Seeking Career Advice

Aspiring GC

Hello everyone, I'm new to these forums and I really appreciate your taking the time to look at my post and wanted thank you in advance for any advice you may have for me!

I am currently working as a framer/hanger for a GC who works exclusively on commercial renovations and upfits. I am very eager to move to the next stage of my career but I'm unsure of how to proceed. I know that eventually I want to be a General Contractor, however, I also know that I am not prepared to take that step yet, I know I have a lot to learn first.

I was thinking the next logical step for me would be an Assistant Project Manager or Project Manager Trainee postition. Unfortunately, every job listing that I have come across has had a requirement of an advanced Degree in Construction Science or Construction Management. I do have a four year degree from a major University but as luck would have it, my degree is in an unrelated field.

Do you think the Project Management route is the next logical step for me, if so do you have any suggestions for landing a job in that field w/o having the proper Degree? Are there any companies that you know of that will train Project Managers?

I apologize that this post kinda rambled on, but, I truly truly appreciate any guidance you guys may have for me!

Thx again!

Aspiring GC

Ok guys, it's been 12 hours and 23 of you have viewed my question without leaving a response.

I'm not looking for divine guidance or anything, I'm just hoping for your ideas and thoughts, as brief or as detailed as they may be. Please respond, I really look forward to hearing from you and thanks again!

mastertrimmer

Are looking to stay on the commercial end or residential?

jmic

Aspiring you do know that you're trying to get into a field that many people who are in it are getting laid off from lack of business. Your timing is just off. Maybe stay where you are and take some courses that will help you land a job when things turn around.

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Joe

Aspiring GC

Thanks for the reply Mastertrimmer!

The commercial side is all I know right now and with the current downturn in the residential market it seems to be my better option. With that said, I don't really have a preference, I just want to start learning the processes behind Contracting (estimating, take-offs, bidding etc).

Aspiring GC

Thanks Jmic,

I agree it's a tough market out there now, especially on the residential side. However, when I look through monster, hot jobs etc, there are tons of jobs for Project Managers in my area. I'm from the southeast (South Carolina) and we are expecting massive growth over the next two decades or so.

All of the job listings I have seen though, require a degree and OTJ experience as a Project Manager.

It's the old adage "You can't get a job w/o experience and you can't get experience w/o a job"

mastertrimmer

I do all custom residential, don't know the commercial side, I would guess the process is similar?? I know the state of the economy is not good for us residential guys, commercial is still running good from what I hear. Why don't you find some investors and do a small office/strip mall?

Aspiring GC

I would love to do that MT but I really wouldn't know where to begin. I haven't so much as done a take-off or pulled a permit. Do you think pulling something like that off is possible by a complete novice?

mastertrimmer

Start asking question to different trades on the job, free advice is worth a lot of $$$$ Don't become annoying though. Thats how I learned some of the ins and outs of building homes, again commercial is not my pint of lager, hopefully some commercial guys will post.

My co. does mainly finish carpentry, but learning the ins and out of how a project is run helps my other co. do GC work.

Remember its not going to happen overnight...the padawon learner will soon become a jedi master

Jason Whipple

Going from Framer to assistant PM really isn't the next logical step if you don't have a degree.

If you're going to work your way to upper management the steps are more like this;

Carpenter, Foreman (lead Carpenter), Superintendent, and finally Project Manager. There could be assistant super and pm jobs along that journey as well. Just know that it could take something like 15 to 20 years before you reach your goal to become a Project Manager choosing this plan of attack.

There are a lot of good on line schools that you could go to and get your associates degree. Take Business as your Major. They will teach you a lot of what you need to know about how to run a business and even project management. Even if it takes you 3 years to get the degree it should cut off about 5-6 years of reaching your goals. At the least it will give you a different prospective of what it takes to run a business and give you a better chance of survival if you decide to go it on your own. You won't learn a dam thing about business when swinging a hammer or reading blue prints or scheduling sub meetings.

Take it from someone who took the hard way.

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Aspiring GC

Thanks Jason,

I am quickly realizing that I need a degree in Construction Science and I am very seriously considering the online Masters Degree in Construction Science and Management from Clemson University (even though I'm a Gamecock at heart).

Even with that degree (which takes two years to earn) I would still be lacking in the experience department. Ideally, I could find a job as an assistant or trainee while earning my masters, that way by the time I earn the degree I'll have two years of management experience to offer as well.

Are there any companies that offer training anymore?

