What Would You Do

fourcornerhome · 06-17-2008, 09:59 AM

I'm kind of upset with this one. Old widow,about 75,wants a deck. This was a referral and she wants a quality job.I went to her house 4 different times with reworked proposals. Deck is too big,deck is too small,how much for redwood,cedar,composite,pt. and on and on .Lady was nice on every visit and the job seemed like a go,but she needed to think about it.Don't hear from her for a while so I call and she says she is going with someone else.(a friend of her son).He can do it for so much cheaper and she can't believe the difference in prices.I feel a little offended because she said this in such a way as to imply I was ripping her off.I should just let it go, but I have like 10 hours into this one. So I take a detour and do a drive by and notice something missing...A PERMIT! I got a feeling this friend of her son also lacks insurance,licencing in the city and bonding.(this is what is required in Ohio and in this city to build a deck).Now I understand a guy has gotta eat but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.Part of me says live and let live but the bitter part says rat him out.What do you guys think?

MALCO.New.York · 06-17-2008, 10:07 AM

Snitches end up in ditches.

Send her an invoice for the time spent and go on with life.

kevjob · 06-17-2008, 10:12 AM

maybe a call to the building dept to let them know there may be an un safe deck. The issue is safety for the older woman what if he does an inferior job and it collapses?

6stringmason · 06-17-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York

Snitches end up in ditches.

So do people who take bread off my families table.

I would report it.

Cdat · 06-17-2008, 11:37 AM

Report him and let her know why you did it. She hired the guy knowing full well he was not capable of doing the job. She just wanted it done cheaply. I'd also introduce the guy to my friend, Mr. Pipe Wrench. If not him, at least his vehicle.

**Cole** · 06-17-2008, 11:44 AM

I agree with the above responses, one thing I have to add.

**********Charge For Estimates***********

If you even charged just $25, I bet this lady would have not paid it. Let other guys have to deal with these price shoppers. Chalk it up and move on.

J F · 06-17-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole

I agree with the above responses, one thing I have to add.

**********Charge For Estimates***********

If you even charged just $25, I bet this lady would have not paid it. Let other guys have to deal with these price shoppers. Chalk it up and move on.

Yup

MALCO.New.York · 06-17-2008, 12:57 PM

Makes me think of an episode of The Brady Bunch where Little Cindy, the baby of the Bunch, was reprimanded by her parents for being a Tattle Tale.

"Oooooh. I'm telling".

fourcornerhome · 06-17-2008, 04:11 PM

charging for estimates is tough around here..the first thing about 80% of my calls ask is "are your estimates free?' if I say no,they are $25.00 , the caller will say no thanks.This lady was referred and asked for free estimate! I billed a guy once after the fact , when I found out it was just for an insurance claim and he didn't intend to even do the repair,and this guy had went off on me.

Splinter · 06-17-2008, 04:59 PM

Cdat is making a big assumption here.. How do we know she isnt getting a quality product with this other carpenter? We dont...

I'm not a fan of snitching on someone unless they're really a HUGE dickhead. This widow is NOT taking bread from your family's mouth just because she went with someone else... It's her right to choose whomever she wants... However, since there is a lot of time spent on this project already, I absolutely would send her a bill, and give her some incentive to pay it by stating you know about the lack of permits somewhere on the bill...

6stringmason · 06-17-2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York

Makes me think of an episode of The Brady Bunch where Little Cindy, the baby of the Bunch, was reprimanded by her parents for being a Tattle Tale.

"Oooooh. I'm telling".

Relating a 70's sitcom to a real life situation hold no water here. This is business. If you intend to make it personal maybe you're in the wrong field.

I have no problems reporting people who dont follow rules and regulations. They're put in place for a reason.

The same can be said of Union workers doing side jobs for cash on projects I bid on. That sh*t dont fly with me.

MALCO.New.York · 06-17-2008, 05:44 PM

Nothing personal. NOW carry this attitude to ALL parts of YOUR life.

