What's Your Take On This Situation?

jockmo

Hello all! I just ran into this site earlier this week and have enjoyed all the posts. I would really appreciate some opinions on my current working conditions since I’m really getting stressed out over this lately. I know this is very long and I’m asking a lot for a first time poster, but if you have a few minutes your thoughts and opinions would mean a lot.

I’m now 33 years old and started at my current job in northeast PA 5 years ago making $20/ hour and I get a 1099. I’m somewhere between an employee and a sub. At that time I was probably overpaid as I had some experience but not too much. We do residential construction including framing houses, asphalt shingle roofing, remodeling, additions, siding, decks and home repairs. The first 3 ½ years brought some good times and bad times, including some times of no work; a day or two here and even a week or two there. I’m the type of person who doesn’t like change much and enjoy knowing the certainty of things, like my job. So I gave this new business a chance and wanted to stick through the good times and the bad, because I believe in something and someone.

About a year and a half ago I was switched from hourly pay to getting paid by the job. My 1099 for 2005 was $25,020. That works out to a little over $12/hour. I was making more money 12 years ago as a produce manager and I was getting health, 401k, vacation, etc. If I were getting paid hourly (at my original rate) I should’ve made a little over $40,000. I’m an employee in the sense that my boss is working with me 99.9% of the time and I have very little control over how we do things. I see how we do things and try and improve methods, give suggestions, etc. but usually to no avail. When paid hourly I did the same but the thought was “whatever, let him do it his way if he wants, it’s his money”. Now it’s obviously a different story. If I were actually a sub I could only blame myself for the financial problems that now exist, since I’m not I feel a lot of anger and blame towards my boss.

I’m a dependable, trustful, knowledgeable, hard worker and lately haven’t felt like I’m getting anything I deserve, through little if no fault of my own. What are your opinions concerning the way my wages are set up, the money I’m making for the type of work I do and the strange employee/sub position I’m in?

Tom R

Carpenters have a high turn-over rate, - - sounds like it's your turn, - - there's always guys lookin' for someone with experience, - - shouldn't be hard at all to find someone to top what you're makin' now. Expect your boss to gain a lesson in humility and ask you back for more, - - probably not your best move, though.

P.S. Him treating you as a sub is probably illegal.

__________________
http://www.tr-built.com

jmic

I just can't figure out why you stayed there for so long after they made you a sub, You should have seen the difference in your pay immediatly and not have waited till you got a 1099 to see you were getting the shaft all year!

__________________
___"Remember You Never Get A Second Chance To Make A First Impression"______________________
Joe

Peladu

I like to do numbers, and here’s how I see some numbers you have posted here. You said that you made $12/hr which is an average and I understand that. But lets just use the $12/hr that you are 1099ed. For your boss to put you on payroll, and pay everything that has to be paid with the payroll, he would have to pay you around $8 an hour. The extra $4 goes to insurance, SS and others. You follow me. Basically he is telling you that you are worth $8 an hour. With that said, who would do what you (we) do for $8…not to many people if any.
Loyalty can be good, and can be bad. He’s seems to be taking your loyalty as a weakness. Find another guy to work for, you said you have had a lot of time off, the next time you do go hunting for a job.
Finally, since I don’t know your employer, could it be that you are getting paid what you are worth? Maybe? Just putting the devil advocate out there.
Good luck, looks like its your time to find a new job.

mdshunk

That 1099 jazz is scary. You get hammered for double social security, and you have to have your own insurance, and you're not covered on his workman's comp. Are you aware of all this? You can't afford this on 25K a year, I assure you. You need to have a sit down with your employer (I use that term loosely) or find somone to work for who will pay you legitimately. The present arrangement is either on the fringes of legality, or flatly illegal.

