Retiring An Employee

WNYcarpenter

Here's a scenario....You charge $35 a man hour, you have an employee who makes $25+. You've been in business for 30 years and have had an employee with you for 20+yrs that has been through thick and thin. He can't physically do the work any more, resists taking a higher level position, and is set in his ways. He's a good manager but you have upcoming staff 10+yrs who can do his job, still work, accept innovation and make 2/3 his salary. This employee has dedicated the greater part of his life to you, but you know at some point you must bring in new blood....What do you do?

AbeBarker

Let's talk about your heart first?

dougchips

Close your business so you don't have to live with the thought of letting him go.

Ask George the painter, he is a good people person.

__________________
To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

GregS

Does he realize he cannot physically do the work anymore?

He's hourly? Salary?

Would you be lost without his supervisory skills?

liltrainerboy

thats a ****ty situation.... hes got to understand that if he cant do the job that the both of u need to find something he can do for the appropriate salary.. mayb sales or something....

Teetorbilt

You simply sit down with him and review. He knows. Maybe you can work out a deal for lower salary now and then bump it for the final 2 yrs. for his SS.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

WNYcarpenter

There's two ways to intepret this...

1st: I'm fine, The patners are 62, and 55 (I don't know about theirs). It's widely known and discussed amongst all the crews. The person in question is 45, has emphazema(sp?), and weighs 125 lbs. He's an excellent carpenter, but he won't try anything new. He won't pay into a 401K because he lost some money in the 80s. I doubt he has a computer, and if he does, he wouldn't understand what is meant by right click...I could go on...

2nd...honestly, I don't know if I'd have the heart to let him go. That's just it. Without a doubt someone else could do his job. There are three other foremen in there 30s (Xers) who've been with this company 10+ years who buy the newest tools, take advantage of resources like CT, and want to bring new life to an outdated system.

The company could simply fold without the heartache, or they could go on with new leadership and clean house. There isn't an easy answer. My personal opinion is that the owners see the problem but are holding out to let someone else deal with it by selling.

Mike Finley

If you are willing to keep him around, he's going to be dead weight on the company, figure out how much that is going to cost the company in both direct and indirect costs, consider the opportunity costs also. Add it up and offer some percentage of that number as a serverance package to this man and let him go.

That's more then fair all the way around.

Woz the Painter

Retire him and pay him 3 grand a month on pension, he made you ton's of money when he was productive? yes or no?

Zero Punch

QUOTE:
"an employee with you for 20+yrs that has been through thick and thin. He can't physically do the work any more, resists taking a higher level position, and is set in his ways."

Do you want to keep his expertise? Are you willing to let him go?
If you think he is still an asset and can contribute to the organization at a new position you need a sit down. Explain to him that your planning for the future and that you want him to be part of that future and part of that plan is to move up both junior members and the more experienced, him to positions of greater responsibility. This is his new job description if he does not accept it there is no other open position available. It is now in his court to stay or go.

mikesewell

A VERY sad situation.

It's fun to build things with your hands when you're young, but if you don't go to school, or educate yourself during your career, then construction will be a dead-end job for you. One permanent injury, and you can be out of business.

I see this happening to people every day. It's easy to see when you are looking at a guy in his 50s, but if you look around you, you will see that MOST young guys are following the SAME EXACT PATH.

Learn to make money with your HEAD too, not just your HANDS. Get an education before it's too late, the years go by very quickly...

__________________
Commercial construction

Sewell Construction

thom

Retire him? I like that. Geez, I "retire" guys all the time, though I thought the term was "fire".

Employment is a short term, not a long term committment. The deal is I pay you, you produce for me. This does not create an implied committment on the part of either the employee or the employer. Your obligation, legal and ethical, is to pay him for what he does. When he ceases to be productive you have no obligation to continue to carry him.

Put some perspective on it. If the company was losing money and could not afford to pay wages, would he continue to work?

As for the amount of $ the company has made off his labor, I doubt it's much. Clearly his current wages don't cover his costs even if he is productive. At the rate your billing, he was never making the company much money.

