New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

lbuttery · 06-04-2010, 02:54 PM

Fines has been stopped

Not yet, House has to pass the bill, Pres has to sign it

Lew

painter213 · 06-04-2010, 04:49 PM

Yes, but they are stopping the fines for now. That is only for the contractors that has signed up for the class, but not yet taken the class. If you have taken the class and found in violation then watch out. They really need to focus on informing the PUBLIC on the new reg's so as the home owners of the these pre-78 homes know the facts.

sk071077 · 06-04-2010, 05:23 PM

Let's say the house was built pre-1978. Then post-1978 an addition was built.

Do the rules apply if you are only working in the part of the house that was built after 78?

hiteams · 06-04-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painter213

Here's a new one for you. Fines has been stopped.

http://www.paintsquare.com/news/arti...rackid=7982520

Don't believe magazine and newspaper articles. This has been talked about in other post. Reference http://www.contractortalk.com/f115/n...00/#post947705

lbuttery · 06-04-2010, 06:16 PM

Yes, but they are stopping the fines for now

Benny:

Not yet, the bill hasn't passed yet

I talked to EPA yesterday and they have every intention of enforcing and giving fines until the Pres. signs the bill

Lew

FStephenMasek · 06-05-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painter213

They really need to focus on informing the PUBLIC on the new reg's so as the home owners of the these pre-78 homes know the facts.

And apartment owners, managers, and contractors who work on them.

There are a few TV commercials and print ads (supposed lead paint which is too watery to be real oil-based paint pouring into a baby bottle, sippy cup, and ceral bowl).
________
UrLittleAngel live

bert0168 · 06-05-2010, 08:01 AM

I still want to know what type of advertising for the RRP the EPA spent $28 MILLION on?

ApgarNJ · 06-05-2010, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert0168

I still want to know what type of advertising for the RRP the EPA spent $28 MILLION on?

It's the government, they know how to waste money. TV commercials alone all over the country, producing them, etc. is millions and millions of dollars.

bert0168 · 06-05-2010, 08:13 AM

Believe it or not I ACTUALLY heard a small news report on am radio (KYW 1060) on Thursday about the new lead rule and how homeowners are upset about the increase in cost this is going to bring to renovations.

They also mentioned making sure homeowners hired certified contractors.

Maybe it's a start.........

hiteams · 06-05-2010, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbuttery

Yes, but they are stopping the fines for now

Benny:

Not yet, the bill hasn't passed yet

I talked to EPA yesterday and they have every intention of enforcing and giving fines until the Pres. signs the bill

Lew

There are actually 2 bills. 1 passed and the other one is in committee. The one that is in committee is about delaying RRP. The one that passed, I talked about in post above.

lbuttery · 06-05-2010, 10:09 AM

Dean:

Yes, it passed the Senate but must also pass in the House and then be signed by the President

Lew

**ChrWright** · 06-06-2010, 10:22 AM

An interesting article from a California Congressional candidate:

http://www.paullazaga.org/content/ep...ents-draconian

Quote:

Sat, 06/05/2010 - 08:38 — paullaz
In April of 2008 the EPA issued a rule requiring the use of lead-safe practices applicable to renovation, repair, and painting contractors. This rule began its full effect on April 22, 2010.

In conversations with multiple contractors which this rule is applicable and with the increased knowledge obtained through training I have come to understand the draconian implications this rule will have on everybody who owns, rents, or uses pre-1978 property.

Compliance to the new rules will increase the cost to any property owner of pre-1978 structures with few exceptions. While it is important to protect children and others from unintended exposure to lead the rules established have little to do with practical protection and instead create an insurmountable cost, meaning that if property owners wish to remain in compliance their only practical option is to let the property deteriorate instead of investing in its maintenance.

Why would I come to this conclusion? Here are a few significant pieces of information.

Lead testing on most pre-1978 buildings would be required before almost any renovation, repair, or painting could occur. In California, due to acceptable test kits, this is estimated to be $400.00-$1,200.00 depending on the property.
If the property is not found to be lead free then extraordinary precautions must be used by the contractor when working. These are extremely expensive procedures and can add thousands of dollars in cost even on the simplest work, such as painting a bedroom. See http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/samplechecklist.pdf for a sample checklist of things that must be considered.
Your contractor must pay training & certification fees to approved parties and the EPA for the "privilege" of working on your property.
Failure to use certified personnel can lead to a fine of $32,500.
Lacking enforcement personnel the EPA is urging certified individuals to turn in non-certified persons in their training programs. So if you use an uncertified party you may be subjected to fines plus the cost of lead abatement procedures. If you try to use certified persons you could face thousands of dollars of extra cost.

