Unhappy Customer

 
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:45 PM   #21
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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paver i always used ALWAYS stringlined the sub base. either i put it to grade, or had to pay him to. i wonder how the owner knew "where" to dig down and find it 1" deep? were there multiple test holes, or just the one?
That is what has me at a loss. I take full responsiblility for the asphalt not meeting requirements but curious why the home owner and inspector decided to dig into the middle of the driveway. As I stated In the beginning the driveway passed the original inspection which is just a visual I have never seen or would I expect an inspector to dig into the middle of fresh mix to check for depth.
I get the feeling the home owner was doing everything he could to make sure the driveway failed inspection because it is stated in my contract that jobs are done to meet inspection standards. If he got it to fail he could then refuse to pay me and hire the other cheaper contractor.
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:48 PM   #22
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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how many square feet we talking?
Just under 1800
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:44 PM   #23
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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Just under 1800
loader/skiddy/dump truck, you're out of there in a morning...do it and get it over and done with.
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Old 12-28-2017, 02:40 AM   #24
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Re: Unhappy Customer


So he thinks he is going to get your excavating and base for free. Can you reuse the 4" base? I don't know about paving but do landscaping. To remove the gravel would be close to $8-1000 and install and compact 22 yards at 4" base another ~$12-1400. if he lets you finish the job and can just tear out and re pave, and get paid you are probably making out better than just abandoning it now. I have a feeling this guy isn't the type to be reasonable though. His expectations were too high and you should of made your standards clear beforehand and you lost his trust though. I hope you can figure something out and get some money
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:07 AM   #25
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Tear out the asphalt and sue him for cost to do the base. Better yet, get payment for the base before you tear out the top coat. And it gets done on your schedule not your competitors.
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:08 AM   #26
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Re: Unhappy Customer


I'm not a lawyer either but have watched Judge Judy.
My guess is the h/o dug into the low spot. But it's customary to give the business a chance to correct an error. He's denying you that opportunity so the ball is in his court. If he had skin in the game (deposit) he wouldn't be so carefree about it.

I didn't notice your location, seems late in the year for paving work. Wouldn't it be possible in warmer weather to pave another layer on top?
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:16 AM   #27
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Expectations too high? He expected 2" and got 1. Half of what he planned on paying for.

He may have lucked out and found a thin spot in his search, but still not what owner was expecting.

Owner very well could be a dick head, but were this me, I'd try to remediate, or get out of the situation as clean publicity wise as I could, eat a few bucks, labor. Whatever. .

Just walking away in the long road will not be a good thing.

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Old 12-28-2017, 09:32 AM   #28
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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I'm not a lawyer either but have watched Judge Judy.
My guess is the h/o dug into the low spot. But it's customary to give the business a chance to correct an error. He's denying you that opportunity so the ball is in his court. If he had skin in the game (deposit) he wouldn't be so carefree about it.

I didn't notice your location, seems late in the year for paving work. Wouldn't it be possible in warmer weather to pave another layer on top?
I'm in Northern California while it's cold it's still possible to pave, but I had pretty much shut down paving project for the season but the home owner insisted it be done ASAP and against my better judgement we did it anyways.
I've tried discussing possible fixes and I am now cautious about throwing more money at it as I'm not positive payment will be made because of his unwillingness to work with me on a solution
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:33 AM   #29
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Re: Unhappy Customer


2" of asphalt is not a very good driveway. What's the guy drive a Prius? Anything heavier than that and that asphalt won't last long.

In my neck of the woods, 5" is pretty standard for residential, 3" asphalt base, 2" asphalt top coat.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:11 AM   #30
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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2" of asphalt is not a very good driveway. What's the guy drive a Prius? Anything heavier than that and that asphalt won't last long.

In my neck of the woods, 5" is pretty standard for residential, 3" asphalt base, 2" asphalt top coat.
Here they do 1-1/2 and 1-1/2. Id think if he put an 1-1/2 top coat all over hed be good to go. Get it in writing and make the ho put all the money in escrow.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:31 PM   #31
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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I'm not a lawyer either but have watched Judge Judy.
Judge judy said if someone is living in your building with no rental contract they can be thrown out by the police for trespassing.

My dad bought a 7 unit apartment building and one unit had illegal mexican immigrants in it. It was never the same people there, there was always people in that unit but never the same ones. Police wouldnt do anything and courthouse wouldnt do anything because we couldnt fill out the form because nobody had names, drivers licenses #. Anything you needed on the form and the stupid women in the courthouse refused to except the form that way.

If it was me I would either leave it like it is and let they guy win and move on with your life or dig it out with your gravel. If you leave it he could have someone put another layer on and get a lice thick driveway cheap.

