Windsor One Rot Problem

Jackby

I just used Windsor One pine trim on a recently built home and it is showing numerous areas of severe rot, has any body else experianced this?

Thanks Jack

Jason Whipple

Inside? Outside? Close to the ground? In a humid environment? Cold? Hot? Shady? Door? Window? WTF?

Kind of odd how you're internet savvy enough to fill out the tags section but not your profile.

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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RayGoerdt

along with the comments from Jason,
how long ago is "recently"? and please do something with your profile.

KentWhitten

If it's exterior, then it's no good. Pine is not a good choice for exterior. A year, maybe two I'm guessing and it's got blue rot. Once water gets in there, it's over.

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Jackby

House is in Massachussets built about 1 1/2 years ago, we used all correct building practices primed end cuts etc....but this stuff is really rotting like wev'e never seen on window casings, water tables, corner boards, now I have been speaking with other builders and hearing more problems....any body else?

Thanks,
Jack

neolitic

Did you read any of the replies?

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Jackby

Thanks for your input, I don't know where to go with this thing, I just have never seen wood rot as fast as this stuff. I wonder if there is any recourse to the company for $$ to repair ?

skyhook

I used it for all new facia on my rental next door. Been there 5 years and still looks great. I would suspect the new paint formulas because that water borne crap offers little if no protection against the elements.

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Aframe

I looked a trim replacement job last week on a 6-7 year old addition.
FJ corner boards, casing, rakes , don't know if it's W1 yet. Could of been junk FJ or bad paint job from the beginning.

I hate to think that just because someone lets their paint job go a bit longer than it should, should mean that all the trim is going to blow up.

The windows and trim 10 feet away that were put in 80 years ago will probably outlast whatever we put on to replace the junk.
Lead and oil base paints do have some good qualities to them

Jason Whipple

Even though the site says it can be installed outside, one of the reps agreed with Gary at the Katz roadshow that it shouldn't be used outside.

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dubz

I've seen several places where it rotted out after 2-3 or 5-6 years. My own four year old, factory installed, fjp window casings are rotting.

I think it's due to the fact that today's engineered pine grows so fast. It has huge amounts of the softer, summer growth between the harder winter growth. Look at the growth rings on a piece of trim taken off a 50 year house compared to a cross section of windsor one.

I"ll never put it on one of my clients places. It's amazing how many contractors still do.

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A W Smith

exactly dubz. If they grew this crap any faster you may as well call it spongewood squareboards. I think the tree farm/ lumber industry needs to step back and take a second look at the hybrid crap they are passing off as lumber. Maybe a class action will shake them up.

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Al Smith
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Jackby

Yes, I think your exactly right about about the fast growth wood. Ive used alot of pine products and have seen rot over a few years etc...but I have never seen wood rot at such an accellerated rate as this Windsor crap. The sad thing is the local yards thought they were selling the best thing since sliced bread...therefore guys like me had very high expectations for this lumber and it turns out to be ten times worse than any thing we have seen before....I like the class action suit idea.

Thanks for your input

Craig Flynn

Hello All—

My name is Craig Flynn, I am President/CEO and 2nd generation family owner at Windsor Mill, manufacturers of WindsorONE. There are many different types of primed pine trim boards in the marketplace; therefore, we clearly mark our trim boards with a “WindsorONE date-stamp” on the back of each board. Please ensure that the concerns you have above are relating to WindsorONE trim boards. Regardless of the manufacturer/brand of the trim board, we would like to help.

Jackby: Sorry to hear about the rotting wood products on the home. As you’re likely aware, the longevity or performance of all wood products is directly related to the following:

1. The installation & alignment of the trim;
2. The protection of the trim from weathering; and,
3. The periods of time that the trim is subjected to moisture.

