Should I Jump Ship??

theworx

Hey guys, I've been viewing the forum for a while now but this is my first post. Many of you have put forward lots of great information (especially in the area of being self employed). I've seen many posts proclaiming that being self employed is the way to go. What I need advice on is if I should start on my own or not. Your opinions will be greatly valued.
A little history first. Went through University (or as you call it in the states college). Got my degree in Management (basically business studies). Worked in retail as a manager and after that behind a desk. Hated both work situations. During my time in a suit I was also doing many evening jobs doing small home fix ups for friends and relatives (skills I learned and seemed to have a natural talent for after fixing up my first house). After I got out of the "Rat Race", I started my own company doing drywall, taping, painting, basic carpentry, etc.. My only problem was that I was clueless on what to charge. We didn't have forums on the net back then to get info. In fact we didn't even have the net, LOL. Made a living for the most part, but lost my shirt on a couple of big jobs. I ended up folding that company, went back to school and got my carpentry ticket (passed with straight A's by the way). Started work for a general contractor doing commercial work (offices, retail outlets in malls etc...). I've now learned the skills of steel framing, rounded bulkheads, suspended ceilings, and lots of very fancy millwork - you know designers). We lost our sales person/estimator about a year ago to a bigger company. Since then I've been scoping out, estimating, and running the job sites for my employer. The only problem is, we've been totally dead as far as work for four months now (remember we don't have a sales person). I've mostly been making my living from side jobs for the last 4 months.
My phone rings three or four times a day from people that have seen my work at the side jobs I mentioned earlier. And now, after helping my boss do his estimates, I have a much better handle on how to quote work. I have an incredible customer base to start from. I guess, what I really want to know is, is it really worth all the hassels of dealing with customers, doing your books, sales, estimating, etc.. Instead of just working for someone and getting your pay every two weeks (consider I've been slow, and pay day has sucked for about four months now).. Should I attempt it???
Your responses will be valued. Thanx!!!

AAPaint

Why not? If it's slow and you're doing estimates, are you selling a lot of them? Is your closing percentage any good, or are they just not generating enough leads? It seems you do fine generating work on your own, and I think you'll be surprised how far your good name can carry you....it allready has for four months! It's a big step to go it on your own...I would take a little time to take a serious look at your bosses business model, especially if it's starting to slack off.

For the biggest question...is it all worth it? Umm....yeah, but I have a problem with authority so working for myself works out good!

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-AAPaint

AA Quality Painting & Pressure Washing LLC
Jacksonville Painters
Jacksonville, FL.

Glasshousebltr

Worx, it all boils down to the type of personality you sport, some people are cut out for looking for boats or planes and others for bailing the dingy. Whatever your make it's a big sea and the frickin sharks are everywhere. Good luck and don't be afraid to eat a shark or two.

Bob

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Bob

Mike Finley

It should be a pretty easy decision for you. You've done it once before and failed. Did you learn from your mistakes? Sounds like you dodged the bullet the first time, will you be lucky if it goes south again for a second time, will you walk away unscathed? Do some honest evaluating, not everybody is cut out to be a chief, there is nothing wrong with being the best indian you can be.

AHS

This is good advice. I would look at your current boss as well. Is he a good leader, someone you can depend on to provide you a good job for years to come.

ATS

My opinion on this is you have to know right away if being self-employed is for you. I've known this my entire life, since my first job as a teenager that I wanted to call the shots and take the gambles. It's always been in me. Never a question.

JustaFramer

Sage advise

K2

Working for yourself means you get to work "half days" and you get to choose which 12 hours you want to work. (I heard that today and had to throw that in).<p>

It would be better if you were telling us instead of asking us but i've always had the same kind of doubts and managed to make a respectable living so far. It seems that people who are totally focused, totally driven, totally without doubt have an easier time at it but lately i've found that these types of people might have a different set of problems that I wouldn't want. <P>

If you were to ask advice from guy who made a respectable living, I would say ask your questions, make your descisions, put your blinders on and go like ell. If you can find a spouse that can help and encourage you when you start to have a few doubts that would be a big ++. Cash flow issues are the biggest mud holes and you need to have someone cheering you on. <P>

Good luck. I hope you let us know how you make out. RT.

