Who Shows Receipts To HO?

AJAX · 10-01-2009, 02:59 PM

o, there asking for all the material receipts because they talked to a contractor "friend" and he said, "material should only cost X". What the hell if I can get the check sooner why not. Can I fax them to you? I say. He said he'll email me a fax #, would like me scan and send

.

It's been bugging me so I scanned them and added up receipts, Well seems that I forgot one that was in the back of the truck. It's an additional $428.35 that I did not bill them. Well, typically I mark up material %10. As for this job I didn't win in that department and I'm $428.35 in the red as far as materials.

I was just going to let it go and chaulk it up to experience but, since there questioning me and making me scan and email all this stuff, should I bill them the extra cost since there thinking I'm screwing them? Legally I don't have a leg to stand on because they never signed the contract. Then again I guess I don't have to warranty it either. But, they should at least pay the material costs, no? Because ya know if they felt as if I was lining my pocket too much wouldn't pay.

I've never had to show MY receipts before. Just wondering what others would do or have done in this case.

Forry · 10-01-2009, 03:03 PM

Hah! show 'em the receipts and give 'em the invoice for the extra! That's what they get!

Buckknekkid · 10-01-2009, 03:12 PM

Unless youre on T&M, never show anything that provides ammunition for them and their lawyers to scrutinize.

DavidC · 10-01-2009, 03:21 PM

I do not show receipts to the customer. They buy a finished product, not the ingredients. You might as well buy a box of targets and paste them over your tender parts, makes their quest easier.

What kind of friend could the other contractor be if he wasn't doing the job? Maybe the kind that would sabotage the one that got the job he wanted? A monday morning quarterback does not have to be accurate because they only say could've, should've would've and never did.

Maybe next time you won't start the job without the signed contract in place. It could have guided your response. You might try billing them for the misplaced invoice but I doubt they'd pay now that they mistrust you and you don't have a contract.

Not trying to come off as harsh, but man that contract is important.

Good Luck
Dave

**rselectric1** · 10-01-2009, 03:36 PM

On some T&M jobs (depending on the client), I will show them my original receipts and have them reimburse me. Especially if there are a lot of small items like transformers, three way dimmers, etc that add up quickly. I only charge them for my time picking them up, etc. This has to be agreed to at the onset. HO's have a tough time separating how much they paid for labor and material and tend to think that you pocketed all of it.
In your case, it would completely depend on how you formatted your request for final payment.
Since they are auditing you, you can say that upon their request of a closer inspection, a reciept that had not yet posted to their account now makes their total ___.
I would offer to honor the final amount requested because the delay in posting (overlooked receipt) was your fault, but would be happy to reconcile the final payment now that all the reciepts are available.
Let them decide.
PS, if this was not a T&M job, rather a quoted job, then it is absolutely none of their business what you paid for material.

RizzoMaryland · 10-01-2009, 03:40 PM

Keep chalking up these types of experience and you won't be around long.

How do you think they are going to feel about your 10% markup after seeing your receipts?

You're being manipulated. The sooner you realize that the better.

(Nothing towards you, only towards homeowners that haven't been coached enough to realize this is not the way this business is run.)

Willie T · 10-01-2009, 03:40 PM

Sorry, but I WILL come off harsh.

You're a GC, and you don't have a very acute awareness of the necessity of a contract?

woodtradesman · 10-01-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidC

I do not show receipts to the customer. They buy a finished product, not the ingredients.

Well said.

AJAX · 10-01-2009, 04:11 PM

Easy guys, I am completely aware of my short comings(no pun intended), I should have done things differently but, didn't. I know it's very easy to point out what I didn't do but, everyone has been in a sticky situation before and I'm just looking for advise right now on what others have done.