Full information on the rule can be found at http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

The end result is damage to property owners, damage to contractors, and damage to residents of all pre-1978 property.

If you live, work, or own any of the affected properties you are severely affected, if you don't you will still be affected as your contractors will still bear the increased costs of these requirements. For contractors this will prove to be unsustainable and cost jobs and closure of small businesses.

The EPA has made this rule under the Toxic Substances Control Act. I believe this is more harming than healing and needs to be addressed immediately.

Tom M · 06-06-2010, 10:55 AM

So he's just a candidate that has acknowledged the RRP rule? He's acurately voicing the issue, lets hope other of potential power follow suite.

afkama · 06-06-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom m

So he's just a candidate that has acknowledged the RRP rule? He's acurately voicing the issue, lets hope other of potential power follow suite.

He's aware of the rule because he is currently the manager of a small paint store.

He is the Libertarian candidate against an incumbent who normally pulls over 60% of the vote.

He doesn't stand a chance.

hiteams · 06-06-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbuttery

Dean:

Yes, it passed the Senate but must also pass in the House and then be signed by the President

Lew

Lew,

One bill (supplemental appropriations act 2010, that has to do with fines) has passed both house and senate and is now awaiting Presidents signature. As noted in other post, this really doesn't delay the EPA from issuing fines.

The other bill (to delay certain RRP) has not even been voted on by the house or senate and is in committee (where it probably will never get out of committee).

lbuttery · 06-06-2010, 01:42 PM

has passed both house and senate and is now awaiting Presidents signature

Dean:

do you have a link for this ?

I can't find it anywhere

I see reports where the Senate passed it but nothing about the House

or what the Pres intends to do

Lew

hiteams · 06-06-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbuttery

has passed both house and senate and is now awaiting Presidents signature

Dean:

do you have a link for this ?

I can't find it anywhere

I see reports where the Senate passed it but nothing about the House

or what the Pres intends to do

Lew

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-4899

lbuttery · 06-06-2010, 07:42 PM

Dean:

thanks I found it in sec 2002

I suspect Sept 30 will come and go and the situation won't have changed concerning getting "most" contractors to getting certified and complying with the law

It was mentioned earlier in this thread and other threads that the onus of compliance and providing a lead safe environment should fall to the homeowner

If the homeowner wants renovation work done then they should have the house tested and then do abatement if needed, for either the whole house or at least for the proposed workarea

The average contractor shouldn't have to worry about lead

Lew

FStephenMasek · 06-08-2010, 07:32 PM

To help put the issue in perspective, here are our findings from 32 of of most recent inspections (these are all stucco buildings, unless noted, so exxterior wood referes to eaves & fascia, windows, door frames, and such, not the entire exterior):

date built
#units
findings
1956
16
1 wall of one dining room, 1 old door used to make a garden tool storage shed

house 1941, house 1968
2
1941 house: exterior and interior wood trim, windows, closet walls, wood fence

1968 house: fascia board (no other part of eaves)

1976
8
no lead

1977
4
no lead

1949
2
exterior and interior window components, door frames, base boards in one unit, roof trim, "handyman" with sander had gone nuts on windows, dust all inside

Approx. 1925
1

exterior only inspected.

Fascia, rake boards, front door frame, column top trim (eaves are boxed, siding is covered with stucco, old window sills are covered with metal)

1951

4

interior of Unit A inspected to date, no lead

1955

32

exterior wood siding, windows, exterior side of the entry doors, down spouts, garage door frames, round metal railings, a few interior walls and wood items in some units

1964

46

heavy metal stringers on one exterior stairway - owner replaced

1963

44

LBP on the exterior side of 21 of the 44 entry doors (100% checked), the metal barbecue hood, and the wood picnic table set