DecksEtc

No offense but I don't necessarily agree. You say it's your "opinion" so I wouldn't think to say your "wrong" but I would like to offer a different opinion. I spent over 18 years in an office environment and learned my carpentry skills by being taught by my Dad while growing up, learning and making my own mistakes and later on from my now ex-wife's father. A couple of occurrences of losing my office jobs due to re-organizations got me tired of working for others and depending on large corporations for job security. Starting my business on a part-time basis prior to leaving my last office job (similar to what theworx is doing now) and therefore being ready to go full-time prompted me to take the plunge and give it a go full time on my own. I decided that I wanted to control my own fate and control everything within my power.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of stresses that go along with running your own business but it is the kind of stress that I can control. I've never been happier than I am now being my own boss. My family and friends can see it in my face and tell me so quite often. I get out of bed every morning raring to go with a smile on my face - something that never happened when I had to go to the office jobs.

Pearce Services

If you take the plunge.......

I would expect that your current boss is equally stressed about not keeping you busy. If handled properly, you can turn the situation into a positive one for your boss, and keep him as a future resource.

Why not offer to your boss the opportunity to convert you to a Sub-contractor for him. This would save him money, and you would still have him to fall back on for future work.

If you do not take the plunge right now.....

Register a business name with the town, get a checking account, and start running your side work through your business. When you ever do go on your own, you will have a track record which will help with getting insurance. And the longer you are on record the sooner you can qualify for certain types of projects. This will also allow you to accummulate tools tax free so you are more prepared when you do make a move.

A+Carpenter

Running your own company has its perks . Like shark fishing !

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theworx

I guess after my previous failure on my own, I'm feeling a little timid about trying it again. I was looking for a little backing from others in the business to help me lift up my confidence to go on my own. For the most part, all of you have. I especially liked the comment about subbing to my current employer (who thinks the world of me - I did everything I could to keep him and our clients happy). There was a little bit of a guilty feeling playing in on my decision. My boss has kept me pretty busy for many years and I would not like to leave him hanging. But, if he doesn't have the steady work and would hire me as a sub to complete the few jobs he is landing, I think that would be a great deal (for both of us).
Just got back from a meeting with a guy who has 8 rental properties who wants to renovate and put them on the market. He's tired of trying to collect rent and all the other crap that goes along with it. He's got 2 that have been vacant for 6 months. Right now I'm renting a suite for $700 a month. We talked about the possibilty of me living in one of those homes rent free as long as I worked on his other properties. You have to consider, I live in Canada and he's paying a bunch to heat these places. We're talking complete reno's (from patching and paint and flooring on the interior, to roofs and new siding on the exterior). All of which I do. This work could last me until next summer. So this new news only adds to my reasons to go it my self. And in the back of my head I was thinking that house I live in, I would try to make a deal for him to take on the mortgage and I'll renovate that one for myself. He's got money and I'm sure he'd be into that. It would be a hell of a lot better than renting.
Anyways, thanks again for your posts. Most of them helped me to make a decision which I really knew the answer to to begin with. Like I said, I was timid after failing once but I think I have a much better handle on what I have to do now. A lot of of that has to do do with you guys (just reading the previous posts about starting on your own and the business in general).
Thanx Again,
The Worx..

Mike Finley

Let me throw another wet blanket on you. Please keep in mind, not trying to be all negative, just make sure you see the entire picture...

As already said "Not everybody is cut out to be a chief, there is nothing wrong with being the best indian you can be."

Have you done some really hard and honest evaluating as to why you failed the first time? Do you have an actual plan in place that will not allow you to make those same mistakes again. More importantly do you know exactly what those mistakes were? Can you and more importantly will you overcome these issues this time? Anybody can have a "great customer base to start from" if they got those customers because they were delivering twice the job than they were charging for. Running a company customers need to be charged an honest days work = an honest days pay + 15% profit. Those higher overheads being a company instead of picking up side work won't go away but will be what drives you out of business again, or even worse the business owner discovers that all he has done is gotten a new 'job' doing what he did before. The only difference is who is boss is and he is now taking on huge risks for the same rewards as he had before.

In going out on your own are you going to have a business or just another job? If you are just going to be getting by but the difference is the customer is telling you what to do instead of your current boss? Well, I think you are taking on a huge chunk of risk for no more reward. By the way, business is based on risk/reward, that is the purpose of being in it. You take on much greater risk being in business for yourself so the rewards are supposed to be much higher than just being an employee.

