Advice from users of Google Adwords - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

MarcD · 10-22-2009, 11:05 AM

Hello I am looking for some general advice from google adword users.

For those of you who use google adwords when you started were you indexed in google and have good seo ?

If not did using google adwords help seo at all.

Basically I am going to be using google adwords, however my site is brand new not even finished. I have almost 0 seo working and was thinking i should wait to do any online advertising like this until i get more indexed and listed. Would anyone else agree disagree with this.

Thanks.

PressureWashE · 10-22-2009, 11:23 AM

adwords is good for a site that is not ranked highly on Google. You are pretty much paying for first page position, You need to be patient with it, and set aside a budget. use there key word tools and target 4-7 quality keywords. Also make sure your site, looks good, becasue if you are going to spend this money on adwords and then your site looks bad, you are waisting your time.

I have used adwords for a while and I like it.

John

J. Sullivan · 10-22-2009, 02:52 PM

Quick answer:

PPC isn't going to help your SEO rank at all. But it will drive more traffic.

For SEO, you're going to need a whole lot more than Pay Per Click (PPC). Adsense is a big topic, and I'll be back with a little more detail later on tonight. Right now I've got some work to do!

carolinahandyma · 10-23-2009, 04:39 AM

Set your daily budget but first have a great looking website. Also, be careful of where your adds show up if you post beyond the Google search engine to Google partner sites.

cbscreative · 10-23-2009, 12:20 PM

I'm going to second the advice given above (or fouth might be more accurate). Don't spend money on PPC or Adwords without knowing your site will convert. There are companies that specialize in this and your investment will be well worth it if you research first.

joesmith · 10-30-2009, 09:06 AM

Start with PPC, and once your site is indexed and you're ranked well, you can cut down the PPC a little bit.

Before bidding on any actual terms, do some research. Type in those words you want to bid on and see what other ads come up, and don't feel bad for phrase matching everything at first. Set your daily budget low until you have a better feel for what kind of traffic you get.

Giftcard · 10-30-2009, 10:08 AM

adwords is great for seo, bid low don't try to be on top. The more keywords the better.

cbscreative · 10-30-2009, 11:22 AM

With the last couple posts, I would re-emphasize what I said about getting professional assistance. I do not do this service simply because it's highly specialized (not my expertise). PPC and AdWords can be a money drain, and advertising under key words or phrases just because someone else is does not mean squat. If you do happen to follow the pattern of someone who is succeeding, they will likely outgun you.

Let me do a real quick demo of a problem I often see. I came up with this on the fly, and sure enough, a perfect example:

http://www.google.com/search?q=how+t...8&sourceid=ie7

Notice the PPC ads selling kitchen remodel simply because I used that in the search term, but because I use "how to" in my search term, those ads are irrelevant (yes that can be filtered, but ill informed advertisers waste money by not being careful enough, or not seeking qualified assistance). This is not a problem with the "organic" results, but the PPC advertisers who don't know what they're doing are throwing away money. You would not want to blindly follow them.

The real pros in this industry use well planned ad strategies with something called "landing page optimization." This just simply means that a page is built specifically for the advertising so it has the best chance of converting the visitor into a buyer. The two need to function together in perfect harmony. It may not be my area of expertise, but I do need to know enough about it to point clients in the right direction when they need it.

I believe the DIY approach is very dangerous unless you have several months to educate yourself. Even a web guy like me is not qualified to provide this unless they have commited themselves to understand all the variables. I know just enough to seek specialists when needed.

BTW, there are some hilarious stories about "context ads" gone wrong (AdWords showing up in inappropriate places).

Giftcard · 10-30-2009, 02:29 PM

Yes it helps with SEO. Why pay a professional to do what you can? Because they can do it faster, however if you have the time you can complete thee same task. At the end of the day they can't get you listed any higher. Some big compaines buy the top spots on the organic SE and you or the WEB SEO can't get ahigher listing without paying the company that has the rights.

Not SO Organic.

Giftcard · 10-30-2009, 02:33 PM

The quickest way to get listed at the top of the SE, is to have fresh live content attached to your site. for google that is

suite1 · 10-30-2009, 03:07 PM

Guys there are books on SEO ( search engine optimization ) i.e getting your site up the rankings and Web 2.0 ( Linkedin and Facebook ) that are easy to read.

