UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-03-2009, 11:50 AM   #1
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


hello: maybe someone can help me.
I need to get into compliance an existing 1 hour UL fire rated wall.
The wall was made out with 6",20 gauge studs 16@center 5/8" drywall 1 X on each side, 5" insulation. I been told by engineers to add 2- 5/8" on each side but I need to put in the PLANS for city approval.
What I need is to get the UL # so I can find it and forward it to my incompetent architect so he can put in the plan.

I do appreciate your help guys.
Claudio, Thank you

Ps: owner don't want to demolish existing wall.

Last edited by GCinmiami; 12-03-2009 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Grammar
GCinmiami is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   
 

Old 12-03-2009, 11:59 AM   #2
Pompass Ass
 
bwalley's Avatar
 
Trade: Certified Building and Certified A/C Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Plant City, Florida
Posts: 2,090
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinmiami View Post
hello: maybe someone can help me.
I need to get into compliance an existing 1 hour UL fire rated wall.
The wall was made out with 6",20 gauge studs 16@center 5/8" drywall 1 X on each side, 5" insulation. I been told by engineers to add 2- 5/8" on each side but I need to put in the PLANS for city approval.
What I need is to get the UL # so I can find it and forward it to my incompetent architect so he can put in the plan.

I do appreciate your help guys.
Claudio, Thank you

Ps: owner don't want to demolish existing wall.
You get 20 minutes for each layer of Type X, so 3 layers 60 minutes, stud 20 minutes, insulation 20 minutes, 3 layers of Type X 60 minutes.

That is not a 3 hour rated wall assmebly, it is a 2 hour 40 minute wall.

bwalley is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to bwalley For This Useful Post:
GCinmiami (12-03-2009)
Old 12-03-2009, 12:13 PM   #3
Dave from Macatawa
 
macatawacab's Avatar
 
Trade: GC, cabinet maker and remodeler
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 277
Rewards Points: 250

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Google the 3hour UL assembly and you will find you need "C" rated 5/8 not just "X". Screw pattern, stagger joints, etc. there are any number of assemblies that work and seveal different #'s. You have to identify your building type for the UL # to apply in many cases.

your architect should have the UL book on line or in his office. It is about 700 pages.

I can't imagine where you need a 3hr assembly? I park cars under dwellings and that requires a 2hr separation. Fire protection system, building type, building system, etc are all required so this is not a one look up answer.
macatawacab is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to macatawacab For This Useful Post:
GCinmiami (12-03-2009)
Old 12-03-2009, 12:18 PM   #4
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,085
Rewards Points: 1,370

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Google "Gypsum association fire resistance design handbook". That will give you all the assemblies you could wish for.

Several guides refer to three layers 1/2" type X, which is exceeded by three layers 5/8 type X.

As per that guide, three layers each side=three hour assembly.
Anti-wingnut is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Anti-wingnut For This Useful Post:
GCinmiami (12-03-2009)
Old 12-03-2009, 12:23 PM   #5
Dave from Macatawa
 
macatawacab's Avatar
 
Trade: GC, cabinet maker and remodeler
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 277
Rewards Points: 250

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Just had a flash back to a bad inspection re 2hr assembly in gyp, the ends had to lap full. the City of Grand Rapids inspector took the book to the literal drawing. had a rework on that one.
macatawacab is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:05 PM   #6
Architect
 
CORN's Avatar
 
Trade: Architect
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


I'm guessing this is due to an occupancy separation. I'd stick it back on the architect with an RFI. Could be the architect has determined a 3 hr. separation is not required, he is the one that needs to talk to the AHJ.
CORN is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to CORN For This Useful Post:
GCinmiami (12-03-2009)
Old 12-03-2009, 01:14 PM   #7
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Thank you for your responses.
The architect doesn't know where he can find it You all can imagine how I feel about it I been dealing with this guy for almost TWO years.
I am at Miami-dade county, Florida.
All I need is to find it in the UL book (does the difficult part) I don't have the book. So this guy can put it in the plans with the UL DESCRIPTION.
It has to be that I can just put two more layer of 5/8" drywall 1 hour fire rated on each side.