Finally test yourself with this question : Tommorrow, if you were suddenly offered a great job as an employee at another company with stability and great pay would you turn it down and still go into business for yourself? If you would take the job I would caution you to think about what the really means.

Don't get caught up in the "I must work for myself or I'm a sucker" mentality. Unless you see owning your own company as a great adventure, full of grief, stress and pitfalls, but wouldn't have it anyother way...

...having reluctance and needing others to reasure you is a big warning sign to me that you are simply reaching for an alternative that is the lesser of two evils of what you are facing now with your current position.

theworx

Thanx for your input Mike. It actually made me take a couple of days to think about what you've said. The truth is I could go out tommorow and get a job as a taper making $38.00 an hour, or a boarder making about the same, our market here is allowing that kind of pay. But after working for a GC for the last 10 years doing all commercial work, I would be bored doing one trade. I'm a carpenter but am skilled enough in the other trades that I could land a job with ease. But I don't want to be stuck just doing one thing (especially after doing the variety of work I've done for the last 10 years). And I don't think I could find another GC who would have a similar deal to what I've had with my current employer. Almost all sub out everything. Where as we've done alot in house (except for plumbing, Hvac, and electrical). We leave that to the pros.

The reason I failed in the past was lack of experience and information. Like I stated, I made a good living for the most part but, made a couple quoting mistakes on a couple of very large jobs (which I should never have even considered doing). I was young and not very experienced, and tried to get too big for my britches. For example, gave a quote on doing the complete interior of a 4300 sqr ft house (from insulation, boarding, taping, painting, and finish carpentry). The only 8' ceilings were in two bathrooms. All the rest of the ceilings were 16', 18', 20', etc... Not knowing what to charge, I doubled my rate per sqr ft. No where near enough considering all the scaffold work. Lost my shirt... On all of the smaller jobs, made out just fine (and was high bid on many but because of my personality and reputation I still landed the job).

After folding my first company I've got my ticket and been working for a GC and have been helping with estimating and running job sites for them. This has gained me much more knowledge about what to charge, especially on stuff like high work requiring scaffolds etc... Like mentioned in my earlier posts, I have a much better handle on what to charge now. As far as my insecurity, what bigger step is there than a career change (except for maybe deciding on a life partner). So if I seem a little scared to take the plunge, forgive me. I'm now 38 and I do like the job security working for someone else but, I think I can make it work on my own again. I don't see anything wrong in getting some backing from your fellow trades people who are successful to give me a boost in confidence. By the way, where I'm from being an Indian is not a good thing (I'd rather be a cowboy)!!!

DecksEtc

Isn't that the truth! When I was 17, I spent the summer just outside Winnipeg and had a job landscaping (we built and sodded the Pope slope in Bird's Hill Park). Well I got such a dark tan after a couple weeks that I switched from drinking Labatt's Blue. Nothing worse than having a dark tan and drinking Blue - I would have just been asking for trouble!

Good luck with your decision worx!

Mike Finley

Like I said, I didn't want to come across as a wet blanket on your parade.

It sounds like you have addressed your privious attempt and know what happened and have grown in experience enough that you won't be making those mistakes again. That's certainly a good thing a big piece of the puzzle.

As far as being nervous about taking the plunge, hey nothing is forever, you can always go back. You sound really sensible and taking your time and getting lots of perspectives is a really admirable trait and I'm sure is only going to help you this time around. Good luck with your decision which ever way you end up.

theworx

Terry, you're lucky you didn't end up wandering around downtown Winnipeg with a rag held to your face. Actually a pretty sad situation here. By the way, nice Pope Slope...

theworx

Thanx Mike. Checked out you web site, well done. Very professional and well put together. Did you do it yourself or did someone do it fot you???

theworx

Just a pic of the house that brought me down in my first effort at being on my own.. How would you quote a living room 60' long x 30' wide by 28' high (the high side of the vaulted ceiling)? And the whole house was like this. I lost my shirt (and gotch) but he still got top quality finish. Oh well, live and learn.

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Hey Ceiling Guy

You seem qualified and seem to have fixed your problem of not knowing what to charge, now that you have estimate experience. T&M makes it easier and less risky. What are you waiting for? Go for it!