Do You Run One Leggers?

Grumpy

Doug asked in the thread about lead services if I run one leggers. I noticed my answer to get very long winded so I opened a new thread...

Doug, No problem running one leggers here. My sales system is setup on a long term basis with the customer. We don't care if we don't "close" on the first sitting. We encourage the customer to take a step back and examine all the quotes apples to apples, if that's what it takes to make them feel comfortable about their decision, and then we educate them on HOW to properly compare apples to apples.

I don't even ask for the sale anymore if I see the obvious signs of stalling. The way of the "tin man" of the 70's are dieing. Consumers are more educated and thus make more educated decisions. Do I lose some sales because I don't pressure the customers? I am sure I lose a few here and there. The only time I pull ouot the big guns is when I have gone back and forth with a customer and they really want to sign up but are holding back for what ever reason. I feel like I am doing them a favor by stopping their procrastination, and I have only had to do this a few times.

We have almost zero cancellations. Customers hire us because they want to do business with us and for no other reason. The last cancellation I had was two years ago when I admittingly put undue pressure on the home owner to show a trainee salesman the tricks. It was no suprise when she cancelled 2 days later.

I take a very consultive approach. I give the customer all the INFORMATION they need to make an educated decision. Then I explain differences between possible systems, as a consulatant would. Then I propose my suggested system and explain their benefit, then I tell them the cost. The bottom line is this: When it is all said and done, if the customer wants a good quality system at a price that is fair to both them and us, they have no reason NOT to hire us...and all I do is explain that to them.

Grumpy

Here I can summarize everything I just said above into somethign more understandable... I take the approach of a commercial salesman and apply it to residential. Anyone who has experience selling commercial, or business to business (b2b) knows what I am talking about.

Seldom can you pressure businesses to buy and often times decisions are made by committiees.

dougchips

Grumpy, do you try to have both homeowners there and settle for a one legger- or- do you set up the apt. and show your product to whoever is there?

Grumpy

I don't bother trying to make sure both will be home, so long as one will be. I know that goes against everything ever "sales" trainer has ever told you but that's not how my system is setup. When I was a full time salesman, I was closing 42% using this method. No pressure closes... Almost Zero cancellations... Almost all sold over the phone after the initial visit. It's a long term close. I tracked the averages and it usually takes 2 months from first visit until the sales comes back BUT then again I have closed some on the spot, and I have closed some on my first call back 3 days after the initial visit.

It is very important to meet every customer, obviously try to meet whom ever will be making the final decision, but meet someone! In my biz measuring takes 5 minutes. The rest of the time is spent educating the customer and making sure all their questions are answered and really making sure they fully understand what they are buying. "It's not what you pay, it's what you get that matters."

Obviously some typical sales talents come into play such as finding common ground, but really all you are doing is proving to the customer you are qualified, and allowing them to get to know you.

A high pressure closer usually has zero chance a customer will ever call him back asking him to come sign the deal. Also most "closers" I know don't even bother to call customers back after the initial visit because they know they exhausted every avenue. They know they made the customer feel so uncomfortable that the customer tossed their info as soon as they managed to get them to leave the door.

My sales system relies heavily on being in constant contact with the customer. Calling periodically and sending out cards and/or coupons is what lands these deals. Let's face it sometimes customers are not ready to sign up that night! Sometimes they are budgeting and won't be ready until the kids go back to school or perhaps waiting on their tax return. Sometimes they do want to interview other contractors to make sure you aren't blowing smoke up their butts, and if you properly do your job and shine line a diamond amongst chunks of coal, I say what do you have to be worried about?

If you are properly targeting the correct customer base which matches with the types of services you offer, then all you have to do is explain to them that you are offering what they want and wait for the sale to fall into your lap. Most salesmen make it alot harder than it really is because they are afraid to lose the sale. You're not going to win them all! Nobody's that good... and well you already know my opinion about people who say they are.


Here is how a typical conversation goes when "I" am meeting a customer. I say "I" because I don't go into the same depth with the people who call that get passed off to my other sales team. First I simply verify their information, name address etc... Then I ask them to describe what they want done. Finally I ask when they would like to meet to go over the project in more detail. We set a day and time and I make sure to be there on time, organized, neat, and clean.