THANK YOU
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:15 PM   #8
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


The city Fire department determined that it had to 3 hours.
It is an Industrial facilty
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:34 PM   #9
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


I have another one for you.
I am fixing a house in City of Doral, the townhouse kitchen (mysteriously) caught fire the city claimed that the structure (second floor) hambro system was damaged, I check it myself and it was not visual cracks on concrete or damage to the metal, I get and structural engineer to check it out he signs me a letter saying the structure was not damaged.
Still the city official did not accept the Letter from the engineer I had to do a load test for the second floor per Miami Dade county code.
Ok, had to find another Structural Engineer who approve the Load Test, I had to do the load 1 foot of water on 300 square feet for three days.
This guys here are difficult.
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 04:36 PM   #10
Pro
 
d-rock's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry/drywall/plaster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 377
Rewards Points: 250

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


3 layers 5/8 type X -each side -3 5/8 therma fiber insulation . If its a shaft you need core board and core stud/track.
d-rock is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 04:51 PM   #11
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Thank you D-RoCK what I need IS "the most difficult" is to get the right page from the book showing a 6" inch metal stud + insulation + three 5/8 inch drywall so we can put in the plans THAT'S THE DIFFICULT PART an showing UL# with details
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 06:46 PM   #12
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,085
Rewards Points: 1,370

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinmiami View Post
Thank you D-RoCK what I need IS "the most difficult" is to get the right page from the book showing a 6" inch metal stud + insulation + three 5/8 inch drywall so we can put in the plans THAT'S THE DIFFICULT PART an showing UL# with details
This really shouldn't be all that difficult for you , and is inexcusable for the architect

From the "2009 Gypsum Association fire resistance design manual"

Exhibit 2925 Pg 56. UL #V438

1 5/8" metal studs 24" OC. Three layers 5/8" Type X each side.


General rules and conditions pg 9:

#14 Metal studs are nominal 25ga
#15 Stud depths greater than those specified shall be permitted. Heavier gauge metal studs than those specified shall be permitted

I would say more, but I'm done scolding you
Anti-wingnut is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Anti-wingnut For This Useful Post:
GCinmiami (12-03-2009)
Old 12-03-2009, 07:07 PM   #13
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Hello ANTI-WINGNUT:
LET ME TELL YOU: I DO HAVE AN EXISTING WALL there MADE OUT OF 6" Metal stud with 5/8" drywall on each side 18 feet height.
That's already there ....in place The owner does not want to Demo it, me either. industrial/commercial units.
I been searching in the Underwriters Laboratories directory all day ( partially all day) code by code I did send them a message; I did contacted Georgia Pacific they sent me the same info with stud 1 5/8 I have that in the plan already BUT I Have a 6 inch stud installed already the wall is 18 feet height 150 feet long I should be able to get the right info and put in the plan three different engineers had come to the job one said install 2 more layer of 5/8 inch drywall (that's logical ) on each side that should be it BUT MIAMI DADE COUNTY WILL NOT ACCEPT A LETTER FROM ANY ENGINEER IT HAS TO BE IN THE PLAN WITH THE UL# AND I CAN'T FIND IT. I STARTED MY SEARCH TODAY AND I WILL FIND IT.
Thank you for your help any way. I will keep searching.
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:23 PM   #14
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,085
Rewards Points: 1,370

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinmiami View Post
IT HAS TO BE IN THE PLAN WITH THE UL# AND I CAN'T FIND IT. I STARTED MY SEARCH TODAY AND I WILL FIND IT.
I gave you the UL number, and the Gypsum associations UL accepted exceptions. You are allowed to substitute heavier and deeper studs, and on a closer center than what was originally exhibited in V438. It's all there on pg 9.