Although hiring a professional is ok, you can learn what they know in a short amount of time.

Also they are 2-3 day courses and on line courses that can teach what the " Pro's " know.

I believe that the web will be the new " yellow pages" , but web marketing is also the new "sucker" business as well.

So here's my two cents.

My suggestion is if you are going to do web design and web site marketing your self there are books and courses out there. In no time you can even impress yourself.

If you want to hire someone I would also read up on the web from qualified know web experts ( not the ones that call themselves experts).

Then when you are hiring or using a web designer or web marketer, you will know if you are being taken for a ride or getting your money's worth.

Also I would suggest that you ask your web designer to have control of you web site. As the Giftcard guy said above, you need to add fresh content. I know most of you are wondering what fresh means.

It means that you add weekly ( daily is better) information about your industry.

Jeffrey Cohn

cbscreative · 10-30-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giftcard

Some big compaines buy the top spots on the organic SE and you or the WEB SEO can't get ahigher listing without paying the company that has the rights.

Not SO Organic.

Please quote your source for this information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suite1

If you want to hire someone I would also read up on the web from qualified know web experts ( not the ones that call themselves experts).

Then when you are hiring or using a web designer or web marketer, you will know if you are being taken for a ride or getting your money's worth.

Excellent advice!

However, I both agree and disagree with any DIY advice. Am I double minded to say that? No, but here's what I mean. Can you learn the basic principles? Absolutely! I do agree that they are not super difficult to understand provided you are getting good information. But they take time, and the implementation takes time.

The myth about it being easy can be quickly debunked just by pointing out a simple fact. For almost any key term you put into Google, there are well over a million matches (probably scores just in your local market). There are only 10 spots available to be on page 1. If you think getting there and staying there is easy, you're kidding yourself (plus you'd be a prime target for get rich quick schemes).

Zinsco · 10-30-2009, 04:20 PM

I've found Google Adwords to be a sorry disappointment. Around here locally, for electrical keywords you have to bid about $12. That's a lot to spend when you consider the only people clicking your ad are other electricians or people trying to sell you light bulbs.

Also, I would totally opt out of the Content and Search Partner networks, as they will cost you dearly because of click fraud. Google does not aggressively police click fraud because they make money on fraud.

Everything about Adwords is a secret, how page ranking is done, how they determine "page quality score", the algorithm they use to index search results, it's all a big secret.

And good luck if you have a problem, unless you're a big player, you will not get an ad rep.

J. Sullivan · 10-30-2009, 04:58 PM

@ Giftcard

Pardon my joke here, but are you ####ing high?

I mean, giving advice is great, but giving the wrong advice is horrible. And that stuff you just said is the most ridiculous stuff I have ever heard.

1. PPC has absolutely no bearing on SEO whatsoever. You WILL NOT RANK HIGHER USING PPC. It will not make your page go up or down in the search engines.

2. SEO is not black magic. Everyone and anyone has the means to learn it. Just as anyway and everyone could learn a trade. The reason you would go with a pro is that you either a) don't have the time to learn it, b) don't want to learn it, or c) want it done a whole hell of a lot faster. As with absolutely everything else in life, it takes time to develop the skills. There is no quick fix for SEO, there is no magic button. You do it wrong, and you spend a whole hell of a lot of time and money fixing it to get back to the top.

3. You cannot buy your way to the top. This is the biggest lump of crap I have ever heard. Who told you this?

Where do I go to purchase the top spot for my rankings?

I just ring up Google and they say "Hey, you want Number 1? 3 monthly installments of 45.50 will be billed to your credit card and you'll have it forever. Sure it would completely go against the whole reason search engines exist. You're absolutely right that if people found out we did this we would lose all credibility and someone else could swoop in and take over the market. But we're going to do it anyway."

Can you get me that number, I have a couple keywords I'd like to buy.

YOU CANNOT BUY THE TOP SPOT OF ANY SEARCH ENGINE!!! Telling people otherwise is flat out lying.