1947

1

exterior wood, bathroom door frame

1951

1

exterior wood, bathroom walls and window frame

1961

2

exterior door frames

1961

2

exterior wood

1944

2

exterior wood, one interior door & frame

1969

4

none

1964

4

none

1948

12

all exterior wood, down spouts, kitchen sink & stove walls & ceilings, bathroom walls & ceilings (except where replaced), two living rooms walls in one unit, a few scattered interior doors and windows, plaster in carport

1960

3

none

1961

4

none

1962

4

one stair stringer

1960

3

mail box

1958

3

none

1930

1

front door frame, two plaster walls in the main room, wood window frames, door frame from storage room to water heater room, water heater room walls and ceilings, restroom window

1914 - wood siding, not stucco

4

exterior wood siding and trim, neighbor?s building adjoining back yard, old door in back yard, roughly half of the interior wood surfaces, five plaster walls

1962

83

the exterior of three entry doors (100% checked), one bathroom door, and metal railings on the exterior second floor walkway and stairs

1928

16

Exterior woodwork, kitchen and bathroom walls& ceilings, interior woodwork

1928

51

Exterior woodwork, down spouts, some basement wood columns, scattered interior woodwork, some kitchen and bathroom walls & ceilings, some living room walls

1972

99

mail box, bollards

1968

8

two interior door frames, several exterior door frames (some only one of the tree parts), one exterior door, west side metal railings & fence, owner replaced all of the door frames and the door, replaced or sandblasted the railings

1955

12

All exterior metal (sills, gutters, down spouts, railings), all exterior wood (except entry doors), laundry door frame, base moldings in two living rooms, walls and ceiling in one kitchen

1964/1965

8

Exterior of laundry room door

________
Laguna Bay II Condos

Boxcar · 06-09-2010, 05:27 PM

I could be alone on this but I think that is just too much sway...no permit for you you licensed and insured and bonded and ....contractor. What??

06-04-2010, 02:54 PM	#2001
lbuttery View Profile lbuttery New Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (21) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity New Guy Trade: 2D/3D CAD designs for builders/remodelers Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: LOCKPORT NY Posts: 21	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This Fines has been stopped Not yet, House has to pass the bill, Pres has to sign it Lew

06-04-2010, 04:49 PM	#2002
painter213 View Profile painter213 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (566) Photos (27) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Coatings consultant and Inspector Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Southeast Posts: 566	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This Yes, but they are stopping the fines for now. That is only for the contractors that has signed up for the class, but not yet taken the class. If you have taken the class and found in violation then watch out. They really need to focus on informing the PUBLIC on the new reg's so as the home owners of the these pre-78 homes know the facts. __________________ Benny Abbott Abbott Consulting and Coating Inspections E-Mail: babbott@abbottcoatinginspections.com Phone: (205-717-0292)

06-04-2010, 05:23 PM	#2003
sk071077 View Profile sk071077 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (150) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Remodeling - Carpentry Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 150	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This Let's say the house was built pre-1978. Then post-1978 an addition was built. Do the rules apply if you are only working in the part of the house that was built after 78?

06-04-2010, 06:16 PM	#2005
lbuttery View Profile lbuttery New Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (21) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity New Guy Trade: 2D/3D CAD designs for builders/remodelers Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: LOCKPORT NY Posts: 21	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This Yes, but they are stopping the fines for now Benny: Not yet, the bill hasn't passed yet I talked to EPA yesterday and they have every intention of enforcing and giving fines until the Pres. signs the bill Lew

06-05-2010, 10:09 AM	#2011
lbuttery View Profile lbuttery New Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (21) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity New Guy Trade: 2D/3D CAD designs for builders/remodelers Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: LOCKPORT NY Posts: 21	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This Dean: Yes, it passed the Senate but must also pass in the House and then be signed by the President Lew

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New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

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06-06-2010, 10:55 AM	#2013
Tom M View Profile Tom M Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,886) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC/ Interior & Exterior Remodeling Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 1,886	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This So he's just a candidate that has acknowledged the RRP rule? He's acurately voicing the issue, lets hope other of potential power follow suite.