None of us can.

Ever drove drunk or stoned?

Cheated a little itty bit on your taxes?

Ad Infinitum!

But this is just MY perspective. That is what life is. Our individual and collective perspectives.

Tom R · 06-17-2008, 05:44 PM

Whether you report them or not is your business, - - but the fact of the matter is, SHE USED YOU.

She squeezed you for your know-how and then gave it to the know-now.

Not very nice of her, - - but you share the blame, too.

Don't give away information without a signature.

MALCO.New.York · 06-17-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom R

Whether you report them or not is your business, - - but the fact of the matter is, SHE USED YOU.

She squeezed you for your know-how and then gave it to the know-now.

Not very nice of her, - - but you share the blame, too.

Don't give away information without a signature.

Exactly my point.

You got burned and now you want "payback".

WRONG reason for "reporting" her.

If you report her then you MUST report ALL violations you see on a daily basis. If you do not then you become a self-serving hypocrite.

Think about it.?!

OCRS · 06-17-2008, 05:51 PM

With HOs like that it's good to have a design/build company. She can take as much of your time as she wants. Until the contract to build is signed, it's still in the design phase at your hourly rate.

Susan Betz · 06-17-2008, 05:54 PM

If she's reported, can she get a permit after the fact?

I ask because it can be done here, if the structure is built properly. If the guy built the deck correctly, she'll have to pay an engineer to OK the structure, then she has all the permit fees to pay. If he didn't build it correctly, she's screwed.

We have an insane building department here, they don't wait for reports, they do visuals and see if the structure is permitted. I know a woman whose deck is ON HER SURVEY but was never permitted, and the building department sent her notice. The deck was built with 4x4's instead of 6x6's, and after spending $7K on lumber alone, she now gets to spend the money paying a LICENSED demo guy to tear it down. I'm actually sorry for her, she's in her 70's and is just salt of the earth type people. But hey - if the thing had been built right, she could have paid an engineer and the permit fee and been done with it.

DavidC · 06-17-2008, 08:39 PM

FWIW, I wouldn't report her. It's true you got burned, and your at least partly to blame, and that it really really sucks and probably won't be the last time.

But your energy is best spent making sure the customers you do get have the best experience you can deliver. It's a much wiser expenditure.

Good Luck
Dave

deckman22 · 06-17-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan Betz

If she's reported, can she get a permit after the fact?

I know a woman whose deck is ON HER SURVEY but was never permitted, and the building department sent her notice. The deck was built with 4x4's instead of 6x6's, and after spending $7K on lumber alone, she now gets to spend the money paying a LICENSED demo guy to tear it down. I'm actually sorry for her, she's in her 70's and is just salt of the earth type people. But hey - if the thing had been built right, she could have paid an engineer and the permit fee and been done with it.

That's insane. Why not get a permit to have someone to replace the 4x4's with 6x6's & have an engineer ok the process?

Susan Betz · 06-17-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckman22

That's insane. Why not get a permit to have someone to replace the 4x4's with 6x6's & have an engineer ok the process?

Because they built a roof on and the 4x4's are an integral part of the design. It's a mess.

Michaeljp86 · 06-18-2008, 12:20 AM

If you report it you will screw the guy doing the deck, not the old lady. Who knows after this he may start his new deck business putting you out of business.

If this happened here and I reported it nothing would happen. If by slight chance the building inspector did come out he would just ask anyone around if they seen the bears game then leave. Even if the deck was built out of cardboard 14' high and above a pile razor blades on the side of a day care.

