RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped

Mike Finley · 03-19-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt

Even if this ruling gets delayed,its pretty much going to happen.
We should concentrate on what can be done to help our business survive .

The bottom line is we have to have a way to separate ourselves from those that don't comply ,so our costs can be passed along without losing jobs to anyone not taking the precautions.

Number one should be leveling the playing field.
I know its going to be tough,since enforcement is minimal,so we got to throw the burden and expense back at those who impose the new regs.

Found this blog started 2 days ago where this is pretty much laid out:
http://www.thecontractorcoachingpart...RRP-Lead-Rule/

I'm not convinced this is a done deal. Isn't one state already fighting it? I thought that was posted here a couple of weeks ago that the fight had begun?

If a big enough group could get together with a collective voice it can change this over-night.

**angus242** · 03-19-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

If a big enough group could get together with a collective voice it can change this over-night.

Little Jimmy's health + Sierra Club

vs deadly lead paint + greedy, child brain damaging contractors

I don't see this getting changed let alone repealed overnight.

**rselectric1** · 03-19-2010, 08:49 PM

Mike, Sayswho, etc. I have edited/update my post #75 in this thread to reflect what my instructor just told me via e-mail.

Appears to be an Illinois thing only so far.

**angus242** · 03-19-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rselectric1

Mike, Sayswho, etc. I have edited/update my post #75 in this thread to reflect what my instructor just told me via e-mail.

Appears to be an Illinois thing only so far.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/rr...x4/#post901051

WarnerConstInc. · 03-19-2010, 08:57 PM

Screw it. I am going to nail paneling over everything. Screw nailing, I am going to gun adhesive it up.

Thanks to lead, I am going to be the Paneling King!!

Woooohoooooooooo!!!

**rselectric1** · 03-19-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc.

Screw it. I am going to nail paneling over everything. Screw nailing, I am going to gun adhesive it up.

Thanks to lead, I am going to be the Paneling King!!

Woooohoooooooooo!!!

Make sure you add up the square inches of every nail though. Cant have you disturbing 6 square feet.

I think the equation is 3.14 x radius of the nail x number of nails. Not sure though.

Been a long day!

Edit-its radius squared, times pi, then multiply by the number of nails. LOL!

**angus242** · 03-19-2010, 09:05 PM

Maybe I'll get into the adhesive sales business. RS, how many pallets do you think I could store in my basement?

**rselectric1** · 03-19-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angus242

Maybe I'll get into the adhesive sales business. RS, how many pallets do you think I could store in my basement?

LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS.

Tom M · 03-19-2010, 09:11 PM

I wonder if this thing is ever real news at all if it weren't for the internet. I know if I paid a grand or so a year for a special membership I may be aware sooner but not the average contractor. I agree with Tom R the goverment is broke the legislation is bad, its been made by people who dont understand the industry. They will use the web and the certifaction money to let the rules play itself into effect. Take the training, let them get thier intial money grab then back off the certifaction and let it disappear. The power of the internet is strong, if you dont give the money they cant enforce it. I only grew more concerned when Greg wrote an article in the local newspaper, which scared the hell out of everyone and got the local lumber yards nervous. Like I said before, after they force us out of business they may say something different later but we'll all be screwed. No one can pay us now they certainly wont with cost exceeeding 5x the rate we have now. The whole thing is really unconstitutional, from fairly informing the parties involved to requiring a procedure that makes you less productive. Again if we were all showing up in hospitals because we were working with poisionous stuff like fools thats one thing but 32 years later? Come on man.........

**rselectric1** · 03-19-2010, 09:24 PM

If the EPA wants to provide us with more billable hours, thats all fine and dandy. I actually welcome it-BUT:

This is my absolute largest gripe with this entire thing:

They have dropped the ball so INCREDIBLY with regards to informing the public as well as contractors, that the playing field is not going to be level unless there is big time awareness, and enforcement. So far NADA from the powers that be. Just a crappy pamphlet and a website that nobody knows about.

If they would take some of our certified firm registration fees and put them into some public awareness campaigns, it would at least be a little easier for us legitimate guys to explain why our prices are higher.

THINKPAINTING · 03-19-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesD

Today I read that the IRS will be in charge of enforcing the new "health care" laws and will hire up to 12,000 new agents for that purpose.

All the government has to do is put the IRS in charge of tracking home owners and contractors who do remodeling.

I'm not smart enough to figure out all the details of how they will keep track of things, but every bone in my body says they could do it with tax returns.

The Federal, State and local governments kept adding rules and regulations year after year and good contractors used them to gain an advantage over illegal's and cheats. Now there's a law that goes beyond our comfort zone so there's an uproar.

My personal opinion is we're way to late in our effort to stop things like this. The fight should have been years ago, Do you actually believe the average Senator or Representative would have the stigma of voting against controlling something that poisons children? The survival of our freedoms, free enterprise and capitalism isn't on their minds nowadays.