Go to www.gypsum.org You have everything you need
Anti-wingnut is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:27 PM   #15
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


hello to my new friends:
I found this early today BUT the problem here in Miami-Dade is that the city will not accept changes whta I have existing is 6" with 5/8 each side.
The description below says 1/2 inch drywall and believe me they will turn down the inspection.
SYSTEM DESCRIPTION
Construct partition in accordance with require-ments of tested and
approved designs to obtain the follow-ing:
Sound Rating: STC/MTC not less than 65/61; Riverbanks Acoustical
Laboratories Test No. TL-87-143.
Fire-Resistance Rating: 3 hour minimum, ASTM E 119, UL Design
No. U455.
OMIT BELOW DESCRIPTION IF PARTITION IS
ADEQUATELY DETAILED ON DRAWINGS. SEE
DRAWING COORDINATION SHEETS. EDIT CAREFULLY
TO AVOID CONFLICTING PERFORMANCE AND
DESCRIPTIVE REQUIREMENTS.
Description: Construct partition as follows:

Wall Thickness: 9-1/2 inches.Studs: 6 inches deep.
wall board, and around panel perimeter.
Wall Panels: 3 layers 1/2 inch thick on each side of
partition.
Insulation: 5 inches thick.
DEFINITIONS
STC/MTC: S
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:35 PM   #16
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Hello Anti-wingnut:
I will look into it tomorrow morning, I do appreciate the info. I was looking for what you are telling me; it make sense if you get a heavier deeper stud it should be better but this guys won't buckle. If I can get in the plan and is in the book with the UL# they Have to accept it.
Thank you again.
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:44 PM   #17
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,085
Rewards Points: 1,370

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


He has to buckle, it is right there in the gypsum association's UL fire-rated assembly book. Buy a hard copy of the book if you need to.
Anti-wingnut is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:54 PM   #18
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Great I already downloaded the manual. Here is what you talked about.
GA-600-2009 FIRE RESISTANCE DESIGN MANUAL 9

14. Metal studs and runners are nominal 25 gage
unless otherwise specified.
15. Greater stud sizes (depths) shall be permitted to be
used in metal- or wood-stud systems. Metal studs of
heavier gage than those tested shall be permitted.
The assigned rating of any load-bearing system
shall also apply to the same system when used as a
nonload-bearing system. Indicated stud spacings
are maximums.
Thanks again, in a place where logic works THIS WOULD WORK !!!
I will let you know if works here will take me probably a month.
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:58 PM   #19
New Guy
 
GCinmiami's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 12

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


A month to get the plan changes with info and this expedited it to through the city.
GCinmiami is offline  
Old 12-03-2009, 08:08 PM   #20
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,085
Rewards Points: 1,370

Re: UL 3 Hour Fire Rated Partition


Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinmiami View Post
Great I already downloaded the manual. Here is what you talked about.
GA-600-2009 FIRE RESISTANCE DESIGN MANUAL 9

14. Metal studs and runners are nominal 25 gage
unless otherwise specified.
15. Greater stud sizes (depths) shall be permitted to be
used in metal- or wood-stud systems. Metal studs of
heavier gage than those tested shall be permitted.
The assigned rating of any load-bearing system
shall also apply to the same system when used as a
nonload-bearing system. Indicated stud spacings
are maximums.
Thanks again, in a place where logic works THIS WOULD WORK !!!
I will let you know if works here will take me probably a month.
This is so utterly utterly rudimentary for any architect, it begs the question of why he can't do it. Come on, level with us; are you really a GC, and is there really a architect involved with this project? Somehow I feel that some major professional corners are being cut on this project

Anti-wingnut is offline  

Tags
drywall, fire code, fire walls, partitions, ul rated drywall


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Code Coming dayspring Business 33 10-04-2008 05:08 PM
09 fire sprinklers for single family. K2 General Discussion 16 09-28-2008 08:40 PM
One hour fire seperation baccel Commercial Construction 7 09-28-2007 11:27 PM
Top mounted hangers against fire rated plywood, do studs and joists need to line up? personalt Carpentry 2 08-20-2006 03:24 PM
fire rated walls toastermaker Electrical 11 01-14-2006 12:41 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?