WindsorONE products installed in accordance with accepted installation methods, recognizing the above with all job site cuts being adequately coated will provide years of service. We are more than willing to help determine the source of water ingress, and the reasons for the rot on the home. Can you e-mail me pictures directly as a start? craig@windsormill.com Certainly if there is a manufacturing defect that is the cause of the rot we will provide you with replacement product.

framerman: Based on the performance of many wood products today, I can understand your frustration. However, WindsorONE is in fact manufactured specifically for use on the exterior of the home, of which the substrate has been pine for the last 15+ years. Our proven DuraPrime 3-coat primer system and proprietary exterior glue-system are two key components in the success of WindsorONE’s exterior performance. And following 1-3 above, with all job-site cuts re-coated, will greatly increase the performance of ALL wood trim products, not just WindsorONE.

Skyhook: We agree that many “water-borne” products provide little protection against the elements. However, our primer has been developed by our partner and is an exclusive paint to WindsorONE which is not a paint one can buy retail. I would appreciate the opportunity to send you tests demonstrating its effectiveness, specifically as it relates to oil-based products. You’ll quickly see that our primer system performs superior to oil based products over our pine substrate.

Jason W: I’m sorry for any mis-understanding, but Gary Katz would not have said such a thing (nor our own reps), as evidenced by his own web-site if you peruse through his articles. I would be more than happy to put you in direct contact with Gary so he can clarify any mis-understanding (and I’m sure I could get a set of his DVD’s thrown in for you!... anyone else want to take me up on that offer?).

Dubz & AW Smith: Your comment regarding the “50-year old” trim is difficult to address. Unfortunately, there are too many factors here to address as an old leaky (air) house full of wood dissipates moisture better, and dries much faster before rot can set in. Additionally, we find that many of the older houses have better design to deflect water. Your point is well taken as it relates to the differences in wood specie “today” versus “yesterday.” What was once available to us all that you’re finding on the “50-year-old house” is no longer – that is, we simply don’t have access to those forests any longer. Thereby, we’ve adapted to the use of plantation grown timber (nothing engineered nor hybrid about it – they are Monterey Pine Trees from the coast of California, transplanted to Chile that we now harvest from FSC certified forests).

I look forward to any further questions or comments any of you may have for me. Please don’t hesitate to reach me directly any time at craig@windsormill.com.

Jackby, I also look forward to receiving your photographs and attempting to help in resolving the problems on your project.

Respectfully,
Craig

OGStilts

I'm not familiar with this product but I like the fact that Craig seems to be standing behind his product. I only see two complaints on here about this product (the last time was in 2006) and both times Craig has put his name on the line and offered to personally resolve the issue.

I wish more manufacturers would step up to the plate like this.

Jackby if you could please update this thread if you get this resolved I think it would be much appreciated by the rest of us contractors.

Good Luck

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Jackby

Mr. Flynn,
Thank you for your input and your offer of assistance with the deterioration of this wood trim. I would be surely interested in your kind assistance, however firstly, I would like to know who would determine the cause of the wood failure? And, if in fact it was a defect of Windsor One, would there be compensation made for both materials and labor costs ?

Thank you for your interest,
Jackby

Craig Flynn

Jackby—

There are too many unknowns for us at this point to determine a resolution for the trim board issues on the home. If this is something small, we can likely work towards a quick fix together; if this is a larger problem, I will likely engage a third party building scientist to help us evaluate the points of water ingress, so as to assist in the proper repair of the home.

A handful of photographs depicting the concerns, and if possible one with the WindsorONE date stamp sent to me at craig@windsormill.com is the best start for us to be able to help.

Thank you,
Craig

dubz

Craig,

Do you provide Kolbe and Kolbe with their 5/4 fjp ?

My windows are four years old and the bottom of the (factory installed) casing legs are rotting where they meet the sill. They never sat without paint and the windows were properly installed. They said it's my fault because of the 1/32 gap that is there now at the leading edge (bottom of casing at sill) wasn't caulked. You can push your finger through for the lower 3-5 inches on several.
I'd bet anything they didn't seal the end cuts, but he only thing they will do is give me some more of that stuff which I won't put on after seeing it rot out so easily on so many other places the last several years, primed cuts or not. The risk isn't worth it for me.

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Jason Whipple

Craig,

Please tell me what species of wood you use for your Millwork, and where it comes from. I'll be glad to fill you in on why it shouldn't be used outside from there.

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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rbsremodeling

There really isn't a species of wood that should not be used outside.

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