The whole point of a search engine, the reason it exists, is to provide the user with the most relevant answer to their query. Google doesn't care who you are or what you are doing, as long as the result is going to make their user happy. Happy user comes back to Google because they get them the right information quickly. Happy user is exposed to more PPC ads. Google makes more money.

@ Suite

Welcome to the forum, I see this is your first post. Don't let me piss in your cheerios, this forum rocks and is full of great people.

There are books that you can buy to learn how to build a website. There are books on how to learn SEO. There are books on how to build a house, make a car, fly an airplane, perform open heart surgery, hit a baseball, have better sex.

The actual skills to do so are not difficult to learn, no vodoo involved

However.

You can't learn it all in a book fella, you gotta do it and do it often to get real good.

Any book you buy is going to become rapidly outdated. The web is constantly changing and evolving, as are the factors that get you ranked. If you keep up with these changes, it usually means nothing. But if you have other things to do with your time, such as I don't know, running a business, you may not want to or have the means to keep up to date.

This is why you would pay a professional. A professional by the way doesn't mean Timmy who has a laptop and can build websites on the weekends. A professional is a person who's income is derived from building websites.

Should you have a real compulsion to learn how to build a website, visit this link http://www.w3schools.com/

They offer free tutorials on just about everything you could want to know about building a website.

Does that mean you are going to know the effect your design has on your visitors?

Can they tell you what marketing tools to use to raise conversion rates?

Will you know how to track your conversions, and know what to change to increase them?

Can they provide you with solutions to the real problems you face with your website.

I think you know the answer.

I just spent about 20 minutes writing and ranting about why to hire a professional, but I deleted every word. It's the same reason I bring my car to a mechanic when it's busted or call the plumber when my ****ter is broken. I could learn how to do it, but it would take longer and I want it done 100% right the first time.

When you when results and you want them now, you go to the pro.

I'm not going to convince anyone who doesn't believe that anyway, but ask they fellars with pro websites how they like em, and you'll get your answer.

I need a beer. Anybody else want a Guinness?

J. Sullivan · 10-30-2009, 05:02 PM

Sorry if I derailed the actual conversation fellas, I know you wanted to learn more about PPC.

Basically, do a lot of keyword research, try a small amount ($50 or so) and test it. If it works well, then continue to use and adjust. If it works poorly, scrap it or adjust.

Measure your results and adapt accordingly. Usually the payoff is not worth the investment, and you're website needs to be top notch to convert.

My $.02

Edit:

Oh and the fastest way to move up in rankings has absolutely nothing to do with adding fresh content. It's good for SEO because it increases overall keyword density and makes you look more active and having more valuable information (more value, Google loves value). Keep in mind your content has to be original, or Google will slap you for copying.

It will build your rankings, but slowly. The better way is to acquire one way links to your site from relevant websites that Google likes and trusts. But even that alone won't do it.

But what do I know.

Tim Garrison PE · 10-30-2009, 05:53 PM

I have spent a lot of money on PPC with Google, Yahoo, and MSN (before Bing). It didn't do squat for me. And it's not like I didn't fiddle with different wording and tinker with each ad to try to optimize it. I did many times.

In a nutshell, PPC will increase traffic but I didn't find that it increased BUYING traffic enough to justify the costs. My advice: Instead of spending big bucks on PPC, spend the dollars on optimizing your website for search engines (SEO). Hire a good website consultant and pay them to make your site look professional and be findable in the free section of Google and the others. You'll be dollars and time ahead.

cbscreative · 10-30-2009, 06:26 PM

I was just thinking I should have brought this up earlier, but because our discussion is about PPC and AdWords, guess what kind of ads we're seeing on this page. Does anyone here think the advertisers are getting their money's worth?

Giftcard · 10-30-2009, 08:50 PM

At&t sales rep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbscreative

Please quote your source for this information.

Excellent advice!

However, I both agree and disagree with any DIY advice. Am I double minded to say that? No, but here's what I mean. Can you learn the basic principles? Absolutely! I do agree that they are not super difficult to understand provided you are getting good information. But they take time, and the implementation takes time.

