New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

ChrWright

How is it classified?

Do they make the distinction between abatement work and RRP work?

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FremontREO

I appreciate RSElectric for keeping this on the burner since he is 100% correct that 99% of the contractors thinks this is a April 1 joke! During my training for the renovators they explained that a 6sf area for Lead Paint Renovators for window replacement goes as this: If the window area is less than 24"x36" (2'x3') and there is only 1 window being replaced than you don't have to worry abt the RRP form...UNLESS there is a government loan on the home such as HUD/Fannie Mae/FHA etc then its a 2sf area or 12"x24" (1'x2') window. If the window is bigger than a 6' x 6' x 6' containment zone must be built to retard lead dust contaminating the living area. Now I know that some of the abatement contractors we have worked with will charge $300.00 per containment zone built so there $$$ to be made IF you can convince the homeowner to pay for it!

FremontREO

Without naming names I found 1 Environmental Insurance Surplus Lines Agency out of Rocklin, CA that will charge $1500 minimum premium
for Lead and Asbestos Coverage or $.65 per $100 for coverage. Just more of the extra profits going out the door again! LOL the EPA figures that the "extra cost" to the homeowner will average $65.00 per job...

oldfrt

That's $65/sq/ft.

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rselectric1

Wow, it sounds like the hacks will prevail on this whole thing...until they are caught.

This is a MAJOR issue for all of us!

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ChrWright

I'll have to go back and look at the rule again, but I believe I was taught in my class that ANY window replacement work automatically falls under the rule and requires lead safe practices.

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charimon

I am guessing it will be mid 2010 before the insurance industry catches up with this. I am thinking that right now all lead policies are written for abatement. it will take a while before the actuarial end is even aware of a new market. or is willing to market a new policy before all the early adopters(contractors who want to have their hineys covered now for this thing) have finished paying for the more expensive policies...... But like anything the first companies that offer RRP riders will make the $$$.

Craig

ChrWright

Agreed. I'd be suspicious that any numbers right now are being thrown out on the high side. The underwriters probably don't know any of the details, so they're probably just quoting what they know they have numbers for.

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FremontREO

I think your right on this one. I just pulled up this companies web site and pasted it below. I think this may be for abatement but I haven't found any insurance policies for the renovator since I THINK its because there is such a "gray area" between the definition of renovator and abatement contractor. Gray area means liability to an insurance company.

Environmental Contractor Insurance ClassificationLimitsRates per $100 SalesMin Annual PremiumYour Total Sales

(numbers only ex. 1000)Your PremiumAsbestos & Lead$1,000,000,$0.65,$1,500 ?*Includes General Liability and Pollution Coverage for Asbestos, Lead and Paint RemovalMold Remediation$1,000,000$1.40$2,500 ?*Includes General Liability and Pollution Coverage for Mold RemediationProfessional, Pollution and General Liability Consultants or Contractors$1,000,000$1.50$2,500 ?*Includes General Liability, Pollution Liability and Professional Liability for Consultants and Contractors. This will cover Asbestos, Lead, Paint and Mold. Other Pollution coverages quoted separately.


What You Get When You Partner with *************:

• Our competitive liability insurance rates are as low as 0.45% of Sales - that’s just $4,500.00 per year for $1,000,000 in annual sales insurance. For 1 million in sales, this also includes Professional Liability, Pollution Liability, and General Liability coverages.
• Workers Compensation Rates for Asbestos Removal $9.48 per $100.00 of payroll compare this to your current rates many contractors pay a $15.00 rate or more.
• All insurance certificates issued the same day.
• All insurance certificates issued the same day.
• Standard Limits of $1,000,000 higher limits to 10,000,000 available.
• Minimum Premiums of $2500.00 per year.

That didn't paste to well ! Sorry

RCPainting

I asked my agent about Lead Assessor only, his response.

"Hi Chris,

Acting as a lead abatement inspector would not be eligible to be added to your current policy with Allied.

I did talk to a specialty underwriter and we would need to write a separate policy for professional liability which would cost at least $2,500 as well as a separate general liability policy which would cost about $750.

These are just an underwriters "best guess" and a full submission would need to be made to determine firm premiums. I thought this would be helpful to you to determine if this would be a viable business. You would have to do a fair amount of business to justify the premiums."

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oldfrt

I really believe that window replacement should be exempt if not from testing,at least from containment.


With replacement windows,usually just the stops are removed and replaced.
There isn't too much paint being disturbed especially if the windows are replaced from outside.
Most of any lead present would be "encased" with a few topcoats of paint, and chances for contamination would be minimal.
More contamination would have occured while the old window was being operated,so we'd be addressing an existing contamination.
A preliminary test should/could negate any necessity for containment if lead is not currently on sills and has been topcoated.


