Subs And Illegals

Bodger

What can be done about sub-contractors who employ and bring undocumented illegals to the job site?
I'm a GC and I try to work as compliant as possible, I don't hire anyone who is not able to work legally in the U.S.A.
As I understand it, a GC who is the primary on a project is responsible to some extent for all the workers on the site, including those that might represent immigration violations if they are present and employed, even if they aren't directly employed by me, but work for someone who is contracted with me.

What can we do? How do you enforce this? Are we allowed to ask to see the documentation of all workers on the site even if they are employed by a sub?
Is there some profiling aspect to this? In southern California, most of the undocumented workers would probably be Latinos. If one guy looks and talks like he just got here from Indiana, and another looks and talks like he just got here from El Salvador and I only ask for docs on the Latino dude, is there some sort of civil liberites horsecrap to worry about?

I feel I am overrun with illegals on my sites, and I don't like it. I don't like contributing to the problem of illegals working in this country and I don't like feeling as though I'm forcing my clients to do the same with the money they pay me that ultimately ends up in the hands of people who aren't here legally to begin with and have no right to work here.
Any advice would be appreciated

drywallr41

I would ask your firms counsel or your "Boss" to see what they have to say about it. We have the same problems here also.

rotarex

Dude if your site is over run by them, Please Please send em here, ill send you northamerican bread to work fully legal for you, and you will end up like the big 3

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SLSTech

The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia - correct me if I am wrong but cant they all show you a Drivers License, which they can receive from the State without ever showing citizenship, right? They are not required to have anything else on them unless they are here legally & that would be a green card. FYI - unless you are in law enforcement, or are hiring the individual, you can't ask for proof of citizenship.

INS got in trouble quite a few years back for Racial Profiling - that is why we all must stop now at the check points & asked " are you a citizen?, etc..."

FYI - just because a guy sounds like he is from Indiana, does not mean that he is here legally either.

I only see 3 options for you at the moment --- Become friends with an INS guy & invite him down to the job site to go out to lunch with you. (watching them scurry is hilarious - I saw an entire landscape crew of about 25 disappear when an INS agent made a turn around in a new construction development in AZ) Require all employees, subs, & employees of subs to wear a card issued by your company identifying them - check with your lawyer for what info you can ask for. The third option - is hiring a security guard to verify ID and check off names aginst a list provided by the subs of individuals working on said property (Do you really wan't to have everyone coming to you, or your lead carpenter?)

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GregS

Can you not have it written into your contracts that you will not allow illegal immigrants onto the site and that you will be policing such? Non-compliance results in immediate termination of contract with penalties, etc..

Cdat

They can alays bring 'em in on a greencard. There are actually very large (Toyota) companies bringing in Eastern European workers from their factories over there to work in US factories, legally. Slave labor and we allow it. Get used to it. Unless the law is changed, you have no right.

BKFranks

Remember when Walmart got sued for hiring sub contractors who hired illegals? Walmart is the one who got in trouble.

As for California, illegals are everywhere here. The government doesn't do any enforcement of single home residential construction sites so I doubt that your would get caught anyway. I'd say just do the best you can.

I was doing work for this big company called MRC doing commercial work, they hired so many illegals they called it "mexican remodeling company". This was not an assumption, these guys told me most of them were illegal. All anyone can do is report, but the government just looks the other way.

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mickeyco

Get a magnet with ICE logo on it, put it on a sedan, pull up to the site, you'll know exactly who the illegals are, they'll run away like cockroaches when the lights are turned on.






.

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Mike Finley

You have every right to demand proof from your subs of anything you want, just make it across the board and you won't get into trouble.

I see no way you would get into trouble if as part of the process of being awarded a job the sub had to submit to you his employee's I-9s ( proof of eligibility of employement). He's already submitting to you a certificate of insurance naming you additionally insured and proof of workman's comp aren't they?