It's a difficult balancing act. Everyone knows you can tell the customer how it is but in order for no ones feelings to get hurt you have to message it a little and choose your words carefully to get the payment now and not delay it. In this case I tried to educate them that this is a bid I don't give out receipts. He was tip toeing around the subject (really nice people not jerks at all about it) so, I thought what the hell, here's your receipts just so you know I'm not lieing to you and in fact I spent more on the project. And since your asking, care to pay for the extra costs too? just looking for some constructive advise.

bwalley · 10-01-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJAX

o, there asking for all the material receipts because they talked to a contractor "friend" and he said, "material should only cost X". What the hell if I can get the check sooner why not. Can I fax them to you? I say. He said he'll email me a fax #, would like me scan and send

.

It's been bugging me so I scanned them and added up receipts, Well seems that I forgot one that was in the back of the truck. It's an additional $428.35 that I did not bill them. Well, typically I mark up material %10. As for this job I didn't win in that department and I'm $428.35 in the red as far as materials.

I was just going to let it go and chaulk it up to experience but, since there questioning me and making me scan and email all this stuff, should I bill them the extra cost since there thinking I'm screwing them? Legally I don't have a leg to stand on because they never signed the contract. Then again I guess I don't have to warranty it either. But, they should at least pay the material costs, no? Because ya know if they felt as if I was lining my pocket too much wouldn't pay.

I've never had to show MY receipts before. Just wondering what others would do or have done in this case.

Bill them for all of the material and your mark up, BTW 10% is not near enough of a mark up.

Let them know you normally don't give them copies of reciepts but thank them for asking because that is how you found out about the billing error, they may try to get you to forget about it, but i guarantee you if they find a discrepancy of you overcharging them, they would want a credit.

**rselectric1** · 10-01-2009, 04:17 PM

bwalley said it better than I did, and in less sentences.

Inner10 · 10-01-2009, 04:42 PM

Oh ALWAYS

Just like when I buy a pizza I ask for the receipts for the cheese, pepperoni and sauce, just so I know they arn't screwing me!

In your situation I'd throw it in add it up and tell them the honest truth!

"Sorry Sir I completely forgot about these materials until I went to add everything up for you so here's the new amount"

Thank you and fcuk you!

If I screwup I tell people, and most seem to appreciate the honesty. If someone ever questioned my cost I'd tell them to piss up a rope. Besides 10% on material is more then reasonable.

AJAX · 10-01-2009, 04:54 PM

Well, I did exactly that. I added it all up and sent them a polite note with a new invoice.

Yeah, makeup is a funny thing around here. 10% material and 10% contractor fee is pretty common around here. Although I just bid a deck job for a guy on specific materials he wanted and he claims my bid came in $6K higher than 3 others. I said that's funny cuz if they can do the job for the materials you want it doesn't even cover my material COSTS. Go figure.

Bud Cline · 10-01-2009, 05:02 PM

You seem to be desperate to get paid for this job. If that's the case then how the hell can you just blow off over four hundred dollars that is legitimately owed to you? That's even dumber than the things you've done so far.

Don't give them any breaks. Take them a revised invoice in person with the new amount and ask for your money on the spot. Take COPIES of all of your receipts with you and neatly listed and totaled on another piece of paper. Don't take the real receipts with you that would be dumb also to let them get away from you. Screw them about the ten percent, you're entitled to that and more. That little ten percent markup is what pays you to go after all that crap and deliver it to their job to begin with. Stop emailing and faxing and being a pussy. GO KNOCK ON THEIR DOOR.

Next time don't ever agree to furnish anyone with receipts after the fact. Those receipts are proprietary and belong to only you, they have no rights to them.

AJAX · 10-01-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline

You seem to be desperate to get paid for this job. If that's the case then how the hell can you just blow off over four hundred dollars that is legitimately owed to you? That's even dumber than the things you've done so far.