If your going to waste your time and not get paid I would tell him you will leave it and take it out jan 4th that way he will have a driveway until his new one is in. That makes you look good and you can haul out your gravel and not leave him any time to think about other ways to screw you over like demanding you bring the gravel back.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:34 PM   #32
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Get your lawyer to send him a registered letter stating your position

Generally people's attitudes change once lawyers are involved

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Old 12-28-2017, 03:42 PM   #33
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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Judge judy said if someone is living in your building with no rental contract they can be thrown out by the police for trespassing.

My dad bought a 7 unit apartment building and one unit had illegal mexican immigrants in it. It was never the same people there, there was always people in that unit but never the same ones. Police wouldnt do anything and courthouse wouldnt do anything because we couldnt fill out the form because nobody had names, drivers licenses #. Anything you needed on the form and the stupid women in the courthouse refused to except the form that way.
Don't blame the cops, they are handcuffed by department policy and department policy is dictated by political appointees. Blame the voters for giving them the power.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:25 PM   #34
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Here's my take.

1) Do you care about what this guy will say about you to others?

2) What do you want this guy to say to others about your service?

Once you answer those you will know what to do.

What I would do is:

Take a ride over to his house and discuss options. cut up a couple other areas to determine depth. If it was just that one spot, you win. If it wasn't, he wins.

If you win, I would tell him that you will repair the low spot and expect payment in full for the job (You can discount if you wish for not doing a good job in the first place).

If he wins, tell him you will tear out and lay a drive to the proper thickness and expect payment in full (again, you can discount for not doing a good him in the first place), or you can offer to show up ready to tear out his drive if he has a cashiers check for the original tear out and laying of the new base.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:25 PM   #35
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Re: Unhappy Customer


Thanks guys for all of the great input gonna try one last time to get the customer to let me try and fix my mistake before I wash my hands of it and cut my losses
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:31 PM   #36
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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Here's my take.

1) Do you care about what this guy will say about you to others?

2) What do you want this guy to say to others about your service.
He might become known as "That1guy".
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Old 12-28-2017, 05:49 PM   #37
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Re: Unhappy Customer


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Thanks guys for all of the great input gonna try one last time to get the customer to let me try and fix my mistake before I wash my hands of it and cut my losses
I would say don't walk away as much as a bad reputation can hurt you so can one as a push over.

You will be amazed how quickly a letter from your lawyer will get him to think about letting you provide a fix

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Old 12-28-2017, 08:58 PM   #38
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Re: Unhappy Customer


I'm not a paver, but I am in Northern California, so I know a couple of things about California Law.

First, I don't believe the customer can fire you and hire a different Contractor. You must be given a reasonable opportunity to fix the defect.

DO NOT WALK AWAY! Period. If you do, you lose.

At this point, if the customer refuses to allow you to repair this, they are in breach in contract. If you walk away, you are in breach of contract.

I don't know if 2" is a good job or not, but if the contract said 2", and there are places where it is 1", you need to fix it. It doesn't matter how they found out, if it's true, you are responsible.

If it goes to court, the Judge is going to know less than I do about paving, and he/she will be looking at National Standards. Make sure the job is up to National Standards.

In California, we are not allowed to be "ahead" in the job at any time. It is commonly suggested here, and in just about everywhere else it is legal I guess, but it is absolutely illegal here. What you can do, is get a down payment, and schedule progress payments. You can also get payments when materials are delivered.

Also, if a customer refuses payment, and you remove materials that are already placed/installed, it is theft on your part. If you pickup materials that were delivered to the jobsite, but not installed, you can go and pick them up.

Make sure your contracts are up to date, and that you dot your "I's" and cross your "T's". If you don't have the proper disclosures, you lose the right to lien, and you will almost certainly lose in court.

Good luck. I hope this helps. It might be wise to consult an attorney, as distasteful as that is.




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Old 12-28-2017, 09:31 PM   #39
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Re: Unhappy Customer


I second Deltas position.

Thickness of paved asphalt is not standardized for the nation. Its based upon geotechnical observations, recommendations, design of the section and mix design. I frequently use a single 2 lift for private roadways, down to 34 degrees and rising.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:53 PM   #40
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Re: Unhappy Customer


My concern would be the "bird baths" and the picky customer. Im no expert on laying asphalt but if its hard or impossible to eliminate the chance of a bird bath then I would be worried if you fix it he will never be happy until it ripped out and redone. Then if there is more birdbaths he still wont want to pay you and now you did 2 driveways for free and he will be running around town talking about how that jackass did his driveway twice and he had to have it ripped out and done by someone else.

If this guy is impossible to please your just adding fuel to his fire.

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