06-06-2010, 01:42 PM	#2016
lbuttery View Profile lbuttery New Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (21) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity New Guy Trade: 2D/3D CAD designs for builders/remodelers Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: LOCKPORT NY Posts: 21	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This has passed both house and senate and is now awaiting Presidents signature Dean: do you have a link for this ? I can't find it anywhere I see reports where the Senate passed it but nothing about the House or what the Pres intends to do Lew

06-06-2010, 07:42 PM	#2018
lbuttery View Profile lbuttery New Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (21) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity New Guy Trade: 2D/3D CAD designs for builders/remodelers Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: LOCKPORT NY Posts: 21	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This Dean: thanks I found it in sec 2002 I suspect Sept 30 will come and go and the situation won't have changed concerning getting "most" contractors to getting certified and complying with the law It was mentioned earlier in this thread and other threads that the onus of compliance and providing a lead safe environment should fall to the homeowner If the homeowner wants renovation work done then they should have the house tested and then do abatement if needed, for either the whole house or at least for the proposed workarea The average contractor shouldn't have to worry about lead Lew

06-08-2010, 07:32 PM	#2019
FStephenMasek View Profile FStephenMasek Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (341) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: helping people avoid problems with toxic materials Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 341	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This To help put the issue in perspective, here are our findings from 32 of of most recent inspections (these are all stucco buildings, unless noted, so exxterior wood referes to eaves & fascia, windows, door frames, and such, not the entire exterior): date built #units findings 1956 16 1 wall of one dining room, 1 old door used to make a garden tool storage shed house 1941, house 1968 2 1941 house: exterior and interior wood trim, windows, closet walls, wood fence 1968 house: fascia board (no other part of eaves) 1976 8 no lead 1977 4 no lead 1949 2 exterior and interior window components, door frames, base boards in one unit, roof trim, "handyman" with sander had gone nuts on windows, dust all inside Approx. 1925 1 exterior only inspected. Fascia, rake boards, front door frame, column top trim (eaves are boxed, siding is covered with stucco, old window sills are covered with metal) 1951 4 interior of Unit A inspected to date, no lead 1955 32 exterior wood siding, windows, exterior side of the entry doors, down spouts, garage door frames, round metal railings, a few interior walls and wood items in some units 1964 46 heavy metal stringers on one exterior stairway - owner replaced 1963 44 LBP on the exterior side of 21 of the 44 entry doors (100% checked), the metal barbecue hood, and the wood picnic table set 1947 1 exterior wood, bathroom door frame 1951 1 exterior wood, bathroom walls and window frame 1961 2 exterior door frames 1961 2 exterior wood 1944 2 exterior wood, one interior door & frame 1969 4 none 1964 4 none 1948 12 all exterior wood, down spouts, kitchen sink & stove walls & ceilings, bathroom walls & ceilings (except where replaced), two living rooms walls in one unit, a few scattered interior doors and windows, plaster in carport 1960 3 none 1961 4 none 1962 4 one stair stringer 1960 3 mail box 1958 3 none 1930 1 front door frame, two plaster walls in the main room, wood window frames, door frame from storage room to water heater room, water heater room walls and ceilings, restroom window 1914 - wood siding, not stucco 4 exterior wood siding and trim, neighbor?s building adjoining back yard, old door in back yard, roughly half of the interior wood surfaces, five plaster walls 1962 83 the exterior of three entry doors (100% checked), one bathroom door, and metal railings on the exterior second floor walkway and stairs 1928 16 Exterior woodwork, kitchen and bathroom walls& ceilings, interior woodwork 1928 51 Exterior woodwork, down spouts, some basement wood columns, scattered interior woodwork, some kitchen and bathroom walls & ceilings, some living room walls 1972 99 mail box, bollards 1968 8 two interior door frames, several exterior door frames (some only one of the tree parts), one exterior door, west side metal railings & fence, owner replaced all of the door frames and the door, replaced or sandblasted the railings 1955 12 All exterior metal (sills, gutters, down spouts, railings), all exterior wood (except entry doors), laundry door frame, base moldings in two living rooms, walls and ceiling in one kitchen 1964/1965 8 Exterior of laundry room door ________ Laguna Bay II Condos Last edited by FStephenMasek; 08-18-2011 at 07:58 AM.

06-09-2010, 05:27 PM	#2020
Boxcar View Profile Boxcar Registered User Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (11) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Registered User Trade: General Contractor Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 11	Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This I could be alone on this but I think that is just too much sway...no permit for you you licensed and insured and bonded and ....contractor. What??

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