Don't give them any breaks. Take them a revised invoice in person with the new amount and ask for your money on the spot. Take COPIES of all of your receipts with you and neatly listed and totaled on another piece of paper. Don't take the real receipts with you that would be dumb also to let them get away from you. Screw them about the ten percent, you're entitled to that and more. That little ten percent markup is what pays you to go after all that crap and deliver it to their job to begin with. Stop emailing and faxing and being a pussy. GO KNOCK ON THEIR DOOR.

Next time don't ever agree to furnish anyone with receipts after the fact. Those receipts are proprietary and belong to only you, they have no rights to them.

WOW! Is that how you talk to your customers? Ya think I should have walked up to there place of work today and said, PAY UP F***ER!!!!

Get alot of repeat business from that approach, Bud?

FYI, just got off the phone with him and he's giving me everything I asked for and yes I added it all in. Guess my pussy approach worked. Sooo....

Magnettica · 10-01-2009, 05:48 PM

I wouldn't call what you did the "pussy" approach, but if you're firm, honest, and confident, you'll usually get what you want.

There's many ways to get the results you want. The important thing is to find YOUR WAY.

AJAX · 10-01-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnettica

I wouldn't call what you did the "pussy" approach, but if you're firm, honest, and confident, you'll usually get what you want.

There's many ways to get the results you want. The important thing is to find YOUR WAY.

Thanks, Magnettica, that's exactly what I was thinking. Because at the end of the day if ya don't make dollars then it don't make cents!

Lesson learned.

**rselectric1** · 10-01-2009, 06:05 PM

FYI, just got off the phone with him and he's giving me everything I asked for and yes I added it all in. Guess my pussy approach worked. Sooo....[/quote]

I'm glad you got that issue resolved. You'll sleep better tonight!

DavidC · 10-01-2009, 06:13 PM

Congratulations. I really didn't think it looked good for you from your first post.

But I still hope you use a contract going forward.

Good Luck
Dave

neolitic · 10-01-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJAX

WOW! Is that how you talk to your customers? Ya think I should have walked up to there place of work today and said, PAY UP F***ER!!!!

Get alot of repeat business from that approach, Bud?

FYI, just got off the phone with him and he's giving me everything I asked for and yes I added it all in. Guess my pussy approach worked. Sooo....

I'm confused.
You come here asking advice,
because you did something stupid.
Then an experienced guy
gives you his advice.
Then you spit on him.
That about sum it up?

10-01-2009, 02:59 PM	#1
AJAX View Profile AJAX Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (177) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC, Remodeling Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central, MN Posts: 177	Who Shows Receipts To HO? o, there asking for all the material receipts because they talked to a contractor "friend" and he said, "material should only cost X". What the hell if I can get the check sooner why not. Can I fax them to you? I say. He said he'll email me a fax #, would like me scan and send . It's been bugging me so I scanned them and added up receipts, Well seems that I forgot one that was in the back of the truck. It's an additional $428.35 that I did not bill them. Well, typically I mark up material %10. As for this job I didn't win in that department and I'm $428.35 in the red as far as materials. I was just going to let it go and chaulk it up to experience but, since there questioning me and making me scan and email all this stuff, should I bill them the extra cost since there thinking I'm screwing them? Legally I don't have a leg to stand on because they never signed the contract. Then again I guess I don't have to warranty it either. But, they should at least pay the material costs, no? Because ya know if they felt as if I was lining my pocket too much wouldn't pay. I've never had to show MY receipts before. Just wondering what others would do or have done in this case.

