Unhappy Customer

 
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:23 AM   #41
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Again thanks for all of the helpful replies. The driveway is done to city spec and they require 4" of aggregate base and 2" of HMA minimally. 2" is pretty standard for residential drives in this area. Like stated above California laws don't allow us to ask for more that 12% down and it's part of the reason I forgo even taking down payment on smaller jobs because it's simply not enough money to matter.
Like I said I take full responsibility for the asphalt not being the proper thickness but as I went and put eyes on the job I can see the area in question is directly in the middle of a birdbath where the screed possibly dipped and wasn't caught in time. I will be consulting with a lawyer on where do go from here. The ball is in the customers court as of now I won't be tearing it out and will lay the option of capping the driveway out to him but like I said he has work scheduled to begin Jan 5th so if he proceeds with another contractor we shall see what happens
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Old 12-29-2017, 09:49 AM   #42
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Collect money before starting( even the 12%) and have a solid contract. A good contract ensures you you get paid for what you do.

In this case, you best have a plan in place. My bet the HO is going to ignore you.

Did you know that the asphalt was only a inch thick and was supposed to be 2 inches ? And why would you permanently asphalt the bird baths in place unless the HO OK'd that ?

From an outside point of view I see it as you tried to cut corners and save money by only using an inch of asphalt. And that's probably how the HO sees it too. If it's supposed to be 2 inches you do it 2 inches. Whether you knew the correct thickness or not, you're at fault.

Last edited by kirkdc; 12-29-2017 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 12-29-2017, 10:18 AM   #43
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkdc View Post
Collect money before starting( even the 12%) and have a solid contract. A good contract ensures you you get paid for what you do.

In this case, you best have a plan in place. My bet the HO is going to ignore you.

Did you know that the asphalt was only a inch thick and was supposed to be 2 inches ? And why would you permanently asphalt the bird baths in place unless the HO OK'd that ?

From an outside point of view I see it as you tried to cut corners and save money by only using an inch of asphalt. And that's probably how the HO sees it too. If it's supposed to be 2 inches you do it 2 inches. Whether you knew the correct thickness or not, you're at fault.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with an asphalt paver but we set the depth to 2-3/4" pre compaction so it will compact to 2" but as I stated sometimes the screed dips and if not caught in time things like this can occur. What you are implying is that we intentionally put the asphalt down thin to save money and the answer is absolutely not. We periodically check the depth by stabbing a rod into the uncompacted mix. Once the mix is compacted I have absolutely no way of knowing how thick it is we just assume the paver did its job and laid it in at 2" it's not customary to go digging into the fresh asphalt to check depth post compaction.
Like stated numerous times above I take full responsibility for not catching the error and have tried to work with the home owner on remedys to the problem. I can assure you no skimping on materials took place I have tags from the plant and know what I paid for the materials. ive been in business 12 years and stand behind all of my work and have never had an issue and like I said I guarantee all of my work. The purpose of this thread was for me to get some opinions on the situation from others who may have gone through similar situations.
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Old 12-29-2017, 10:37 AM   #44
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkdc View Post
And why would you permanently asphalt the bird baths in place unless the HO OK'd that ?


In paving, a "bird bath" is just a bit of a dip in the pavement that holds water after a rain. Not all that uncommon unless the whole thing has enough slope to run the water off.
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Old 12-29-2017, 10:37 AM   #45
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Quote:
Originally Posted by That1guy View Post
I'm not sure if you're familiar with an asphalt paver but we set the depth to 2-3/4" pre compaction so it will compact to 2" but as I stated sometimes the screed dips and if not caught in time things like this can occur. What you are implying is that we intentionally put the asphalt down thin to save money and the answer is absolutely not. We periodically check the depth by stabbing a rod into the uncompacted mix. Once the mix is compacted I have absolutely no way of knowing how thick it is we just assume the paver did its job and laid it in at 2" it's not customary to go digging into the fresh asphalt to check depth post compaction.
Like stated numerous times above I take full responsibility for not catching the error and have tried to work with the home owner on remedys to the problem. I can assure you no skimping on materials took place I have tags from the plant and know what I paid for the materials. ive been in business 12 years and stand behind all of my work and have never had an issue and like I said I guarantee all of my work. The purpose of this thread was for me to get some opinions on the situation from others who may have gone through similar situations.


Donít defend yourself here any longer. If anyone wants to take the time to read back through the thread they will see it was not an intentional defect.
Iíve overseen thousands of miles of paving. Defects/inconsistencies, they happen no matter how many years experience you have and how many miles of road youíve paved. That goes for every trade, every project, and will always be. If anyone says different they are either lying or need to do bigger work.
You will be judged on your ability to make it right and that in itself takes more skill than just knowledge of the materials your working with.
If it were easy, everyone would do it.
The last perfect man was crucified, keep that in mind.


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Old 12-29-2017, 11:40 AM   #46
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Well, the ball isn't really inn their court.

If there is a minor defect, you have the right to fix it. The fact that they went and signed a contract with someone else just means they are a F@!K up, and have now set themselves up for not 1, but 2, Breach of Contract lawsuits.

