Unfaithful Employees/contractors

Mr. Wms

This is my first time on the site. My question to everyone is what is up
with these guys you train for a year or so and then they run off and
leave you hanging to start their own business? I have so far had about
5 guys in 7 years pull this same stunt. I am a perfectionist when it comes to my work. I train and show these guys EVERYTHING I know so
we can get the job done right the first time. I think maybe my training
habits and being too nice is starting to backfire in my face.

Don't get me wrong I know that there is enough work for everyone out
here, but I am starting to feel a little slighted!! And just so you know
I paid them very good.

Richard

Hate to say it, but everyone and anyone is under the impression that having a company of their own is the best bet these days. (and a lot of the time, it is) Sucks that you've put time into them, but hopefully they all left on good terms and will come back after failing in the business (cause the odds say, some of them will)...What we're you paying them and what was their retirement and benefits package? Did you give bonuses or incentives? That's all guys want these days. Guys are sick of doing all the work and sometimes not even getting a thank you let alone a Christmas bonus or paid time off.

Also, did you train them up from nothing or did they have some experience already? It's a whole different ballgame if they had other training....in that case they we're just passing through with you...

__________________
Rich

Driftwood

Who trained You ?

Mike Finley

Boy this is probably going to get some boos.

On your next hire

- think about hiring a person who fits more of the employee mold than an entrepreneur mold.

- treat your guys like mushrooms. (keep em in the dark and feed em lots of you know what)

Off hand those comments sound harsh, but you have to temper them with reality. On the first one there are guys who you just know aren't going to stick around, they are a bit too advanced knowing the game and how it works, on the second comment what I mean is it's fine to teach them the trade, it's another to teach them the business, specifically your business. When I start getting the 20 questions about how do you charge for this, how do you do that... you have to think about the answers and the motivations.

On the plus side, you also need to think much more about other aspects of what keeps employees happy. Compensation is at the bottom of the list. They have to be fairly compensated, that's a given, but when all you focus on is compensation then there is no connection between the employee and the job other than money.

MattCoops

Mr. Wms,

Although it can be reasonably discouraging for you,
just keep doing what you're doing.
It's american nature to have an entrepraneurial spirit.
I wouldn't be that upset. Just keep your business running. There's no room in this economy for jealousy or envy.
Just keep it in the back of your mind that you mentored this new company.

And just remember someone trained you. It's just a cycle of business.

You'll probably find these same guys coming back to you for work.
Just tell them "sorry, got no room, I'm growing my own business".

Let that disappointment in seeing these guys hit the hills feed your energy for operating your own establishment. Turn your negatives into positives.

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

thom

I'll go you one better.

My plumber of several years decided to build his own house. I drew the plans for him and held his hand throughout the process. He got it built fine. Now he's decided to go into my business. His price for plumbing my houses is up 25% this year over last year.

dougchips

Most of us learn a trade from someone and when we feel ready we start our own gig. When my time came I was polite enough to move 120 miles away and not compete with those who mentored me.
SOme people have manners and some are just scumbags.

MattCoops

I doubt you moved because you didn't want to step on your mentors toes

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

dougchips

Ok Matt 92%. I was in Maine for 3 years with a goal of having finding myself and a career. I had a remodeling background but wanted to focus on a single trade. When I was not working my primary job I would go out and learn different trades. Flooring, kitchens, decks, doors and windows, fencing........... Every trades person that mentored me was concerned that I would learn their trade and compete with them in the market place. After 10 years I have kept my word!

The other 8%--- I moved to Mass to handle recruiting installers and overseeing projects for a large company. Since this job was not the career that I wanted, the move was temporary and just for the experience. When the little buzzer went off in my head I parted ways and decided to start my own company.

I started my business in MA 92% to keep my word.
5% because I dislike Maine
2% because the weather here is just a little warmer.
1% because if I was in Maine my father in law would use me as his slave every weekend.

MattCoops

and 1% because Mass actually has civilization where you can find people to work for.

Unless your remodeling antique shops and beef jerky stands Maine is pretty desolate

Kittery is nice, has an awesme lobster pool with all you can eat salad bar
and Ogguncuitt has that great Marginal Way thats sure for a score with the lady

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

dougchips

Ogguncuitt---lady---was really a man! The town is mostly gay, hopefully you were sober when you scored if not....

Most of my friends in Maine travel a 1-1.5 hour radius in order to find enough work. I work from Boston to the bottom of RI, so my travel can be up to 1 hour because of traffic. The biggest difference is Maine is a DIY state and everyone has a "brother who can do it". Less money a year but their cost of living is much lower.