Sure it is, the economy is number one and come election time it will be proven. VOTE THEM ALL OUT...... Call your senator , congessman and give them an ear full....

Tom M · 03-19-2010, 09:35 PM

RSELECTRIC your still arguing how they can enforce. You should be on the bandwagon of letting it disappear. Your an electrican you likely work for GC's, your busniess is going to suffer. Period the end. It wont matter if we all do it or not. NO ONE HAS THAT KIND OF MONEY TO LET YOU PUT ON THIS SHOW.

hiteams · 03-19-2010, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

If all you want to do is lay down a piece of plastic in a house that is newer than 1978 or one that is older and been tested to be free from lead then that would be your choice. Your choice would have nothing to do with the RRP.

If the house is older then 1978 and hasn't been tested to be free from lead and you trip the 6 sq ft or 2 sq ft in a hud home, you're doing full compliance. Containments, plastic, suits, clean up, disposal proceedures, verifications etc...

There is no partial requirements it's all or nothing. There is no easy containment with all you need is a piece of plastic on the floor.

Like I said - Time for your refresher course.

On your website you say you benefit the certified remodeler by providing education and enforcement.

You'd better educate yourself first or your first turn in to the EPA might have to be yourself on your next job.

I'm going to blame your trainer for all the wrong info you're giving out.

I assume you got the book during training. Look at page 4-6. Look at the "Requirements". It's like I said.

Also, we are suppose to follow the rule http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.1.1.13.3.1.1 Can't find in the law where it says moon suits, respirators, booties ...

"and you trip the 6 sq ft or 2 sq ft in a hud home" ... it's 6 sq ft per room not "in a home".

THINKPAINTING · 03-19-2010, 10:00 PM

The worst economy Ive ever seen, more billable hours not here if anything less and less HO's will do the project we are alredy seeing it.

Every single small business owner I know from independent truckers to bakerys are hurting and more and more jobs being lost. This is not the time to implement this law.

I am with ya Mike and I know a pretty good letter writer, see what I can do. In the mean time email, call your congressman, senator’s trust me they will listen, just mention Scott Brown..

If you do nothing the Sierra club, and EPA will just keep going until your forced out or making peanuts. Its mind boggling now how hard its getting to make a buck.

**rselectric1** · 03-19-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom m

RSELECTRIC your still arguing how they can enforce. You should be on the bandwagon of letting it disappear. Your an electrican you likely work for GC's, your busniess is going to suffer. Period the end. It wont matter if we all do it or not. NO ONE HAS THAT KIND OF MONEY TO LET YOU PUT ON THIS SHOW.

Calm down Tom, please re-read the post you are upset about.

I'm not for this at all. Yes it will affect my business because I am completely legitimate. I am an electrical contractor but also a residential GC.

If you think it's realistic to convince the EPA to just "make the rule disappear", then how do we do it? Better and way more connected men than you and I have tried and failed.

Guess what. We're stuck with it!

I'm all ears though. Tell us what you think will make this rule disappear!

EDIT-Tom, mind if I PM you and tell you what I've already tried to do and how I found out that nobody really cares?

TimNJ · 03-19-2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiteams

I'm going to blame your trainer for all the wrong info you're giving out.

I assume you got the book during training. Look at page 4-6. Look at the "Requirements". It's like I said.

Read 4-1 through 4-5. 4-4 specifically states to post signs.

TimNJ · 03-19-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiteams

I'm going to blame your trainer for all the wrong info you're giving out.

I assume you got the book during training. Look at page 4-6. Look at the "Requirements". It's like I said.

To expand on my post 4-6, just pertains to covering "Floors". I believe if you want a synopsis of what you need to do for interior containment you should read 4-9.

Tom M · 03-19-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rselectric1

Calm down Tom,

It was the look on your face that got me.

...I am fired up. I really am. This is my livelyhood its bad out there now we stand no chance with this. They screwed us by giving the regular folks money to flip homes like construction was a hobby rather than an aquired skill now they are going allow the DIYer to be exempt while we make ourselfs unaffordable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rselectric1

If you think it's realistic to convince the EPA to just "make the rule disappear", then how do we do it? Better and way more connected men than you and I have tried and failed.

Guess what. We're stuck with it!

I'm all ears though. Tell us what you think will make this rule disappear!

I did listen to that hearing on the Homestar program and NAHB was arguing our case and Masco supported it, kiss azz it may have been. They're program dont work without compliance from contractors. Keep giving the associations arguing for us a hard time they will note it.

BPWY · 03-19-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rselectric1

If the EPA wants to provide us with more billable hours, thats all fine and dandy. I actually welcome it-BUT:

This is my absolute largest gripe with this entire thing:

They have dropped the ball so INCREDIBLY with regards to informing the public as well as contractors, that the playing field is not going to be level unless there is big time awareness, and enforcement. So far NADA from the powers that be. Just a crappy pamphlet and a website that nobody knows about.

If they would take some of our certified firm registration fees and put them into some public awareness campaigns, it would at least be a little easier for us legitimate guys to explain why our prices are higher.