Bodger

I do get the WC certs and the additional insured from all subs. And I always inform the subs that I do not allow illegals to perform work on my job sites. Of course, that is regarded as a joke, because the assumption is that if the federal, state and local governments can't or won't enforce the immigration laws, how the hell can I ever hope to. And of course, I get the same argument every time from subs (many of whom are licensed insured LEGAL immigrants): "You'll pay twice as much if I have to use all legal employees."

If I ask for the I-9's, I'm sure I would get some version of that document, but I doubt they would match the actual guys working at the site.
I feel like it's just out of control now, has been for years, and there's nothing that can be done. I know other GC's in So Ca that feel the same way, but agree that if we actually tried to stick to our guns on this issue, we'd never get any work performed.
Hell, the LAPD has to adhere to "Special Order 40", a law passed in 1979 by the city council that states:

Officers shall not initiate police action with the objective of discovering the alien status of a person
Officers shall not arrest nor book persons for violation of Title 8, Section 1325 of the United States Immigration Code (Illegal Entry).

Sounds like the city is providing sanctuary to me. And there have been a few cops over the years that have found themselves in real trouble over that one so the rank and file officers in LA won't flirt with that line.

That's how the convicted murderers and rapists that have fled Mexico can stand around at Home Depot waiting to be hired and not worry about the cops stopping tham and asking them for ID. One cop told me that if they detain a guy that has no ID and is probably here illegally, that's a whole shift just trying to process the guy and get an ICE officer to take over, AND they risk violating Special Order 40 in the bargain.

My work car which I use when I don't need my truck is a Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor that I bought at auction. It had been a detective's car in the Oxnard P.D. All white, with the push bars and the spotlights and the antennas still intact. Sometimes when I roll up to a job site in that thing I can see some of the mexos try to fade into the landscape. Good way to see who's wet and who's not. Or who cares and who doesn't maybe.

I don't think there's a damn thing anyone can do and it isn't going to change. probably only get worse after the inauguration.
Thanks for the responses.

Bodger

Point taken.
MY point was that if there is a white guy on the site who speaks English and sounds like he's from the midwestern portion of the U.S.A., and a Latino individual who speaks broken English with a thick accent, and I only ask the Latino for proof of legal status, does that somehow entangle me in a profiling issue.

This thread is going to get moved to politics and religion any minute now.
My apologies in advance to the moderators.

Mike Finley

I'm sure we aren't helping your out any. Colorado has enacted some nice laws that are pissing off all the imigration activists (IE illegal alien activists) and they are leaving our state probably heading to California. Arizona probably isn't helping you out much either with their new laws.

Be a nice thing for the California NARI, home builders association, NKBA and other guys like that to lobby the local state governments to get strickter laws to reduce the loopholes for illegals.

Bodger

Stricter laws would be great, and yes, it's been reported that the tightening up that CO and AZ are doing is making CA look like even more of an inviting sanctuary. This state is bankrupt, we can't even pay out teachers, but God forbid we start talking about deporting the group that exacerbates the situation the most.

The problem here is that we have so many Latinos in political positions, and so many liberal politically correct pin-heads. They try to make anything having to do with illegal immigration into racism.
We've had demonstrations where a whole city park was full of illegal Latinos, and when the cops busted a few heads, THEY were the ones that got indicted. No arrests or detentions were made by any ICE agents that I know of.

So, considering that, it seems like a lost cause to try to get the damned illegals off my job sites and have the wages be paid to people who have obtained the right to work in this country.

Where I grew up, if an illegal alien had stood on a corner outside a lumber yard, they wouldn't have been there five minutes before they would have been behind bars and bound for deportation back to where ever the hell they came from.
That's why I'm a fan of Joe Arpaio, Maricopa County Sherriff in AZ.

BigoWhiteboy

Bodger, I like to see a GC who does not like to hire illegals. As a sub in southeast georgia our area has been inundated in the last few years with illegals. Most of the local GC's seem to love it as they can use it to knock our prices down, or get work done for dirt cheap. Quality does not matter to them I suppose. I would love to see more GC's think about the broader issue of illegal immigration and not just "price control". Sure most illegals are good workers, but I promise you my crew and I are faster and the quality of our work is a million times better. They got nothin on us american boys.

