Saw Cuts/joints

Viper

We are doing our first indoor swimming pool install and our concrete sub is not going to put joints in the slab? He does on all our outside pool decks but says they are not needed for this indoor slab.
He always has done good work for us so I thought I'd ask here before questioning him as I feel they may be needed.

We do all the prep and he just does the pour.
Details are:
Indoor pool deck ~5" thick
pea stone compacted as filled, covered with 2" ridgid foam and radiant heating tubes stapled on top.
2' x 2' #3 rebar grid on 2" chairs throughout the area
Fibermesh 150 at 1# per yd in mix.

mdshunk

I've seen plenty of indoor pool decks without control cuts. They leave expansion material around the perimeter of the room. Many tend to crack anyhow from each corner of the pool toward the corner of the room.

Tscarborough

Control joints are needed no matter where the concrete is poured.

Teetorbilt

25 yrs. ago I had a pool installed by an upstart company. They assured me that expansion joints were not required and I documented everything. The structure is monolithic with expanded decking, I was pretty sure that it would never take the stresses but it came with a warrantee.

I was by the old place a few months ago and nary a crack anywhere. I might add that this was not the 'el cheapo' pool in your Sunday fliers.

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IHI

I can relate to the theory, this is indoors so all things indoor are inside a permieter of footings already heance the "where's it gonna go" menality since there will be no frost movement to heave the ground and cause movement in the slab.

Really no different than a basement slab or a slab built home for that matter, it's surrounded by footings and should not be affected by ground movement.

But with theories on the side, like the old saying goes when dealing with concrete, only 2 things are really guarunteed:

1. It will get hard
2. It will crack

So with that real life mentality and both scenario's I guess you could make your own decsion, but like Teetor said, I would get some sort of written/documented warranty for an absurd amount of time since if/when it does start to crack, who's the guy they're gonna call?? YOU!! At least you will have a written guaruntee to go back on your sub with so your not the one eating the tear out and replacement costs should this customer get pickey and unhappy if/when the concrete decides to do what it does....you can lay a perfect foundation/bed for mud but it will always have a mind of it's own so there are really no guaruntee's placing the stuff, just over doing the best you can and hope it works out.

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JMG1959

Control Joints aren't worth a crap anyway. I very rarely see concrete brack at the shallow joints that most Subs put in. I'm leaning towards Redwood again.

Viper

Thanks for all the replies!

One thing I've always known is that the only guarantee about concrete is that it will crack and I always tell customers that. We just try and control where the cracks happen by using control joints. But that is still no guarantee they will not show up somewhere else.

From your replies and others I've spoken with recently, I'm assuming the cracks we would be talking about in "this application" would be hairline only.

I will discuss this with the homeowner, and let them choose joints or not, as small cracks may add character in an odd way to some people.

Tscarborough

JMG, redwood is used at expansion joints; cuts are used at control joints. You are correct in that if the joint is not cut deep enough it will not perform as expected, but do not confuse the 2.

415moto

i see cracks all the time in control joints. Outside of them as well, but they do work.