When A Homeowner Takes Advantage....

davinci

how many times has this happened? i have a customer who put on a small addition and he wanted me to put in 9 anderson windows and a patio door as well as side the new addition. in the contract i said i will remove the debris(of course).
anyway,as i was finishing up he asks if i can remove some of his debris and asks me to side some of his house that was damages when he did the addition;not much but about a squre using his old siding. anyway,he said he will pay me the final payment when i do these extra's that have nothing to do with the contract. he then had the nerve to complain that some of his debris has'nt be removed yet. all of his debris,not ours.
i guess my problem is this,whenever the homeowner still owes me money i almost say whatever it is in order to get that final check. i worry if i say no,they will play games. i actually had that happen with an indiam guy and i lost my cool and actually punched him in the face and almost broke his nose. the cops came but i said he attacked me first. sounds childish and it is but you can imagaine how frustraing this **** gets. sorry for the ramble and i know you guys are going to call me unprofessional and thats probably the least of it. it is what it is.

rbsremodeling

+ YouTube Video

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SLSTech

You keep this up Rory & anytime someone searches for your company they are going to see that video. Maybe good, maybe bad

Sorry, what was the question?

My answer would depend - they threaten holding the payment or are PITA's - sure heres a change order for you to sign

Real good customers, it would be performed gratis or maybe a small dump fee previously agreed upon

Oh yeah - no beating up on the customers, at least until you have all your tools safely stored at your place

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Bodger

I've had this happen a lot. Some people just seem to choke on paying what they agreed to pay once the work is finished. It's like thay don't think they need you anymore so why pay.

I've had people ask me to put childproof cabinet latches all through the house, repair cracked patio slabs, etc. One guy even asked me to haul away some old appliances when I took the debris load, AND take some of his neightobr's trash as well.

If the H/O has been good to me, I will cautiously agree to a few small extras these days. Other than that, my time, my gas, my laborers, all have a going rate.

As the character Paulie said in Goodfellas: "F&*k you! PAY ME!

thom

put it in writing, put everything in writing.

Start with a detailed and clear contract. Every change, even if it's a no-charge, gets a change order.

At the end of the job, give a neatly typed invoice. If you did extra things that you had change orders on, list them with their amounts, even if there was no charge. ANYTHING you can think of that you did beyond the scope, list it with an asterisk. Total everything up and give the full amount. Add a line that says "discount for prompt (today) payment" and deduct everything that you weren't going to charge for anyway.

A problem with giving things away is it becomes a contest for the owner, a contest you will lose. Everytime he gets something free, he wins and he feels good while you feel screwed. He will keep playing that game as long as he gets that good "winning" feeling.

Gus Dering

I find that if I do one thing extra without mentioning that there is cost involved , the door opens and the requests start flooding in.
I think that there is a way of being that is kind, cordial, and professional that creates respect. Almost everyone responds well to that.
Then there are the others that need a little more directness.

I would be careful about posting an admission to guilt in an aggravated assault case over the internet if I was you.
You could find yourself in the vertical bar hotel with a new lover.

ModernStyle

I love it when the HO says " since you have already got the paint out, would you mind .... ", sure no problem. Wait for the HO to take out his checkbook and say " hey since you already got your checkbook out ... ". For a good customer I will do extras, if someone tries to force me to do something then we have big problems. I am pretty much an a55hole by nature so I dont mind a little confrontation. I refuse to be bullied by anyone and am always quick to pull out my copy of the contract to show a HO exactly what the agreed upon work was and the agreed upon price. I have never really had someone refuse to pay me no matter what, but I guess if it came up I would handle it with class, I would try to force his face through whatever I had painted.

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Bodger

On one of my smaller jobs, the painting contractor was almost finished, and the homeowner's wife brought out a bunch of wooden lawn furniture and said "Before you go, these need to be painted too...."

The painter didn't force her face into the chairs, but he looked like he wanted to.
He got paid, and the chairs didn't get painted.

Just a Roofer

We use our own dump trailers for roof tearoffs & sometimes the customer will ask if they can put a FEW things in. Come back later to find it overflowing with crap or a bunch of brick/concrete etc.

Bill Z

That last paragraph is gold! It describes exactly what happens emotionally.
You hit the nail on the head.