The myth about it being easy can be quickly debunked just by pointing out a simple fact. For almost any key term you put into Google, there are well over a million matches (probably scores just in your local market). There are only 10 spots available to be on page 1. If you think getting there and staying there is easy, you're kidding yourself (plus you'd be a prime target for get rich quick schemes).

Zinsco · 10-30-2009, 08:53 PM

The most expensive keyword on Adwords is: Mesothelioma at $99.44 per click.

http://www.mediapost.com/publication...art_aid=115431

Giftcard · 10-30-2009, 08:55 PM

You can buy your way to the top according to the sales rep at&t they where trying get me to buy the service i was on the phone for about an hour.

Just because you don't no doesn't make me crazy and I learned about the tricks with google adwords from other contractors about 2 years ago and it works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Sullivan

@ Giftcard

Pardon my joke here, but are you ####ing high?

I mean, giving advice is great, but giving the wrong advice is horrible. And that stuff you just said is the most ridiculous stuff I have ever heard.

1. PPC has absolutely no bearing on SEO whatsoever. You WILL NOT RANK HIGHER USING PPC. It will not make your page go up or down in the search engines.

2. SEO is not black magic. Everyone and anyone has the means to learn it. Just as anyway and everyone could learn a trade. The reason you would go with a pro is that you either a) don't have the time to learn it, b) don't want to learn it, or c) want it done a whole hell of a lot faster. As with absolutely everything else in life, it takes time to develop the skills. There is no quick fix for SEO, there is no magic button. You do it wrong, and you spend a whole hell of a lot of time and money fixing it to get back to the top.

3. You cannot buy your way to the top. This is the biggest lump of crap I have ever heard. Who told you this?

Where do I go to purchase the top spot for my rankings?

I just ring up Google and they say "Hey, you want Number 1? 3 monthly installments of 45.50 will be billed to your credit card and you'll have it forever. Sure it would completely go against the whole reason search engines exist. You're absolutely right that if people found out we did this we would lose all credibility and someone else could swoop in and take over the market. But we're going to do it anyway."

Can you get me that number, I have a couple keywords I'd like to buy.

YOU CANNOT BUY THE TOP SPOT OF ANY SEARCH ENGINE!!! Telling people otherwise is flat out lying.

The whole point of a search engine, the reason it exists, is to provide the user with the most relevant answer to their query. Google doesn't care who you are or what you are doing, as long as the result is going to make their user happy. Happy user comes back to Google because they get them the right information quickly. Happy user is exposed to more PPC ads. Google makes more money.

@ Suite

Welcome to the forum, I see this is your first post. Don't let me piss in your cheerios, this forum rocks and is full of great people.

There are books that you can buy to learn how to build a website. There are books on how to learn SEO. There are books on how to build a house, make a car, fly an airplane, perform open heart surgery, hit a baseball, have better sex.

The actual skills to do so are not difficult to learn, no vodoo involved

However.

You can't learn it all in a book fella, you gotta do it and do it often to get real good.

Any book you buy is going to become rapidly outdated. The web is constantly changing and evolving, as are the factors that get you ranked. If you keep up with these changes, it usually means nothing. But if you have other things to do with your time, such as I don't know, running a business, you may not want to or have the means to keep up to date.

This is why you would pay a professional. A professional by the way doesn't mean Timmy who has a laptop and can build websites on the weekends. A professional is a person who's income is derived from building websites.

Should you have a real compulsion to learn how to build a website, visit this link http://www.w3schools.com/

They offer free tutorials on just about everything you could want to know about building a website.

Does that mean you are going to know the effect your design has on your visitors?

Can they tell you what marketing tools to use to raise conversion rates?

Will you know how to track your conversions, and know what to change to increase them?

Can they provide you with solutions to the real problems you face with your website.

I think you know the answer.

I just spent about 20 minutes writing and ranting about why to hire a professional, but I deleted every word. It's the same reason I bring my car to a mechanic when it's busted or call the plumber when my ****ter is broken. I could learn how to do it, but it would take longer and I want it done 100% right the first time.

When you when results and you want them now, you go to the pro.

I'm not going to convince anyone who doesn't believe that anyway, but ask they fellars with pro websites how they like em, and you'll get your answer.

I need a beer. Anybody else want a Guinness?