BTW, we were in southern Maine, OOB/ Saco area.

MattCoops

ha ha, yeah, it is pretty fabulous up there
my old lady liked it. Although I was disappointed that Barnicle Bill's was shut down and some "Daisy's Too" or something like that was only place open

and by the way, the gay crowd are great spenders. And if you remodel their bathroom, you'll get a ton of referrals

we did a job at Lake Sebago
had to take a ferry to get to the island
bath remodel, big bucks
jumped off some 50 ft cliff into the lake, pretty fun time
we did a bid to paint the resort there, but they hired some mexicans instead

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

dougchips

You scored on vacation in a gay resort town and your wife was ok with it? You are correct about gays/referrals, luckily most contractors are homophobic so I get the jobs.

tkle

Young family guys.It's hard to leave a secure job when you got kids to support.

Mr. Wms

Those were some good tips. I am never jealous or envious of anyone
trying to better themselves, in fact I encourage it. I think it is the
way they leave no call no shows. But it's no big deal I'm just blowing
off a little steam. WHO trained me? HA HA real funny!

Anyway I 've been in business now 7 years as a residential/commercial
contractor with no advertising. I enjoy teaching the trade and craft but I will keep in mind the point about answering business questions.
That's happened way too often.

john elliott

Not from me it won't
Some excellent advice right there. Any contractor who doesn't follow it might as well start a business school alongside his trade school

John

__________________
Ed the Roofer said "John too, in his crass and blunt demeanor.............."

Downeast

Where are you at ? Reason I am asking is because I am going down to the Raleigh NC area next week to look at the area for a possable relocation..... If I like the area I will buy a home and move there. Wanted to go to FLA but the wife wants more of a season change and hates extreeme heat ,so this is a compromise. I am tired of the long winters up here in NE, though this winter has been very nice.

I be looking to work for someone as I don't want to run my own business at least as the solo I was. So a decent wage with a reputable builder is what I am looking for. Also a builder / contractor who is not of the prenandrethal type. The yelling screaming ah type is unaceptable behavior.


I know I don't ask for much,lol

Gordo

Put the golden handcuffs on them.

__________________
Looks like some pros were here.

Mark Twenhafel

Mr. Wlms --

Your original post made me think a bit about myself. A lot of what you say is true, but there's also the old saying, "What any man did, another man can do." I've always heard that saying in reference to picking locks, solving puzzles, that sort of thing, but it also goes for business. The kicker is that character and personality is always an issue. As you know, running a business is a different skill than knowing a trade. Here's a question for you, and I don't have the same experience as you, so it's just a question from the sidelines. :-)

Do you see yourself growing your business in such a way that your business doesn't need you there to make the decisions? I.e., that it and the people can run themselves without you (while you retain ownership, of course). Or, do you see yourself as a hands-on guy who is the first to arrive and the last to leave?

The reason I ask is that I've always heard that the owner should strive to make the business able to run itself--that this is the prelude to being able to sell or cash out. 'Course, I would reckon that most here are hands-on types who love the trade and love the work and would never see themself as some sort of suit in an office getting reports from their managers. Well, that's not what I really mean. Where I'm going is that most people subconsciously hire people like themselves--and that's exactly what you seem to be doing. Maybe you should think about giving some of these guys more responsibility--moving *them* up the food chain so that you can move up the food chain yourself. Of course, if they didn't have the character in the first place, then all you training and giving of lessons and knowledge might have been sowing seeds on rocky ground, and they will never end up being viable competitors.

Here's the bottom line: if good people keep leaving your tent, maybe you need to grow your tent bigger. As Lyndon Johnson once said, some people you have to keep inside your tent even if you'd rather not, because you sure don't want them to be outside the tent p*ssing in!

Here's a question for everyone: As I go to work everyday I think about the day when I'll leave to start my own company. :-) How do people here feel about profit-sharing, making the employee more interested in efficiency then in milking the clock?

Thanks for letting me ramble,
Mark T.

P.S. Just so you know, Mr. Wlm, I'm a 49-year-old student in a construction trade school, working full-time at minimum wage as part of the training.

Gordo

Boo.

Old right hand man went on his own.......folded after 2 years. Smart guy......he graduated from U. of Va.

He did not have the heart for it.

Train'em to know how hard this business is......its scary out there.

__________________
Looks like some pros were here.