Wolfgang

Written and signed Contracts. Changes = Change Orders written and signed. Had a customer who became quite a PITA for asking for freebies. Everytime I would take out a change order and write it as she was talking, put the price in and circle it and tell her to sign it. She'd see the the circled price and ask what that was and I told her the additional charge for what she wanted done. Some of the things she changed her mind on pretty quickly!

I even have my guys keep blank change orders with them. They also understand that any freebies are done on their time at the end of the day.

I read alot of threads on this forum about not being paid a/o misunderstandings because there was no contract in force. It's a CYA world out there guys and the sooner you realize it and make the adjustment the less hassle you'll have.

WisePainter

That is the nature of the business and it isn't going to change anytime soon, he who holds the gold has the power.

And you ain't the one holding the gold. I am pretty sure we all come across the customer than thinks they are just so sly, when in fact they are only holding our money hostage.
When I get a customer like that I mention the final check in every way possible, all day.

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Schmidt & Co

My contracts are very clear regarding changes to the scope of work. Any additions to the scope will not start until a change order is written up & signed. My experience has been, if you start off by giving them something small, its a go ahead for them to keep adding on. The old addage, "give them an inch".....

As a side note, My father in-law was a painter. He flew for Germany in WW2 and came over after the war. In the 60s he was working for a jewish couple and after the job was over they would not pay. They said he "owed them". He told me he calmly packed up all his tools. His last trip out the door he had a tint bottle in each hand & squirted each one all over everything on his way out!

WisePainter

Not good business.

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

bwalley

I am sure you were aware of his additional material that needed to be hauled away when you started the job, in the future take note of conditions such as this, and build it in to the cost of the job.

On this job, just explain to the customer that your bid did not include hauling away HIS debris, but since you are such a nice guy and you want to make your client happy you will do this for him.

It probably isn't that big of a deal to haul it away, if it is, you could explain to him that your bid did not include hauling his debris away, and it will cost you additional money and since you gave him a tight bid, it would be unfair not to be compensated for hauling it away, and ask him how much he is willing to pay you.

Problem is the little bit of money yo may get, may make him think you are taking advantage of him and he may not refer you in the future, and worse he may badmouth you.

IMO it is best to just take care of these things and in the future make sure you charge for it, because you will be asked to haul away their stuff.

DavidC

In case you missed it.

WisePainter also said, "That is the nature of the business and it isn't going to change anytime soon, he who holds the gold has the power."

Until you are paid in full the gold you hold is your signed contract. I suspect you didn't use one, but if I'm wrong make it a habit to walk to your truck and review it with the client looking for the clause that said you would and the clause about changes. I was once told that a contract will keep an honest man honest.

Good Luck
Dave

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Schmidt & Co

I agree. But its better than a punch in the face!

WisePainter

Both aren't gonna get you good referrals, one will keep you out of jail though.



I have had my worst customers (in every way) give me some pretty lucrative leads because I sat on my tongue and blast welded my lips shut.
Not easy for someone like me to do.

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Schmidt & Co

I"m the same, about as laid back of a guy you can meet. My father in-law and I never worked together & I would NEVER think of doing something like that. I just happened to marry a painters daughter.

Mike Finley

I think you expose the problem with most of us in that we don't think we have control and when it comes down to that final payment you get nervous and you want to do whatever it takes to keep them happy so you get it.

I think you are totally missing the fact that when that situation comes up the customer is actually handing you FULL control. They have just asked you to do something they want done, they have just put you back in full control of the situation.

The only change you need to do is a mental one. At the point when a customer ask you to do this or that, that is exactly the time to redefine the relationship and square it away.

"Sure, I would have no problem doing that. Here is what we need to do, since that is outside the scope of work we agree upon, we are going to finish up this job by tomorrow. Let's square away the final payment on this job tomorrow and if you still want me to do that other work we will do it. It's going to be an additional $500.00. I will have a work order for you for that work to sign off on before we start it for you."

This is the way to handle these - can you's...

You are reafirming your position and business relationship on the current job, putting the customer on notice that what he wants added has nothign to do with the current job. You're setting him up to pay you properly for this job if he wants to get you to do more for him.

Doing it the other way is not good business, it's changing the relationship and giving up your position of power. Try it the other way and see what happens.

When put in your shoes I have done this and you can tell when you've got one of those bad customers who was going to try some crap on you, once they hear you tell it to them like I said, that type will say, oh forget it or let me think about it. When they say that I smile because I know what they had in mind and in store for me.