Tell them you are coming over to fix the defect, and DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. If they refuse you access, sue the ever-lasting S#!t out of them for Breach of Contract.

And put a Mechanics Lien on the property.



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Old 12-29-2017, 01:08 PM   #47
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Show up on the same day the other contractor is scheduled to come out and just let it slip hey I haven't seen 1 penny from the job I did here

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Old 12-29-2017, 01:17 PM   #48
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post


In paving, a "bird bath" is just a bit of a dip in the pavement that holds water after a rain. Not all that uncommon unless the whole thing has enough slope to run the water off.

hahaha...sorry,
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Old 12-29-2017, 01:19 PM   #49
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Quote:
Originally Posted by That1guy View Post
I'm not sure if you're familiar with an asphalt paver but we set the depth to 2-3/4" pre compaction so it will compact to 2" but as I stated sometimes the screed dips and if not caught in time things like this can occur. What you are implying is that we intentionally put the asphalt down thin to save money and the answer is absolutely not. We periodically check the depth by stabbing a rod into the uncompacted mix. Once the mix is compacted I have absolutely no way of knowing how thick it is we just assume the paver did its job and laid it in at 2" it's not customary to go digging into the fresh asphalt to check depth post compaction.
Like stated numerous times above I take full responsibility for not catching the error and have tried to work with the home owner on remedys to the problem. I can assure you no skimping on materials took place I have tags from the plant and know what I paid for the materials. ive been in business 12 years and stand behind all of my work and have never had an issue and like I said I guarantee all of my work. The purpose of this thread was for me to get some opinions on the situation from others who may have gone through similar situations.
My apologies..and no I don't know diddly about paving. I'll shut up now.
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Old 12-29-2017, 02:31 PM   #50
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Quote:
Originally Posted by That1guy View Post
...The purpose of this thread was for me to get some opinions on the situation from others who may have gone through similar situations.
You definitely got some opinions.
Don't let the ball busters run ya off.
Take what you read, use what you can, disregard the others,
and come teach me something about asphalt.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:05 PM   #51
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Re: Unhappy Customer


I don't know, this is just really upsetting to read about.

One thing nobody has considered here which isn't the best idea but might work with a difficult customer.

Fix the areas that aren't 2", them give him a discount to match the other contractor. He just seems dead set on the lower price and this might be something you could settle on if you can afford a bit of a hit.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:39 PM   #52
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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I don't know, this is just really upsetting to read about. .


Don't get too upset. It's business chit happens sometimes.


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Old 12-29-2017, 07:44 PM   #53
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Re: Unhappy Customer


I just feel for him, I know the type of customer. I agree it's his fault that there is 1" areas but if it can be fixed it would be really stubborn of the guy to not let him fix it. This guy seems like a major D
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:45 PM   #54
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinglepot View Post
I don't know, this is just really upsetting to read about.

One thing nobody has considered here which isn't the best idea but might work with a difficult customer.

Fix the areas that aren't 2", them give him a discount to match the other contractor. He just seems dead set on the lower price and this might be something you could settle on if you can afford a bit of a hit.
When he first raised concerns about the bird baths a discount was offered to the guy he refused and said he wanted it fixed so we discussed options on fixing it and agreed on a fix but before I could come back he told me to cancel plans for additional work. This time period between us discussing fixes and the when I was suppose to start on the fixes is when he called other contractors and got prices.
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:14 PM   #55
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Re: Unhappy Customer


comments deleted. smh.
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Old 12-29-2017, 09:49 PM   #56
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Asking because I know squat about this.
What is the fix? Is it a lasting fix that can't be seen?
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:28 AM   #57
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Do you have it in writing that a fix was agreed upon this would help your case greatly.

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Old 12-30-2017, 05:26 PM   #58
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Re: Unhappy Customer


if it's 1" low in that one area, how about agreeing to an additional 1" to 1-1/2" across the board for the sake of getting it done quickly and easily?

Does the amount of asphalt you had delivered cover that 1800sqft at a depth of 2"? I'm guessing you guys have a rule of thumb that takes into account it's finished depth after compaction right?
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:55 PM   #59
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Several people asked if you had a contract. I didn't see you answer to any of them. Am I safe to assume you didn't have one ? You've been doing this type of work for many years yet never have a contract outlining the detials and payment methods? Do you think that having a contract could have helped you in this situation and possibly others situations in the future ? If I missed somehwere in this thread where you stated you had a contrcat I apologize. OTOH, if you didn't have one and only had a verbal agreement then the situation becomes a bigger challenge to overcome. Lawyer fees will quickly gobble up whatever money you will try to collect from the HO. But filing a lien is a good tactic to do immediately.

My apologies for my ignorance on some aspects of your profession and my comments but I can be a bit of a hardass when it comes to lecturing on having solid "legal and binding' contracts. Even if it's's a weak and crappy contract it still has some power value and lets the HO know he can't screw around with you.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:57 PM   #60
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Re: Unhappy Customer


He did have a contract but looks like it was missing some important things

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