With new prime windows,the old unit can be pushed outside once the trim is carefully removed,limiting interior contamination.
Again,if the window was painted over a few times,chances for contamination would seem is minimal.

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ChrWright

I skimmed through the EPA Rule right after taking the class, and I seem to remember reading that they specifically tried to write the rule so that it wouldn't classify the work as hazardous. Even the protection worn by workers is "recommended" (at least by the EPA, OSHA has different things to say on the matter depending on the size of your company).

It's interesting reading, and surprising in many ways. A lot of this has been talked about by our trade organizations for YEARS. The NAHB even commissioned one of the studies the rule uses as supporting research. I'm unhappy the leadership didn't mobilize member contractors much much earlier to comment on the rules while they were still being finalized. Perhaps this did happen, and I'm just one who didn't hear about it.

It's a soup sandwich, and there's NO ONE that has a complete hold on what the next year will bring. I've yet to hear a cohesive position on the matter from the major orgs either. As president of my local NARI chapter, I'm planning to mobilize a group of members who have been through the course to conduct a PR campaign in our city--stump speaking at the various homeowner associations, and getting the word out to local media that this is coming.

I'm not happy about any of it, but I do see it as an opportunity to get out front in the public's eye on the issue as professionals.

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Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC/President @ Central Indiana NARI, Named to the 2010 REMODELING Big50
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MEL

What about siding?

What if you are putting vinyl siding over old wood siding?

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ChrWright

If you're putting holes in painted surfaces, you're technically doing work that falls under this rule. The hard part is quantifying it. The rule on exteriors is 20 square feet PER SIDE (unless it's a HUD project and then it's 20 SF TOTAL). If your work disturbs less than that, you don't need to follow lead safe practices--but notification rules still apply.

I'd still get the training. Any contractor who works on PRE-1978 housing needs to know the rules and how to determine whether a given project falls within it. Even if the project falls outside the rule, there are still paperwork elements that need to be met.

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FremontREO

I agree with all said but after being in the insurance business for 26 years I see this as a big liability issue for insurers and contractors alike. Personally I applied for the environmental insurance since we do a lot of remediation work in our gc business. During my classes I think the instructor started thinking I was some type of "EPA Plant" since I asked so many questions that they got tired of answering! What I think will happen is the "non surplus lines" carriers will put an exclusion on everyones general liability policy and will force the GC to purchase an environmental pollution liability policy. At least that is what the insurance company underwriters are saying to us....
Than again maybe they will think this is "no big deal"..?
From doing remediation work I think the big problem for contractors will be that gray area of what is abatement and what is renovator?

FremontREO

That is almost exactly one of the questions I asked in class and here is what I was told:
If you are covering a surface with a product that has a lifespan of 20years + and you are covering lead paint than that is called abatement. A painter in class asked what about painting over lead paint and here is the answer given: If it is tested and its lead paint than you need to scrape with the appropriate containment zones and cover with a latex paint since its lifespan is less than 20years....
Don't know if that is right or not but that was the answer...as I took it.

oldfrt

Here's some of the requirements;



What To Do Outside:

• Mark off the work area to keep non-workers away.
• Cover the ground and plants with heavy plastic sheeting.
• Close windows and doors near the work area.
• Move or cover play areas near the work area.

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charimon

In my opinion I would leave the lead (risk)? assessor alone. The Risk assesser is a higher level than the lead inspecter in the lead abatement world, a risk assesser can walk a job and determine areas that need testing and leave the other areas out where the inspector must inspect all surfaces. only Risk assessors and Lead Supervisors can make abatement plans (well so can a project manager but that is the only thing he can, No one gets licensed for that, do so that is a dead discipline carried over from the asbestos world). Almost all Risk assessors are government employees or specialists in environmental consultant firms. It is a highly regulated and expensive profession in its own right. The value of being able to clear your RRP sites before hand with this license is not enough to be worth the ongoing costs of having it.

Craig

ChrWright

I doubt they let you clear your own projects anyway, even if you did set up a separate company for it.

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Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC/President @ Central Indiana NARI, Named to the 2010 REMODELING Big50
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Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here

charimon

The key here is the wording in the contract. If you are covering lead paint with siding that is an "enclosure" abatement. If you are adding new siding that is a Renovation.

The key is in the contract. Keep it in the renovation side. your RRP firm license and certs have NO standing on an abatement...

Some Hoops for abatement:

abatement larger than 100 sf In NE you must pay an additional $200 large abatement fee

Inform the state 10 days prior.

inform the state job hours including lunches.

Have the unique abatement plan for that property.

all licenses, physicals, training certs on hand fro each worker.

OSHA documentation.

lead air sampling data to demonstrate all processes are under the action level or what actions are in place between the action level and PEL
only certified lead abatement workers with current physicals and fit tests.

a licensed lead supervisor present or with in one hour away (depending on where in the process you are)

Craig