06-17-2008, 09:59 AM	#1
fourcornerhome View Profile fourcornerhome Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (262) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: home improvement contractor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Aurora Ohio Posts: 262	What Would You Do I'm kind of upset with this one. Old widow,about 75,wants a deck. This was a referral and she wants a quality job.I went to her house 4 different times with reworked proposals. Deck is too big,deck is too small,how much for redwood,cedar,composite,pt. and on and on .Lady was nice on every visit and the job seemed like a go,but she needed to think about it.Don't hear from her for a while so I call and she says she is going with someone else.(a friend of her son).He can do it for so much cheaper and she can't believe the difference in prices.I feel a little offended because she said this in such a way as to imply I was ripping her off.I should just let it go, but I have like 10 hours into this one. So I take a detour and do a drive by and notice something missing...A PERMIT! I got a feeling this friend of her son also lacks insurance,licencing in the city and bonding.(this is what is required in Ohio and in this city to build a deck).Now I understand a guy has gotta eat but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.Part of me says live and let live but the bitter part says rat him out.What do you guys think?

06-17-2008, 10:07 AM	#2
MALCO.New.York View Profile MALCO.New.York Handle It! Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (9,381) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Handle It! Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA Posts: 9,381	Re: What Would You Do Snitches end up in ditches. Send her an invoice for the time spent and go on with life. __________________ Something to One may be Nothing to another! Ultimate Wisdom--------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

06-17-2008, 10:12 AM	#3
kevjob View Profile kevjob Remodeling GC Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,033) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Remodeling GC Trade: Remodeling General Contractor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 2,033	Re: What Would You Do maybe a call to the building dept to let them know there may be an un safe deck. The issue is safety for the older woman what if he does an inferior job and it collapses? __________________ Kevin Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling Kitchen Remodeling Denver

06-17-2008, 11:37 AM	#5
Cdat View Profile Cdat egotistical prick Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,633) Photos (9) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity egotistical prick Trade: Wood Inlay Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Swartz Creek, Michigan Posts: 2,633	Re: What Would You Do Report him and let her know why you did it. She hired the guy knowing full well he was not capable of doing the job. She just wanted it done cheaply. I'd also introduce the guy to my friend, Mr. Pipe Wrench. If not him, at least his vehicle.

06-17-2008, 11:44 AM	#6
Cole View Profile Cole Mod / ArchiBuilder Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,611) Photos (1) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Mod / ArchiBuilder Trade: Design/Build Outdoor Living Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ArkLaTexOma Posts: 6,611	Re: What Would You Do I agree with the above responses, one thing I have to add. ********Charge For Estimates********* If you even charged just $25, I bet this lady would have not paid it. Let other guys have to deal with these price shoppers. Chalk it up and move on. __________________ Tulsa's Leader in Outdoor Living Construction \| Facebook \| Tulsa Pergola Builder \| Tulsa Outdoor Kitchens

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06-17-2008, 12:57 PM	#8
MALCO.New.York View Profile MALCO.New.York Handle It! Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (9,381) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Handle It! Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA Posts: 9,381	Re: What Would You Do Makes me think of an episode of The Brady Bunch where Little Cindy, the baby of the Bunch, was reprimanded by her parents for being a Tattle Tale. "Oooooh. I'm telling". __________________ Something to One may be Nothing to another! Ultimate Wisdom--------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

06-17-2008, 04:11 PM	#9
fourcornerhome View Profile fourcornerhome Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (262) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: home improvement contractor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Aurora Ohio Posts: 262	Re: What Would You Do charging for estimates is tough around here..the first thing about 80% of my calls ask is "are your estimates free?' if I say no,they are $25.00 , the caller will say no thanks.This lady was referred and asked for free estimate! I billed a guy once after the fact , when I found out it was just for an insurance claim and he didn't intend to even do the repair,and this guy had went off on me.