There really isn't much to it other than just being a genuine honest person, but ya' gotta' know your product to pull it off.

Glasshousebltr

No one leggers here.....however I have chased a few wheel chairs.

Bob

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Bob

dougchips

Grumpy, I try to stay away from one-leggers. I use to be open to the idea until I went to a sales conference and the crowd was asked how many people would make a 15k purchase without their spouse's present...only a few raised hands. My sales approach is a one stop close. I do not beat people up and toss out the lead when I leave, however one stop is my goal. I am flexible enough scheduling appointments that most of the time I can get both to show up.

I am still tripping over not asking the lady if we can have her husband present. I am not comfortable saying "will your husband or girl wife be present" or "I need the person/persons that you sleep with to be there". I end up with "do you own the house yourself?" If the answer is no, I will state that it is very important to have the other homeowner present and hope that they do not reply "he is dead" or "we are separated"-----almost no way of asking without hurting some feelings for a small percentage. Some people recommend "are you the only decision maker or we need both decision makers present" I think that consumers might read into this and feel that I want the man of the house there.

Gordo

I use will all the decision makers be present. Do not worry about what the HO will read into your question.

As evidenced on this board, people 'see' things much differently than others.

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Looks like some pros were here.

Double-A

"Who else will be responsible for deciding about the work you're asking to have done and will they be available to ask questions of me while I'm there?"

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

marc

Here is my fealling about running one leggers.
DON'T DO IT.
Nothing good can come from it.
First you know that the answer you will get is (You wouldn't ask me to make a $15K decision without at least running it past my spouce) How could you answer yes to that? YOU wouldn't do it.
Second........and here's the realy bad one. If the spouce thinks your price is to high.....and why wouldn't he/she....(that's all they have to judge you with.) They will tell everyone that your prices are very high, "whatever you do, don't call them because there prices are way out of line" "They tried ripping off my wife because I wasn't there"
Who knows what else they say?
My point is that it's not worth going there. You will not sell the job and you may get a bad rap.
Why not turn it around a little during a one legger. Start asking questions that they can't answer alone. You can come up with questions that they can't answer evan for something as simple as vinyl siding. Ask them how they would like to end the siding and start the soffit. What do you think they will say? The most common answer I get is.......Well I don't know, how do you normally do it? I answer, well I don't know, there are a number of ways that it can be done. How are the other guys you've been talking to doing it. You know the answer will be that they never mentioned that. We then say.....Then how do you know what you're getting?
Keep asking these type of questions until you get..............Well, maybe you need to come back when my husband/wife/father is here. That's when you set an appointment to see all the decision makers. Does it work every time? NO, but it works often. When it doesn't is when I will respectfully decline to bid and thank them for there time.

Glasshousebltr

Back in my Tomcat days I remember running one. a referral. It was the wife wanting the master bath re-done. The husband was a cop and she was rather under dressed. Nothing like a pissed fella with a gun. I ran like a sweating Arab from the airport.

Bob

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Bob

Grumpy

Marc, that's because you operate by the typical rules of sales, and I think outside the box. You hire closers... I stay as far away from closers as I can. IMO nothing good can come from hiring a closer, in the long run. In the short run they bring in numbers but they over promise, and basically do what ever it takes to get the sale, even if it is unethical. THIS kind of activity will tarnish my company's reputation.

I think outside the box. Doug said "Who would make a $15k purchase without their spouse present?" I ask "Who would make a $15k purchase on the spot, only thinking about it for a few minutes or maybe an hour?" I say home improvement sales is a long term propisition. I totally understand all the statements that ANY sales trainer will tell you, and they are all true... IF you are a closer and you want the sale that night.

Why do you think sales people have such a negative sterotype? It's because of "closers" and high pressure tactics used to "close" the sale in the first sitting. As I have said before people don't always want to be closed on the spot. There are tons of variables which may be legitimately keeping them from signing, and people certainly don't want to be pressured.