10-01-2009, 03:03 PM	#2
Forry View Profile Forry Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (825) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: General Contractor, Remodeler Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Eugene, OR. Posts: 825	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? Hah! show 'em the receipts and give 'em the invoice for the extra! That's what they get! __________________ now i am scared for my future i've got all ten smashed a lot of them stupidly before -john5mt

10-01-2009, 03:12 PM	#3
Buckknekkid View Profile Buckknekkid General Contractors Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (67) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity General Contractors Trade: Project Managers Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: ONTARIO Posts: 67	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? Unless youre on T&M, never show anything that provides ammunition for them and their lawyers to scrutinize. __________________ Project Managers, Design Builders

10-01-2009, 03:21 PM	#4
DavidC View Profile DavidC DavidC Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,917) Photos (95) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity DavidC Trade: Remodeler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: NNY Posts: 1,917	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? I do not show receipts to the customer. They buy a finished product, not the ingredients. You might as well buy a box of targets and paste them over your tender parts, makes their quest easier. What kind of friend could the other contractor be if he wasn't doing the job? Maybe the kind that would sabotage the one that got the job he wanted? A monday morning quarterback does not have to be accurate because they only say could've, should've would've and never did. Maybe next time you won't start the job without the signed contract in place. It could have guided your response. You might try billing them for the misplaced invoice but I doubt they'd pay now that they mistrust you and you don't have a contract. Not trying to come off as harsh, but man that contract is important. Good Luck Dave __________________ www.CookContractingLLC.com

10-01-2009, 03:36 PM	#5
rselectric1 View Profile rselectric1 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,016) Photos (0) Reviews (31) Projects (0) Toolbox (30) View All Activity Pro Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 7,016	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? On some T&M jobs (depending on the client), I will show them my original receipts and have them reimburse me. Especially if there are a lot of small items like transformers, three way dimmers, etc that add up quickly. I only charge them for my time picking them up, etc. This has to be agreed to at the onset. HO's have a tough time separating how much they paid for labor and material and tend to think that you pocketed all of it. In your case, it would completely depend on how you formatted your request for final payment. Since they are auditing you, you can say that upon their request of a closer inspection, a reciept that had not yet posted to their account now makes their total ___. I would offer to honor the final amount requested because the delay in posting (overlooked receipt) was your fault, but would be happy to reconcile the final payment now that all the reciepts are available. Let them decide. PS, if this was not a T&M job, rather a quoted job, then it is absolutely none of their business what you paid for material. __________________ 220...221...whatever it takes! Last edited by rselectric1; 10-01-2009 at 03:40 PM.

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10-01-2009, 03:40 PM	#6
RizzoMaryland View Profile RizzoMaryland Carpenter Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (514) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Carpenter Trade: General Contractor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 514	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? Keep chalking up these types of experience and you won't be around long. How do you think they are going to feel about your 10% markup after seeing your receipts? You're being manipulated. The sooner you realize that the better. (Nothing towards you, only towards homeowners that haven't been coached enough to realize this is not the way this business is run.) __________________ "An idea is salvation by imagination" Frank LLoyd Wright

10-01-2009, 03:40 PM	#7
Willie T View Profile Willie T General Contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,653) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity General Contractor Trade: General Contractor Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond their range. Posts: 2,653	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? Sorry, but I WILL come off harsh. You're a GC, and you don't have a very acute awareness of the necessity of a contract? __________________ "True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is." François Duc de La Rochefoucauld Bill Everett - St. Petersburg, FL

10-01-2009, 04:11 PM	#9
AJAX View Profile AJAX Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (177) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC, Remodeling Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central, MN Posts: 177	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? Easy guys, I am completely aware of my short comings(no pun intended), I should have done things differently but, didn't. I know it's very easy to point out what I didn't do but, everyone has been in a sticky situation before and I'm just looking for advise right now on what others have done. It's a difficult balancing act. Everyone knows you can tell the customer how it is but in order for no ones feelings to get hurt you have to message it a little and choose your words carefully to get the payment now and not delay it. In this case I tried to educate them that this is a bid I don't give out receipts. He was tip toeing around the subject (really nice people not jerks at all about it) so, I thought what the hell, here's your receipts just so you know I'm not lieing to you and in fact I spent more on the project. And since your asking, care to pay for the extra costs too? just looking for some constructive advise.