06-17-2008, 04:59 PM	#10
Splinter View Profile Splinter The Remodeler Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (940) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity The Remodeler Trade: Home Remodeler Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 940	Re: What Would You Do Cdat is making a big assumption here.. How do we know she isnt getting a quality product with this other carpenter? We dont... I'm not a fan of snitching on someone unless they're really a HUGE dickhead. This widow is NOT taking bread from your family's mouth just because she went with someone else... It's her right to choose whomever she wants... However, since there is a lot of time spent on this project already, I absolutely would send her a bill, and give her some incentive to pay it by stating you know about the lack of permits somewhere on the bill... __________________ - Alex Long Island Remodeling Contractor

06-17-2008, 05:44 PM	#12
MALCO.New.York View Profile MALCO.New.York Handle It! Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (9,381) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Handle It! Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA Posts: 9,381	Re: What Would You Do Nothing personal. NOW carry this attitude to ALL parts of YOUR life. None of us can. Ever drove drunk or stoned? Cheated a little itty bit on your taxes? Ad Infinitum! But this is just MY perspective. That is what life is. Our individual and collective perspectives. __________________ Something to One may be Nothing to another! Ultimate Wisdom--------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE Last edited by MALCO.New.York; 06-17-2008 at 05:51 PM.

06-17-2008, 05:44 PM	#13
Tom R View Profile Tom R Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,484) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Carpenter Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6,484	Re: What Would You Do Whether you report them or not is your business, - - but the fact of the matter is, SHE USED YOU. She squeezed you for your know-how and then gave it to the know-now. Not very nice of her, - - but you share the blame, too. Don't give away information without a signature.

06-17-2008, 05:51 PM	#15
OCRS View Profile OCRS Steve Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (844) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Steve Trade: Residential Renovations Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sarsfield, Ontario, Canada Posts: 844	Re: What Would You Do With HOs like that it's good to have a design/build company. She can take as much of your time as she wants. Until the contract to build is signed, it's still in the design phase at your hourly rate.

06-17-2008, 05:54 PM	#16
Susan Betz View Profile Susan Betz Custom Fence Builder Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (906) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Custom Fence Builder Trade: Fence Manufacture and Installation Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 906	Re: What Would You Do If she's reported, can she get a permit after the fact? I ask because it can be done here, if the structure is built properly. If the guy built the deck correctly, she'll have to pay an engineer to OK the structure, then she has all the permit fees to pay. If he didn't build it correctly, she's screwed. We have an insane building department here, they don't wait for reports, they do visuals and see if the structure is permitted. I know a woman whose deck is ON HER SURVEY but was never permitted, and the building department sent her notice. The deck was built with 4x4's instead of 6x6's, and after spending $7K on lumber alone, she now gets to spend the money paying a LICENSED demo guy to tear it down. I'm actually sorry for her, she's in her 70's and is just salt of the earth type people. But hey - if the thing had been built right, she could have paid an engineer and the permit fee and been done with it. __________________ Fences of Distinction, Ocala, FL http://www.fencesofdistinction.com

06-17-2008, 08:39 PM	#17
DavidC View Profile DavidC DavidC Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,917) Photos (95) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity DavidC Trade: Remodeler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: NNY Posts: 1,917	Re: What Would You Do FWIW, I wouldn't report her. It's true you got burned, and your at least partly to blame, and that it really really sucks and probably won't be the last time. But your energy is best spent making sure the customers you do get have the best experience you can deliver. It's a much wiser expenditure. Good Luck Dave __________________ www.CookContractingLLC.com

06-18-2008, 12:20 AM	#20
Michaeljp86 View Profile Michaeljp86 EVIL GENIUS Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,214) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (1) Toolbox (0) View All Activity EVIL GENIUS Trade: General Contractor, electrical, fabrication, & welding Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Southwest Michigan The welfare wonderland Posts: 2,214	Re: What Would You Do If you report it you will screw the guy doing the deck, not the old lady. Who knows after this he may start his new deck business putting you out of business. If this happened here and I reported it nothing would happen. If by slight chance the building inspector did come out he would just ask anyone around if they seen the bears game then leave. Even if the deck was built out of cardboard 14' high and above a pile razor blades on the side of a day care. __________________ I am just a vessel from which genius flows -Homer Simpson Global warming is a myth, like evolution and the metric system. U.S. Coast Guard

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