Numbers do not lie, and like I said when I was full time sales my closing ratio was much higher than most. I contribute this to the fact that I don't operate like most.

dougchips

Grumpy, I forgot where I got this from, I think one of the Hanley mags. The average homeowner thinks about a remodeling project for 2 years before making a buying decision. So for 2 years they have thought about spending the 10 or 15 k (price increase). When offered financing, they are only spending xx per month for x amount of years.

I am always open to different views however, all of my training centers around a one stop deal.

Grumpy

Mine as well, which is why I threw it all in the garbage and built a real system from scratch. If it works for you go with it. I could easily make it work for me, it had and does work for me when I need it to work for me... But it's the sterotypical B.S. customers expect from their contractors; therefore I choose not to use it.

I'm not saying to not try to close, what I am saying is to leave the door open to go back later for the close. Don't push too hard. Too many closers will push and push and push for the sale and this just pushes some customers away. There is no back door for a "be back" sale. My data shows that most of my customers take 2 months to make decisons, however I have also sold some jobs on the spot and sold some jobs YEARS after the initial meeting.

Mike Finley has said something to the lead service providers which everyone agrees with and I feel applies 100% to the "closer" scenario. Mike said something similiar to the following: "If you have a product with true real value it will sell it's self, however if you have to use alot of fine print, you are just selling smoke and mirrors.

Let me explain how that applies directly to the whole philosophy of one sit sales... First off if you are offering your customer what they want there is no reason for them not to buy. Do we agree? If you are offering the customer what they want at a price that is fair to both you and to them, AND you have knowledge and experience in the service that you are offering then there is no reason for them not to hire you. Do we agree? If you are secure in your service offerings and confident in your abilities both as a contractor but also as a presenter/educator/consultant of your services, then why would you even care if the customer wants to compare you to your competitors? Do we agree that customers don't always pick contractors based on lowest price?

Ok now the inverse. If you don't know what you are selling, then you are selling smoke and mirrors and you better close them that night before the perverbial anesthesia wears off. If your price is way above the norm (which isn't a bad thing) then you are going to want to close them before they get a chance to shop around. This is not to say that all closers are over priced or unaware of what they are selling.

My philosophy is simple. Find out what the customer wants, discuss their options, present what is BEST for their situation, give them a price that is fair (not cheapest) and the sale will simply fall in your lap with little effort.

Let me explain what I think a fair price is. A fair price is not the cheapest price. A fair price is a price that is win win for you and the customer. It's good that you make money! I'm usually not the cheapest when I bid, infact I have many scalps (bids from competitors on jobs I have won) and quite often I am thousands higher than the low bidder. However compare me to companys that work on high pressure, like any big box (Home Depot or Sears) and my price is lower.

What is fair is different to every company. What is fair is different to every region. What is fair is what the market will bear. My customers do usually pay more by hiring me but I also offer alot more. My target $1,000 per day per crew as my gross. This is what I consider to be fair. This is what allows me to sleep at night, but also feed my family and the families of my subs and employees. This happens to be a measly 35% markup.

When it is all said and done all I want to know is if "one sit sales" are so powerful, why have I always had a higher closing ratio than any of the closers I have met or hired?

Mike Finley

Good points. A couple of years ago I would have probably been more on the harder close side of the fence.

One leggers don't matter much to me anymore, I just put them in the system and they come out at the other end just like anything else. I'm also getting more like Grumpy about less pressure, maybe I just suck more as I'm getting older.

This was today...

I went back for my second meeting with my customer today. The initial meeting was with the wife. The 2nd the husband appears. Went over everything, asked them if it all looked good, asked them when would they like to do it. The wife looked at the husband, the husband looked out the window, the wife asked him the golden "what do you think?" question, he answers "I don't care it's up to you.", I'm not saying a word, she is silent, she finally breaks the silence with "okay it looks good, we should make sure...", I reply, "Fine not a problem, you've got my number, just let me know what you want to do." Silence. I remain seated, (this is just so ridiculous, they are like lambs and I've got a huge meat cleaver behind my back that they have no inkling I am capable of), yet I just don't even have the energy to even try. She finally says "Well it all looks good. What do you think Stan?" here we go again another round, I can just take them out of their misery, but it's 11:45 and I'm hungry and if they want to do the paperwork, with the final measuring I have to do, it will be another 45 minutes. So I stand up and end it for them. "Okay, just let me know, it was nice meeting you Stan. Irene, good seeing you again." and leave. I get to my lunch spot and begin to park and my cell phone rings, it's Irene asking me when can I come back to sign the contract.