10-01-2009, 04:17 PM	#11
rselectric1 View Profile rselectric1 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,016) Photos (0) Reviews (31) Projects (0) Toolbox (30) View All Activity Pro Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 7,016	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? bwalley said it better than I did, and in less sentences. __________________ 220...221...whatever it takes!

10-01-2009, 04:42 PM	#12
Inner10 View Profile Inner10 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (4,098) Photos (28) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Control Systems Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 4,098	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? Oh ALWAYS Just like when I buy a pizza I ask for the receipts for the cheese, pepperoni and sauce, just so I know they arn't screwing me! In your situation I'd throw it in add it up and tell them the honest truth! "Sorry Sir I completely forgot about these materials until I went to add everything up for you so here's the new amount" Thank you and fcuk you! If I screwup I tell people, and most seem to appreciate the honesty. If someone ever questioned my cost I'd tell them to piss up a rope. Besides 10% on material is more then reasonable.

10-01-2009, 04:54 PM	#13
AJAX View Profile AJAX Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (177) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC, Remodeling Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central, MN Posts: 177	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? Well, I did exactly that. I added it all up and sent them a polite note with a new invoice. Yeah, makeup is a funny thing around here. 10% material and 10% contractor fee is pretty common around here. Although I just bid a deck job for a guy on specific materials he wanted and he claims my bid came in $6K higher than 3 others. I said that's funny cuz if they can do the job for the materials you want it doesn't even cover my material COSTS. Go figure.

10-01-2009, 05:02 PM	#14
Bud Cline View Profile Bud Cline Tile Contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,216) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Tile Contractor Trade: Building Trades-Specializing in Ceramic Tile Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hastings Nebraska Posts: 1,216	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? You seem to be desperate to get paid for this job. If that's the case then how the hell can you just blow off over four hundred dollars that is legitimately owed to you? That's even dumber than the things you've done so far. Don't give them any breaks. Take them a revised invoice in person with the new amount and ask for your money on the spot. Take COPIES of all of your receipts with you and neatly listed and totaled on another piece of paper. Don't take the real receipts with you that would be dumb also to let them get away from you. Screw them about the ten percent, you're entitled to that and more. That little ten percent markup is what pays you to go after all that crap and deliver it to their job to begin with. Stop emailing and faxing and being a pussy. GO KNOCK ON THEIR DOOR. Next time don't ever agree to furnish anyone with receipts after the fact. Those receipts are proprietary and belong to only you, they have no rights to them. Last edited by Bud Cline; 10-01-2009 at 05:05 PM.

10-01-2009, 05:48 PM	#16
Magnettica View Profile Magnettica Service & Repairs Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,998) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Service & Repairs Trade: Electrician Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rahway, New Jersey Posts: 3,998	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? I wouldn't call what you did the "pussy" approach, but if you're firm, honest, and confident, you'll usually get what you want. There's many ways to get the results you want. The important thing is to find YOUR WAY. __________________ Electrician service in Rahway, Cranford, Clark, Westfield, Mountainside, Scotch Plains, Fanwood, Roselle, Roselle Park, and New Jersey \| Same day electrical service and repairs \| Licensed and Insured Electrician in Rahway

10-01-2009, 06:05 PM	#18
rselectric1 View Profile rselectric1 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,016) Photos (0) Reviews (31) Projects (0) Toolbox (30) View All Activity Pro Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 7,016	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? FYI, just got off the phone with him and he's giving me everything I asked for and yes I added it all in. Guess my pussy approach worked. Sooo....[/quote] I'm glad you got that issue resolved. You'll sleep better tonight! __________________ 220...221...whatever it takes!

10-01-2009, 06:13 PM	#19
DavidC View Profile DavidC DavidC Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,917) Photos (95) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity DavidC Trade: Remodeler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: NNY Posts: 1,917	Re: Who Shows Receipts To HO? Congratulations. I really didn't think it looked good for you from your first post. But I still hope you use a contract going forward. Good Luck Dave __________________ www.CookContractingLLC.com

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