You say he's a great employee, BUT. Forget the but. He doesn't want to learn new things and become more productive. That's not a good work ethic, not a good attitude, not a good employee. Furthermore, the others employees resent him. Even if you don't see it, it's there. Here's a guy that get's paid more than they do, produces less than they do, has an attitude (I already know enough), has a more prestigeous job, and is carried by the company. This creates a diminished attitude and level of productivity throughout the company. He has ceased being a sail and has become an anchor.

Obviously he's a likeable guy. That's what makes it difficult. If he wasn't likeable but his productivity was better, you probably wouldn't have a problem firing him.

You say the employee has dedicated the better part of his life to you. You could say, the company has dedicated the better part of its life to him. There is no difference. Both sides made a living off the relationship.

Your business doesn't get to rest on it's laurels. It must prove every day by doing. What it did in the past is the past. What counts is what it does today. No different for an employee.

Retire (fire) him.

ModernStyle

And you wonder why you had trouble finding people to work for you untill you tapped in to the illegal alien workforce. You should move to Mexico and run for office, its all about you and your wallet right ?
You complain that the people today have no work ethic, maybe they just dont want to work too hard for a heartless swindler. Running a company isnt just about money, you make connections with the people you work with. If a guy working for me falls off a ladder and breaks his arm, I am at his house that night with a couple of bags of groceries and wanting to know if he needs any finacial help untill he gets back on his feet. I bet you are the type that if one of your guys falls of a ladder you are on the phone with your lawyer right away looking for a way to get out of paying his medical bills.
As far as they guy with the older loyal employee, talk to him about it, try and let him know how things need to be, let him know that you still need him. Maybe you need him now more then ever for his experience and leadersgip abilities, and even if it isnt 100% true it wouldnt hurt to stretch the truth a little. Make the guy feel like he still matters, people arent disposable. Take him out to a nice dinner or lunch and let him know how things are and give him time to think about things.

__________________
http://InDemandPainting.com http://www.SupermanOfPainting.com http://www.AplusPaintingServices.com

thom

Actually, I just hire sub contractors. I gave up hiring employees 10+ years ago. I don't have any trouble finding subs, they stop at my job sites looking for work. It's the subs who have trouble finding employees. And, yes, with my subs, its about business, not personal. I don't haggle on price, I pay as soon as I get a bill, and the subs want to work for me. They will fit me in because I treat them better than other GC's

And, what's this crap about an older employee? The post says he's 45 years old. I passed that many long years ago, without slowing. and without quitting learning new things.

Actually, as required by law, I provide workmens compensation. In my state that is a requirement of GC's who ever hire anyone, employee or sub. If the sub has his own, at audit time, I am credited. Their medical and wages are covered. In fact, I never worked a single day without WC. I had the policy prior to starting my first project (that was back in 1979).

As for a guy falling off a ladder... I actually did have a sub's employee fall off a second story roof and get injured on one of my projects a few months back. I called 911 and stood by. After he was taken to the hospital I called the ambulance service to find out which hospital so I could check on him. They could not tell me, it violates federal privacy laws. I called the local hospitals, they could not tell me if he was there, it violates the federal privacy laws. I called his employer several times. He told me when he came home from the hospital, nothing more, it violates the federal privacy laws.

But none of this is the issue. The issue is what is best for the company. Failure to provide for the company will, in time, result in the failure of the company and all employees being unemployed. In fact this was a consideration described in the original post. So, it seems you would terminate everyones employment because of a business failure rather than a single non-productive nice guy who is pulling the business down. I would say you are the heartless bastard, and, you don't have the stones to make the necessary decisions.

George Z

Such a thing, is called temporary help,
but there is regular employment as well.

They are both useful.

__________________
Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters
Painting Toronto Blog

George Z

Talk to him and see what this is all about.
It could just be burn-out.
I am sure he sees he is not producing for you as much as he used to.
Is there a job for him in the company with fewer demands?
Make sure he understands the pay implications of that.

You need to know what's up and he may just need a change of scenery.
He worked hard for you and you seem to appreciate that,
tell him that and maybe help him decide what he wants to do.

__________________
Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters
Painting Toronto Blog