A moron could have closed that deal, but like I said, I'm getting lazy, lunch was more appealing.

Double-A

And most morons would have tried too. I think you did the right thing, for two reasons.

1) Stan had something on his mind he wasn't going to talk about in front of you, or even hint at. Until that happened, no sale was gonna happen.

2) You respected their personal space. You could see you were a third wheel in this scene and you left. Had you stayed, you would have been invading their privacy and causing resentment to build.

Sometimes it takes a special (or experienced) moron to know when to just take a walk and let things stew a while.

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

go dart

i've run leads for 20 yrs and will set a " one legger" if necessary but my closings go way down for all the reasons marc stated. i'd probably be better off not running them at all. lighten my schedual, focus on more important things, heck go fishing. my best qualifier is my last appt of the day is 4:00 pm. if they'll come home early from work then thats a GOOD LEAD. deserving of my time and expertise. i can get most if not all of my selections, final measurments. contracts signed and deposit in one shot. if mike had to reschedual his close then that cost him not less than 150.00 to do it

Jim Garcia

There are all kinds of different sales scenerios in the "game". A good closer, (you) will recognize this aspect of the sales scenerio and execute the required play to make the deal. A good closer knows whether the decision makers need additional time to attend to other details of the deal, such as financing, think about it, compare prices or whatever. Sometimes it's the effort you provide to them after you meet them that signs the deal.
Jim

Grumpy

I think that is often times the case. However most so called closers I have met leave want the sale so badly on the first sitting that they totally make the customer feel uncomfortable thus there is no means to ever go back.


I feel anyone who starts off by telling the customer "I need both decision makers present" is going to instantly throw up that person's defences. I know I have had MANY people even hesitant to meet me at all. I tell them not to worry about a high pressure sale, and tell them I will mail the bid after our first meeting if that makes them feel more comfortable. Yeah I know it's not the best qualifying tool... however you have to acknowledge that because of "closers" people are edgy.

Also in the state of IL, there is a document that must be provided to all customers if the job is over $1000 and signed in the home. That document is called "The IL consumer rights form, for home repair purchases." This document has been mandatory since 2001 and established due to high pressure sales tactics. Having said that, "closers" give our industry a bad name as much as hacks.

Mike Finley

I have to totally agree with that. I mean think about it, people don't like to be sold, and most people will read between the lines with a comment like that and be thinking oh geeze, he's going to be pressuring us to buy.

That is really bizarre to me, they call you and don't want to meet you to do business with you?

Grumpy

It's really bizarre to me too. I mean you are going to potentially spend $5,000 (our average ticket) and not want to meet and get to know the person?

The problem is my trades are exterior and there are SO many companies that simply send out a roofer to measure and mail the bids or leave bids in the door never actually meeting anyone. This is how THEY want to do business. Having so many companies that operate like that makes it hard top operate the way I do, and meet every customer. Heck, for my own piece of mind I am interviewing them as much as they should be interviewing me.

Usually all I have to do to convince them is say "Sure I would prefer if you are home, otherwise I will only be guessing at what you want. Also I think it is really important to make sure you fully understand what you are buying because there are so many variables you might not be aware of." If they still want me to do a blind measure, I say, "I really need to meet with someone. You are going to have questions and I am going to have questions... and if you are worried about me pressuring you, stop worrying. It's not going to happen. If you say go away, I will go away." Usually that is all I have to do to get in the door. If at that point they still don't want to meet me I say with a reluctant tone in my voice "Ok I'll send out one of my guys to measure when we have some slow time, maybe a week or two, and give you a call back." 75% of those go in the trash, the other 25% only get ran if there is something in the immediate area.