What Ever Happened To....

Artisanmike

What ever happened to the good ol' rough-in/scratch and browncoat for tubs and showers method? More and more I see and have been asked to Hardi-back a shower or throw a half inch float right over the greenboard. Walls are never plumb and more often than not they need at least a half inch+ to bring them back to plumb! (points at the framers in da house). It just seems cheap to me. If they want to save a buck they should turn off the lights when they leave the room


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IHI

I was cryin to a drywall buddy about a job I did awhile back (patch in where I removed a window) and the homeowner had a 4' straight edge going around after my first coat and said there was a 1/8" dip in one spot. I thought it was funny since the hhouse itself was plaster and looked like a typical plaster wavey house and asked him how the rest of the walls were...

anyways, the drywall buddy-and I know this is different than your plaster routine-goes onto tell me, a tape and mudders job is to hide and blend, not to screed and level.

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copusbuilder

Well, I would say your screwing up by trying to get te walls square. In these parts we just trim the tile a little and tell the customer the walls were off

Well, I don't but it isn't uncommon to see that done. It seems few people care about quality. But if you provide it and find a customer that appreciates it you have a customer for life.

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Gordo

Artisian Mike I hear you. The old school style tub and shower tile seems to be a lost art. I know performing the demo on these is a bear. There must have been a lot of labor put into those things. What we do to plumb the walls out is use furring strips to build out the thickness of the tiling flange of the tub or the thickness of the folded over corners of the shower pan. We also use Durock on walls---we like this because the sheets are stiffer than hardibacker. We mortar all corners and seams. For those super high dollar jobs we use a paint on waterproof/anti-fracture membrane before we tile. Any old school tilers out there from the 40's or 50's? I'd love to pick your brain.

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Mike Finley

Crap, don't complain at least the Hardi over the studs is a vast improvement of mastic over drywall!

What percentage better do you think a mud job is over a Hardi job and with what criteria to judge it by.

About the only time a mud job sees the light of day around here is when a customer wants a tiled shower floor.

Gordo

Sounds like everybody is using hardi instead of durock. I left some hardi and durock outside for a couple of months (a backyard experiement). The hardi was all rotted/mildewed/flakey and the durock just had a little dirt that needed brushing off. Does anyone else use durock? Also, when doing mud floors---do you use mud mix or your own special blend? We like to make our own.

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Artisanmike

No joke on those cement shower demo's! Even with respirators theres enough dust in your nose when you finish to mix a small batch of dry pack if yuh needed it..haha. I'll use Hardi-backer or Durock for a kitchen splash before I would float it. Cement work can get pretty messy and that wash plaster aggregate, no matter how well you cover the countertop, has a way of getting into or under almost anything. I'm not from the 40's or 50's. Those Old timer tile guys can be quite the characters though. Full of info, piss and vineger. Quote " ******************** when I was your age I was floatin' tiling and groutin 5 tub showers a day!". Can you imagine what that workmanship looked like ? lol.
Mud job compared to a Hardi job? There probably isnt that great of a difference, aside from having a greater control of the finished underlay with the mud. But I'm sure that can be argued.To be honest, pride and ego have a big play in it too. On a side note though, lets say that you paper the walls (tar paper) and shim up some hardi or durock.You can end up with a substantial space for moisture collection between the paper and the underlay. This might cause a quicker corosion of the "moisture resistant" paper than normal. I would think so anyway. But I havent been doing this long enough to see my work that far gone. I'm probably just a whipper snapper to alot of you as I've only been at a "journeyman" level for about 11 years. But I digress. Moisture and ego are the difference between mud and board! lol. We use our own mix on on all the mud work. For floor mud we use a 4 to 1 mix..4 sand to 1 cement (common cement).Wall mud is a 4-1-1 mix. 4 sand , 1 cement, 1 lime.A greater ratio of cement makes the finish mud coat more sticky and harder to work the wall with your darby.All shovels being as close to equal as possible to keep all the mixes constant. Pray for the helper that screws that up! haha. As an apprentice my nuts were busted relentlessly. Its only fair I continue the tradition..heee!

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Teetorbilt

Artisan, just a mention on the respirators. You are not confusing them with particle masks, correct? If dust or any chems. are getting past your respirators, you need to contact that co. fast or correct their use.

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Artisanmike

No no they are specc'd for the job but you practically need a hazmat suit for all that dust. Specially when its a tear out in a house that being lived in. And the HO's need all over access.Now that I'm thinkin about out it..I'm thinkin wet suits and oxygen tanks! ..Deep Sea Tile.. biggest harpoons in the business.

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copusbuilder

I tell my guys to use Durock. They like the ease of working with Hardi but my understanding is it is not waterproof merely water resistant.
I brought this up with a H.D. Rep and he showed me the hardi sitting in a jar of water for 3 years. I explained that tree stumps dont rot when oxygen is not available and if he took that out he might see a change.

Since they are priced the approx. the same it seems to make more sense.

Funny, I leave stuff out to the weather to see how it holds up as well. I now have my laminate flooring and a chunk of granite setting out. The laminate has held up with rain and sun suprisingly well. The granite will probably be there when I'm gone

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