazone want to sell someone a toilet have it delivered to their home, then have me install it for pennies on the dollar, while they mark up my labor as well as the toilet making a profit while doing very little. It is on me and I'm liable for any failures. Since we live in a country where a majority of consumers are looking for the lowest price possible this type of business structure is the future.

But.... many of the crunchy non conforming contractors out there aren't buying. The new kids on the block are, they see it as a great way to start out. Instant leads, instant work, etc. but they don't realize they are getting scammed and will not succeed.

I have delt with houzz, they suck too, I got in an argument once with them over the type of customers they can bring to the table. I told them that most of their customers are cheap, lookie loos, and have unreal expectations. The saleswoman started reading off all these made up stastitics, which was too funny, because you could tell they were prepared. I told her they were all lies and to take my company off their website I made a mistake.

My internet precense is very limited and I like it that way, if my website was to disappear tomorrow, I wouldn't care. I told my "web people" and I don't care about sales or marketing or getting customers online. They were sort of blown away by that idea. I told them the only purpose of my website should be: a portfolio/resume of my work, company, skill set, and what I can do for the customer.

This internet hook up stuff is garbage. end of my rant
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:53 AM   #50
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


Agreed for the most part fred, but Davinci up in your neck of the woods only does luxury stuff and credits Houzz with a lot of his work

Currently I don't do any of it.

Couldn't agree more on leaches and techies/paper boys not knowing what they are doing. Hope they go bankrupt trying. They don't do anything but screw people over intentional or not.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:51 AM   #51
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


Sales people ride on the backs of those who actually produce. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't work hard, but bottom line it's a parasitical relationship. Not the sort of lifestyle I've ever been able to respect.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:00 AM   #52
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Sales people ride on the backs of those who actually produce. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't work hard, but bottom line it's a parasitical relationship. Not the sort of lifestyle I've ever been able to respect.
There is a difference to me between a salesperson at a company with able builders to handle operations and a company where a salesman is running the show...

Like a service writer at a dealership and the mechanics. If the service writer is trying to fix cars and takes money for it and doesn't know what he is doing or doesn't hire good mechanics he's a piece of ****.

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Old 12-23-2017, 11:05 AM   #53
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


I still do Angie's and HomeAdvisor. Both make me money. HA can be a Pita sometimes. As a sub I expect the contractor to make money off of me so I guess this is same sort of thing.

My 3k website though has gotten me $200k worth of work in 2 years. Great investment


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Old 12-23-2017, 11:09 AM   #54
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I don't make money out of my subs pocket. My clients pay me
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:11 AM   #55
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I don't make money out of my subs pocket. My clients pay me


Kinda What I meant. I Give then a price and they add in whatever their markup is.


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Old 12-23-2017, 11:15 AM   #56
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Kinda What I meant. I Give then a price and they add in whatever their markup is.


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Its a good relationship with a good contractor and a good sub. I have trade contractors that would probably not be able to own a business if someone wasn't selling for them. Certainly not at what they charge me. They are good at their trades but not sales people at all.

A good contractor is doing a he'll of a lot more than selling. Except maybe my gutter guy. We have worked together for years and I don't think I have ever given him any direction other than where my pipes were and what they wanted lol

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Old 12-23-2017, 11:18 AM   #57
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Its a good relationship with a good contractor and a good sub. I have trade contractors that would probably not be able to own a business if someone wasn't selling for them. Certainly not at what they charge me. They are good at their trades but not sales people at all.

A good contractor is doing a he'll of a lot more than selling.

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I know a bunch of guys that only sub and only do new construction because of that. I do homeowners too because I'm able to sell. Not that I'm some smooth talking salesman but after doing same thing for 25 years my confidence sells for me.


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Old 12-23-2017, 03:00 PM   #58
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Awesome best post in the thread, been there done that. But man 45 mins is a long time, I usually can't last more than a few minutes listening to their bs
You have to banter back and forth to make it work.

He favorite line was---let me ask you this---non-meaningful circular answers work the best when answering.

Tom
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:28 PM   #59
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Sales people ride on the backs of those who actually produce. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't work hard, but bottom line it's a parasitical relationship. Not the sort of lifestyle I've ever been able to respect.
Sales people are just as vital as any other part of the build process.

Perhaps you are confusing the notion that since 90% of sales people are unethical sleaseballs, all of them are.

90% of any profession is crap.

I've been blessed to have several of the very best RA agents to work with. they are vital to an organization.
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:13 PM   #60
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Re: Google And Home Advisor


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Sales people are just as vital as any other part of the build process.
Nope. Sales is, but dedicated sales people are not. You and I both know builders who've never hired a salesman, yet are pretty danged successful.

Same goes for any of the sub trades.

But yes, I'll admit my opinion is colored by the tactics employed by a great many of those whose only contribution to a project is making the sale.

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