Bodger

True that Bigo. And I know plenty of GC's who don't care about the legal status of employees working their sites, many of them hire undocumented aliens themselves. It's just out of control, and I see the quality of work declining and the quality of tradesmen going the same direction.

Personally, I'm drawing the line on a lot of what I am seeing that is illegal and also sloppy, but still becoming accepted common practice in my area for the standard way of doing construction. Too many people think that bidding the job, and then sending just anyone out to do the work is all that is required.
Can't read a plan? No problem, make the GC walk you through it every step of the way so no mistakes occur. Don't want to clean up? Leave it, the GC will take care of it, and the list goes on.

thelodges

So correct me if I Am wrong here but it sounds like you are completely aware that there are illegals on your site and you are completely aware that your subs are using illegals, but the cost would be twice as much if they had to use a fully legal crew ( in their words).

So fire your subs and kick them off the jobsite even if it costs you twice as much. I can't really follow your frustration at others for turning a blind eye and enforcement when you yourself are doing the same thing for your own expediency. Your jobs WILL cost more, your production may go down as you seek subs that obey the law and hire only legal workers. Take control of your jobs and jobsite and stop making excuses and blaming the problem on others or expecting the problem to go away.

How will the problem get better or worse with the next administration if you are unwilling to tell the subs to hire only legals even if it costs more or if it hurts your bottom line. Demand the I-9's and do whatever you can to verify that they match. Be proactive...It sounds to me like you don't do anymore to enforce the law on your jobsite, than the government does to enforce the law within its boundaries. Government can't solve all your problems, its your jobsite and you know what is going on. Step up and set the example, then you can bitch.

Bodger

"It sounds to you like...." No sh!t Sherlock, I stated in the OP that I'm overrun with illegals and the point is I'm asking opinions on what can be done about it, how it can be enforced.
That IS pro-active, did you read the OP?
That's exactly what I'm trying to do, enforce the law, and have been doing, and it isn't working. I can demand I-9's, I can take the assurance from the subs that they are only using legal labor. I'm not sure how to enforce this on my sites. Ask for ID? Fingerprinting?
Do you have an opinion or advice on how to strictly enforce a rule that no illegals earn on the project?
By the way. all of my employees are legals. And they cost more than I could get an illegal alien for.

Nice FIRST POST pal, how about an introduction, or did you just show up to argue?

SLSTech

OK your flat out wrong - now if you are a legitimate "Painting Contractor" welcome, go post an introduction, put your location in your profile, & learn how to read

If you are just a flamer - go your silly

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JamesNLA

LOL....you're expecting an administration to actually do something? Funny.

I honestly think most people around the country have no clue how bad it is here. It sorta like the Blob....slowley taking over everything. There are power in numbers. The amount of most mexicans and el salvadorins here is astonishing. I can tell you first hand you will be hard pressed to NOT find illegals on jobs in SoCal. It's is beyond controlable and the only way to get rid of them is a depression where there is no work for them...they will go home. New enforcment needs to be created before they return to a recovering economey. The government really doesn't care about it's legel citizens. They care more about letting as many forigners in as possible. They say that's what makes america great......Come to SoCal and try and earn a living with anything that can breath and ****. I don't understand why the government won't help it's citizens in stopping the inrush of all the mexicans. They are doing the jobs americans would do, but they are doing it for pennies. That is not a free economic stimulas that is a disaster. There is nolonger a fair free market and the ripple effect is huge. I don't know the soultion but it really doesn't seem like anyone with the authority to do something about it gives a chit. I educate my clients on them. I actually had one lady I was getting ready to sign a contract with. She asked if I would be doing the work or a 4 foot tall mexican. I busted out laughing. She told me she had been ripped off by them before. Bottom of the barrel.

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BKFranks

Here's what you can do...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1391943289827740318