The reason there is no awareness so because this law is more about revenue enhancement and less about safety.

I'm a 7 yr former truck driver. Guess what? Most DOT laws are the same way. More about revenue enhancement and less about safety.
Like small towns that have "non truck" routes. Thats fine and dandy but how about marking them???? OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That would really cut into that small town's revenue stream. That is just one very small example.

**rselectric1** · 03-19-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPWY

The reason there is no awareness so because this law is more about revenue enhancement and less about safety.

I'm a 7 yr former truck driver. Guess what? Most DOT laws are the same way. More about revenue enhancement and less about safety.
Like small towns that have "non truck" routes. Thats fine and dandy but how about marking them???? OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That would really cut into that small town's revenue stream. That is just one very small example.

Thanks for the comparison. Very interesting.

Maybe it's time to move to Australia or something, huh

These dorks are passing laws faster than ever before. The founding fathers would be on prozac if they knew what was going on nowadays.

Land of the free?

03-19-2010, 08:49 PM	#83
rselectric1 View Profile rselectric1 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,018) Photos (0) Reviews (31) Projects (0) Toolbox (30) View All Activity Pro Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 7,018	Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped Mike, Sayswho, etc. I have edited/update my post #75 in this thread to reflect what my instructor just told me via e-mail. Appears to be an Illinois thing only so far. __________________ 220...221...whatever it takes!

03-19-2010, 09:05 PM	#87
angus242 View Profile angus242 Its all ball bearings Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (16,780) Photos (0) Reviews (2) Projects (8) Toolbox (7) View All Activity Its all ball bearings Trade: Tile Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Will County, Illinois Posts: 16,780	Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped Maybe I'll get into the adhesive sales business. RS, how many pallets do you think I could store in my basement? __________________ Angus L+M+O+P=C "Promise only what you can deliver. Then deliver more than you promise"

03-19-2010, 09:11 PM	#89
Tom M View Profile Tom M Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,886) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC/ Interior & Exterior Remodeling Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 1,886	Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped I wonder if this thing is ever real news at all if it weren't for the internet. I know if I paid a grand or so a year for a special membership I may be aware sooner but not the average contractor. I agree with Tom R the goverment is broke the legislation is bad, its been made by people who dont understand the industry. They will use the web and the certifaction money to let the rules play itself into effect. Take the training, let them get thier intial money grab then back off the certifaction and let it disappear. The power of the internet is strong, if you dont give the money they cant enforce it. I only grew more concerned when Greg wrote an article in the local newspaper, which scared the hell out of everyone and got the local lumber yards nervous. Like I said before, after they force us out of business they may say something different later but we'll all be screwed. No one can pay us now they certainly wont with cost exceeeding 5x the rate we have now. The whole thing is really unconstitutional, from fairly informing the parties involved to requiring a procedure that makes you less productive. Again if we were all showing up in hospitals because we were working with poisionous stuff like fools thats one thing but 32 years later? Come on man.........

03-19-2010, 09:24 PM	#90
rselectric1 View Profile rselectric1 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,018) Photos (0) Reviews (31) Projects (0) Toolbox (30) View All Activity Pro Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 7,018	Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped If the EPA wants to provide us with more billable hours, thats all fine and dandy. I actually welcome it-BUT: This is my absolute largest gripe with this entire thing: They have dropped the ball so INCREDIBLY with regards to informing the public as well as contractors, that the playing field is not going to be level unless there is big time awareness, and enforcement. So far NADA from the powers that be. Just a crappy pamphlet and a website that nobody knows about. If they would take some of our certified firm registration fees and put them into some public awareness campaigns, it would at least be a little easier for us legitimate guys to explain why our prices are higher. __________________ 220...221...whatever it takes!

03-19-2010, 09:35 PM	#92
Tom M View Profile Tom M Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,886) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC/ Interior & Exterior Remodeling Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 1,886	Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped RSELECTRIC your still arguing how they can enforce. You should be on the bandwagon of letting it disappear. Your an electrican you likely work for GC's, your busniess is going to suffer. Period the end. It wont matter if we all do it or not. NO ONE HAS THAT KIND OF MONEY TO LET YOU PUT ON THIS SHOW.

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03-19-2010, 10:00 PM	#94
THINKPAINTING View Profile THINKPAINTING nick@nite Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,031) Photos (8) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity nick@nite Trade: Painting Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mass/RI Posts: 1,031	Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped The worst economy Ive ever seen, more billable hours not here if anything less and less HO's will do the project we are alredy seeing it. Every single small business owner I know from independent truckers to bakerys are hurting and more and more jobs being lost. This is not the time to implement this law. I am with ya Mike and I know a pretty good letter writer, see what I can do. In the mean time email, call your congressman, senator’s trust me they will listen, just mention Scott Brown.. If you do nothing the Sierra club, and EPA will just keep going until your forced out or making peanuts. Its mind boggling now how hard its getting to make a buck. __________________ www.paintingexperts.com www.thinkpainting.net

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