duckdown

Making our wallets fatter is of course top priority, but should it come at the expense of making a customer happy? If you were to read the below link which is a customer perspective on the trades, what would be your takeaway?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=877395

Mike Finley

My opinion is that anybody like this:

...Is getting what he paid for.

If he had found the right company that would have delivered what he wanted and been willing to pay what it takes for somebody to be able to deliver it, he wouldn't be going through this.

He obviously hired somebody based on price (he doesn't trust the GC) (he doesn't trust who the GC will hire as a sub-contractor), instead of hiring somebody who is the total package and paying the higher costs assocated with it.

I suspect this is one of those guys who likes to hire AV 'specialist' who only charge for labor and don't mark-up thier materials.

If he had instead chose to hire a more expensive company, one that is the full package, that would held his hand from start to finish, put him into their proven system with a guaranteed outcome, it sounds like all he would have to do was answer some questions about what he wanted and write some checks, in the end his next step would be only to sit down and watch Saving Private Ryan in spectacular sound and video. Instead he's spending his time trying to know more than the company he hired.

Isn't that your take on it?

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Carport King

Sorry, I did not need to read your link because a client is number 1 at all cost. Yes there are time when your client can be off the charts to deal with sometimes but you would no this long before they become a problem.

I have walked from a customer at the time of sale because I felt that this is not someone we want as a client. If you have been doing this for any length of time you would no when to walk away.

If you have customers that slam contractors then shame on you because you must not no how to turn them into a client. If you have a client they will always be happy with you and refer your company.

tinner666

Looking for cheap only I think.

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Bodger

Is that really a question a good contractor who knows what he is doing would ask?
If "making a customer happy" means doing the job right and to all proper specifications, when would a reputable contractor ever put making his wallet fatter above that?

silvertree

The HO in spite of having no experience at this did some reading and now he's looking for someone to qualify his demands. Most likely that will be another a**hole like him.
He payed a price he thought was (fair), meaning lowball. Now he's smart enough to know you get what you pay for, so he's trying to ensure an ideal of quality, (which by his own admission) is something he read somewhere.
Being smart enough to understand he's probably not going to get the specs he thinks he should, he is backtracking to push the contractor into following his definition of correct, which since the job is already in progress means (workman like manner), or average. Now he realizes he wants first rate, but he only paid for OK. Typical control freak behavior, he will end up getting what he paid for unless the GC is spineless.

And yes HO is #1, after the contractor decides its a good enough fit.

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rbsremodeling

Christmas and Vacation time, I need a few extra bucks around those time.

But I am honest the other 49 weeks out of the year

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Being an idiot frees a man from having to live up to others peoples expectations.

BattleRidge

I know my customers aren't like that, most start as strangers and we are friends at the end. Cant say the same for working with contractors when I sub stuff. Definitely get stiffed more and more bs but thats because everyone and there dogs a contractor here.

kevjob

I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He believes he knows but in reality he read it somewhere, good luck with that.

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Highlands Ranch Co, bathroom remodeling
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Bodger

Well yeah, that goes without saying. Naturally we change our company names and start using fake license numbers right after Thanksgiving and through January, then we change back to the real deal.
And near the Fourth of July and on through Labor Day, same again.
Can't have those that have been butt=stabbed tracking us down for refunds.
But the rest of the time, you know, you gotta act right.
SMILEY THING! I AM KIDDING!

lawndart

Those businesses that choose to market based on price will have the unfortunate experience of dealing with customers like this.

To answer the original question. Yes we do care about satisfying our customers, while lining our pockets at the same time. A successful business does both.

Max Nomad

My grandfather used to be good for dropping quotable lines at random. One of them was "All Money Ain't Good Money". I was about 9 or 10 the first time he told me that and, like most kids who think that all adults are stupid or insane, I heard him but didn't give it a second thought -- until I got into business a little over a decade later.

That said, my team and I believe that doing the right thing by the customer is most important. This also comes with my business partner and I doing our best to avoid problem clients like the guy that wrote that post. Don't get me wrong, he might be a great guy but apparently he hasn't learned his lesson: Stop bull******ing around being an armchair contractor and hire some qualified professionals to do the job -- period. Like with any other specialty area like Law or Medicine, it's good for the customer to be educated on the subject but that should be the extent of it.

IMHO, customers that won't let you and your team do what you do should be avoided at all costs. Aside from having a high Headache-Per-Dollar ratio, it's common for their nitpicking and second-guessing your processes to cause the job to take longer than estimated, sometimes to the point of eating up all the profit and going into the red... hence the reality behind "All Money Ain't Good Money".

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duckdown

My take on the repeated problems expressed by customers is that we should educate them on how to write more detailed contracts. Instead of just saying we will do X, Y, Z for price $, we should consider referring to certain referencable specifications.