Zendik

Sounds like you're getting taken advantage of to me. As mentioned there is a high turn over rate in construction but this is mostly due to management.
There is a contractor here that gets over $3.00 a square foot for hanging and finishing sheetrock but he pays .20 to hang it and .30 to finish it. He hires everyone on as piece workers but then gives them a production rate that is inhumane to say the least.
Some people are just greedy and don't realize that it's their workers that make them their cash in the first place.
I wouldn't work for cash being 1099'd in the first place. No insurance, no unemployment, workers comp, you're being ripped off big time.

slickshift

You're getting hosed
He wants a dependable, experienced, carpenter for butt-boy wages and he figured out how to do it

You're not legally a sub in this neck of the woods
And you're not getting paid as much as a sub would
But your not on HIS books as an employee
You are in no-man's land when it comes to any...situations regarding insurance companies, liabilty...etc...
And I gotta tell ya, he is breaking the law and avoiding some expenses he needs to be paying

DecksEtc

Another idea since your being treated like a sub... register yourself a business and start out part-time booking your own work for the times/hours he's not giving you. After trying it our for a year you would likely be able to give it a go full time the following year. That is, if you're inclined to be your own boss.

jockmo

Everyone seems to think what I've been thinking all along. Sometimes it's just nice to hear it from others.

I did see the difference in pay quickly. I guess I'm still there because I was looking for false promises of "if we finish ahead of schedule, you get more money" to possibly pan out. It happened a few times, but all the jobs that took longer took that profit away very quickly.


Well put in that perscective, makes things look even worse. If that was possible.


If that was the case I wouldn't even be complaining. And the third guy that works with us is on the same plan.

I certainly have thought about this. One of the biggest problems with this is the way things are set up with one crew I haven't had the need to own many tools besides the basics since we use his stuff every day. I would need an absolute minimum of $2000 to get some tools I would need. Very difficult for the financial position I'm currently in.

So I guess I seriously need to look at jumping ship. I know nothing's going to change, that's why I hung around so long, seeing what could and would change.

Thanks for everyone's input!

Glasshousebltr

Before ya jump ship, here's a little info to help ya have some fun with the fella.

In order for him to legally consider you a sub he has to follow a few rules.
First, he can't tell you when or when not to be at the job and he can't maintain or control your hours.
Second, you have to do work in the same trade for others.
Third,........well I forget three, but the first is enough to let you have fun and the second will give you the leverage to do it.

Bob

__________________
Bob

RYANINMICHIGAN

Bob is right on. He can not tell you the hours you have to work, in doing that he controls you profit margine. And you can not work soley for him. At least in Michigan that is the case.

DecksEtc

You could start subbing some smaller jobs to other contractors/private customers when you aren't working for him - nights, weekends, off days, whatever it takes. That could help you build up your tool supply. Then let it slip by saying something like "I can't be there until Wednesday because I have another customer/job that I have to work on". He'll get the hint soon enough. At the very least, you'll be able to buy new tools!

jmic

I think right now the point isn't that you have to go full fledge on your own, but you have to go and find someone willing to pay you what you're worth and not take advantage of you, and as you build up some money you can start to buy your own tools that you will need and also pick up some smaller jobs that will start building you a customer base with them giving you referals. Heck I'd even go to your boss now and say listen Mack, I want 24.00/hr ( or whatever you want) or else consider this my 2 week notice. You know what he just might give it to you! My opinion!

__________________
___"Remember You Never Get A Second Chance To Make A First Impression"______________________
Joe

TimNJ

Oh Man, you are screwed. 15% of $25,000 is $3750. That is how much you owe the gov't at tax time just for Social Security. Since you are only labor for him you have no deductions. Tools, etc are deducted after your "gross sales" of $25,000 (which is what your SS tax is based on.)

copusbuilder

He should be able to deduct mileage on his vehicle, tools, some meals, materials, home office, storage and any other business or close to business purchases etc.etc.


That is of course if they apply. I believe if you know going in and keep your books straight you can come out ahead being a sub. Allows you to play and hide a little better.

Of course it sounds like this guy is getting the shaft.

__________________
www.copusconstruction.com
www.etexasrentals.com
www.thelakevoice.com
AkA Richard Cranium

TimNJ

The tools etc wont lower your SS tax. That tax gets you on your adjusted gross...gross income minus what your direct material purchases are. Tools etc lower your "income tax" not SS tax.

jockmo

Yep!

As far as the deductions go, I do take off for milage, tools and other business related expenses (I also have a snow plowing business under a company name that I do seperate deductions for). I visit my accountant at tax time with questions of what I can and can't deduct since I'm not very knowledgeable about that stuff.

Great advice everyone! Some I've thought of and others I haven't. I think I will start having some fun with my hours and stuff.

I've thought about doing this and don't think anything will happen, but what the heck do I have to lose?