Jason Whipple

Most large Commercial General Contractors will offer some kind of asistance with tuition when you've made the grade. Smaller GC's or Sub's really don't from what I've seen.

I hate to say "you can't get there from here", but my experience was really frustrating when I was trying to make the leap from field to office. I would get pretty pissed off when an pimply face college grad came into the office with absolutely NO clue about how things work on a construction site. That position of Project Manager is far more than that. It's about business and there are MANY hats to wear in that position. Seems it is easier to teach a college kid about field support than it is to teach a field guy about business. You will be overlooked for that position more than you want to know without a degree.

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mastertrimmer

I agree with Jason, I've seen a lot of talented pro's out there that can't run a business. Keep working in the field and study business if you can. Do small projects if you can, all lot of us here learned by trial and error.

chris klee

you could try to find an asst superintendent position. they usually dont require a degree

P.J.

I don't kow if Clemson's on line program offers it but alot of GCs have intern opportunities for students in building science programs. That way you will learn all the science at school and then you can learn how a GC actually does things while doing your internship. I would start checking the GC websites under the career opportunities links around where you live and see if they have intern positions.

buildpinnacle

PJ is right. I recieved my degree in Construction Management Technology from Oklahoma State. We had the opportunity to intern with several different companies each summer. In fact, all the big boys and a few smaller companies actually came and did interviews for internships each year. If you were good and they like you, an offer usuallly followed. There were a few instances where a Junior may actually sign on with a company and they would finish paying for their last two years of school. You had to work all breaks with them and summers and sign a contract to go to work with them upon graduation. Very similar to nursing in that aspect. We had several people going to school in our program who were field personell for local companies going to school a few hours a semester to get their degree and move up or move on the ladder.

I have also noticed that a lot of tech schools (Devry, etc) are offering the Construction Science program. These will generally be more geared towards you as the classes can be taken online or at night.

Another option is, as mentioned, try to get an asst super postion or field engineer. Field engineers for large firms generally do the lay-out on a the project, etc. Across the board, large construction projects are down so companies probably aren't hiring in the frenzy they were when I came out. Get on the phone and start calling people.

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renet2

Keep educating yourself. Look in areas that might be hiring (if there are any). Let the employer place you where you will be most beneficial. i.e.: be flexable and take any job they will give you - till a better one comes along or until they can promote you from within.

If you are a high quality individual and show your loyalty to the ownership this will certainly increase your chance of success. Be a servant. Last but not least - become their friends. Don't underestimate how much is done in this world based on friendships and trust.

Someone may come to the employer with "tons" of experience but the employer does not know their character.

On the other hand someone may come with a decent amount of experience - may not have all the degrees and so forth (and degrees may not be required) but the employer may know this individual and know he / she is most trustworthy and is full of good character. If you were the employer who might you choose?

Keep in mind: some employers put "degree required" in the ad as a filter. Don't be too shy to bypass the filter and get your qualifications in front of them. They may actually be more impressed by your "initiative" to not stop at the "degree required" door. A closed door did not stop you - you went around it and got in front of the people that mattered. Perhaps the job will requires dealing with city planners, commissioners, architects, multiple layers of bureaucrats and so forth and it will require much persistence and patience to complete the project and deal with these obstacles. The employer may see you as an individual who finds creative ways to break down obstacles to get the city planners to see things your way.

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ArtKit

IMHO.... you defiantly don't need a college degree to get your career started, no degree will give you the hands on experience a good contractor is looking for. Furthermore you need to stay put in their company that your with, and slowly work your way up, but in the mean time always keep your eyes and ears open for better positions elsewhere. Leaving your current job to start going to school and hunting for a new job isn't the best idea... GOOD LUCK!

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Warren66

Project management well first off these are the guys that see the job gets finished on time most of the time they are clue less when it comes to what it takes to do the job. Now as for the General contracting side you need to learn all aspects of the of the layout and building this includes having some knowledge of all trades involved in the construction of the building but you main areas are in the layout of say the grade beam the parking lot the piles how big the building is determines the size of your piles for eg;. you need to know your take offs problem solving and sometimes knowing when and when not to pull the trigger on a change whether the go ahead is given or not. What you will need the most is just plain old hands on experience. I have been doing commercial construction for 20 years and I am just now being seriously for the position of GC. then some guys get in sooner cause they know how to BS their way into the position I can't tell you how many of these dummies I have run into over the years anyway Lot's of luck with what ever you decide.