DavidC

Educate the customer on writing a better contract? Hopefully I just misunderstood that one, but running is more effective just in case.

Our contract state specifically what we will do, what standards we follow and what the client will do. I am confident that I could engage this client and make money as long as we stuck to the contract. (I doubt I would want to.) In that case the HO could have saved a bundle by not tipping is hand about being a very difficult client to handle. We charge extra for that.

Good Luck
Dave

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Grumpy

This is how some people percieve contractors. however these are the customers that we professional contractos need to look out for and avoid like the plague. Leave them to the low bidders and under qualified to deal with.

Would I care about pleasing this guy? Sure, I'd care about living up to my very very specific scope of work and agreed upon material list. I however also think from this very brief blurb that under no circumstances will this schmuck be pleasable (hey we've all had that kind of customer before). There is only so much we can do to please our customers, and I will often go above and beyond our agreement to please a customer. However only what is within reason. My ONLY obligation is to satisfy our agreement, anything more is charity.

Would I work for this guy who upfront told me he'd want m to do the work to HIS specs? Probably not. I'd probably come up with a much much better spec than he could anyways. So If i were to do work for him, I would provide him first with MY spec, then if he wanted to make revisions he would sign off on a disclaimer similir to the following:

THe above specification has been provided by the Purchaser and Contractor is to adhere to this specification. This specification may violate manufacturer recommendations and/or building code and Purchaser takes full reponsibility. If this specificationf ails for any reason, Contractor can not be responsible for failures due to improper design by the Purchaser. In other words this specification can not be guaranteed nor waranted. If the purchaser wishes a contractor workmanship guarnatee and manufacturer warranty, please contact the Contractor to provide a specification which will meet manufacturer recomendations and local building code.

I have had to use similiar disclaimers in the past, although that was just written off the top of my head. Again, I'd probably walk away if I were in the financial position to do so.

Some people go through life thinking everyone around them sucks, when inr eality the ONLY things these strangers have in common is this jerk... They fail to see that they are the common denominator in the equation, in other words they suck.

Hey don't get me wrong I am ALL for a customer being in the know and doing their due dilligence, but I am the professional and if they think they need to give me any direction on what I am doing... I have obviously failed as a professional. I have failed to build their confidence. I have failed to build their trust. I have failed to properly assess the customer during our meeting, AND most importantly I probably failed and made a mistake on my bid since guys like this usually hire low bidder.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Mike Finley

This has been and always will be my point exactly. When you become more than just an installer things change dramatically. When you just someone who works by the hour, doesn't mark up matierials or products and are there just to install anything the customer provides, that is a totally different business then what Grumpy is describing and attracts 2 different types of customers.

When you provide a total solution, you are the expert, like Grumpy elluded to - you are the professional, not just some monkey, some hired hourly installer- as a professinal you will listen and solve the customers problem, specing out the best solution to the customer, specing out the best products, materials and construction methods that will deliver what he wants as a finished product. When this is the situation, it's very simple, if the customer wants to buy his own products, wants to control the process - YOU HAVE THE WRONG CUSTOMER IN FRONT OF YOU. It's that simple. When you run a professional service that is set up to deliver a finished product and a customer acts this way, the customer is in the wrong place.

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dirt diggler

Hmm, how do I say this ...?


No - you do not operate a business for the purpose of pleasing other people.


Now ... a properly ran business will not operate in a manner that allows customer satisfaction to be sacrficed for a dollar.


Make sense?




That said - I think your real question (based on the attached thread) is "should we adjust our business methods to fit a client?"


No. Absolutely not. I have a specific reason for operating the way I do --- to be profitable. I have analyzed my business six ways from Sunday - and I've found what works and what doesn't. When I follow what works - I will be profitable.

Now, if I were to deviate from those methods --- I would lose profit.




If anything, I think that builds confidence in my clients. It tells them that I've got the experience to know what works and what doesn't --- and that if I run into a problem, I'll get it taken care of. It shows them I am structured and organized.

I find that showing that I am in control will bring customer satisfaction.


Again, it's all a matter of finding the right client - rather than just "a" client.

(btw - adjusting "scope of work" is a "change order")


I predict more horror stories in 2009 because so many guys are starving for work. They'll drop their pants and pay to get f**ked just because they're scared they won't have work. It will happen. Just wait.


Learn your business. Develop it - and stick to it. People will respect you for this. If you go in being a jellyfish, you're going to get used and abused - as you deserve to be.

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Thanks in advance!!!

outlaw

Duck down- I like you You give me something to laugh at

Your "no mark-up on material" not to mention others.

You seem like a good guy. Hope you learn how to run a business before its too late.

I don't want to cheat anybody either. Especailly not my family.

duckdown

I will state this one more time. I don't markup materials, I do however get a higher labor rate.

I am 99% certain that I work less hard and make more than most here using this approach...

Mike Finley

That's some funny sh*t right there!

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