Residential Footer

dutchlegacy

Hey folks,

I have a question about how you guys do your residential footers. In Holmes County, there is no real code when it comes to residential building, with the exception of the septic plan, so now that I am building a house for my wife and I, some questions about the footer/foundation have come up.

the common footer size here for residential is 8" deep, 16" wide. What is it where you folks biuld?

Also, the print calls for the garage floor to be a minimum of 4" lower than the living quarters to avoid dangerous exhaust gases from creeping into the house. My question is, do I drop the footer 8" and add a block to keep wall height the same, or do I not add a block and use longer studs in the non-common garage walls?

What would you guys do?

Some info for perspective:
foundation: 3 courses of 8" with 1 course of 4x4x16 solids around perimeter
finished floor: 100'
finished garage floor: 99'8"
top of living area frost footer: 97'8"
top of garage area frost footer: 97'4"

__________________


www.dutchlegacycompany.com

dlcj

There is no real code where we build most houses either (or should i say inspectors to inspec it) but we dig footings 12" deep and 24" wide and add 3 strands of #4 rebar 4" up from bottom on rebar chairs.Crossing and tieing at corners. I think we started doing that just cause our backhoe guy only had 1' and 2' buckets and 1' deep just sounds like a good number not to mention easy to figure concrete. I usually figure my crete at 26" wide cause the buckets teeth stick out a little. As for the garage we use longer studs, but our houses are allways on crawl space so the garage will be 3-4 steps down anyway with a 10- 12' ceiling.

wellbuilthome

In NY our footers have to be 42" below grade If i was building on slab I would dig down in the front of the garage to 42" deep 16" wide for 8" block Then i like to pour the footer up about 18 "in the trench and start blocking from there because it hard to lay block down in the hole so deep.If there where only 3 rows of block i would make the walls even on top for framing.On a slab i would use shoe block for the liveing space and 8x8x16 cap blocks in the garage area .The garage floor gets poured inside the block walls .Our footings are allways twice the size of the block 8" block 16" footer 10" block 20" footer I use a 20" footer most of the time because my track hoe has a 20" bucket. We run 2 5/8 rebar around the footer. My floor are 4" thick with 6x6 wire and a 6 mil plastic. Our wood has to be a min of 8" out of the ground .If you had a wood floor the blocks would be the same hight and the wall studs would be lounger in the garage. I would think its cold in ohio and your footers would need to be be deeper .

dlcj

I forgot to mention. Say the ground is level and the house has 4 rows the garage will have 1 or 2 rows ( depending on how high the drive will be) plus a row of form block. Then pour the garage floor and build on top of that. I just seems easier to me to pour the slab first. It also gives a nice clean and level place to work too. The wood will be more than 8" from ground and the outside is usually bricked up to the level of the house floor if not all the way up. Counting a floor thickness of about 1' there will be 3 or 4 steps down to garage floor.

I also think the frost line is a concern in your area. No such thing here.

concretemasonry

IEven if you do not have a code, look at the International Resisential Code (2006 IRC) for foundation construction. It is a good, reasonable prescriptive standard to use as a guide. It is unfortunate that you do not have a code official or inspector to lean on for advice.

As far as the depth to the bottom of the footings, call and advacent area to see what the requirements are there. Mother Nature is usually pretty consistant if you do not stry to far. If you have a choice, pick and area north of you since not being deep enough is major mistake that can cost a fortune to correct.

For footing size, 8" thick is usually adequate and reinforcement is not required in some places. Some people use a 12" thick footing. For width, the 8" footing should he 8" wider (4" on each side onf the wall) than the wall thickness. Around here, more contractors automatically use 20" wide since the foundation wall thickness could change or the footing layout may not be perfect when it comes to the walls. This makes it easier to give the wood butchers a squre place to start. All footings here are formed.

Here, most garages are built using higher (about 8" max) block stem walls so the slab can be a floating slab poured between the stem walls and can be poured later for drainage slopes and still have level foundation wall heights and keep the garage floor below the house floor. - It also makes for an easier to clean floor that will not cause the plate and studs to rot. Normal stud lengths (or more) are used to give more valuable headroom or a higher door.

__________________
Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

bobcaygeonjon

This makes it easier to give the wood butchers a squre place to start.

LOL now thats sticking it to em.

neolitic

We're only required to go 16"X8" deep
for up to two stories, no bars.
A mile of ice packed our clay
down pretty well.
I always dig with a 2' bucket though,
a little over kill and a little wiggle room.
I run the block level all around (usually)
and pour down 4" in the garage.
Stop the drywall at the bottom of the
sole plate, like concretemasonry says,
can hose it down and not hurt the d/w.
Haven't done a slab house in a coon's age,
so it winds up @15½" slab to subfloor.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

dlcj

my house is a slab house ( i did'nt build it) and has only 1 brick under door seals from house to carport and pourches. It looks very nice but i much much prefer a crawl space house.

dutchlegacy

I hear what you guys are saying. This is exactly what I had planned to do, but if I do that, I will not be below frost with the bottom of my footer around the perimeter of the garage.

The plan is 3 rows of 8" with a row of 4x4 solids to be the form for the slab for the living area. For the garage, I almost think I need to go 4 rows of 8", so I would have to drop the footer by 4" to keep a common foundation height. I have been thinking, and if I do this, my stud lengths will different anyway, because all the walls on the slab will be regular walls with ACQ bottom plate, studs, and double top plate. In the garage area, we will need a 2x8 ACQ sill plate, with the walls built on top of that, making the studs 1.5" shorter.

I'm thinking in circles here...I just want to make this as simple as possible for the framers. I wish I could put a drawing of this in here.

__________________


www.dutchlegacycompany.com

Brock

In Lubbock everything is 12" deep and 12" wide. Two rows of #4 bar set on bricks or chairs. 48" bypass on all rebar joints. Then they monolithic pour slab and footings. Garage is 8" lower than slab. In Kansas it's 24" deep minimum, and 10" wide. You will never see a block used. Way too much labor. Engineered floor trusses sith on pressure treated plate bolted to the foundation wall.

neolitic

Use Cap bloc or ell's with a brick ledge turned out.
My frost is 32"
I've always used 4 courses all around.
Sounds like you're making it difficult
to save pennies?

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

shanekw1

16" x 8" deep footings are code here (42" below grade for frost but u dont need that) with 8" poured wall on top. I'd keep the footing and wall the same height, and pour the slab later as low as you want.

neolitic

Hey Dutch, surely your frost line
is at least 32", which means three
courses in the ground, and
you want at least 6"-8" from
grade to frame.
That's 4 full courses all round.

BTW: I just realized where you
are, I have an aunt in
New Philadelphia.
My Dad use to love visiting
with an old wood carver in
Dover, maybe his little museum
is still there.
His name will come
to me by and by.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

dutchlegacy

Hey Neo,

I am not trying to make this difficult, I am trying to make it as simple as possible. If it means adding another course of block, I would gladly do that. What is making this difficult is the whole slab thing. I want the foundation to be a common height in the living area and garage, and using the 4x4 solids as a form for the living area is the source of this dilema. I am now thinking about going 4 rows of 8" for the living area, with the 4x4 solids on top of that as a form. Then I will use 5 rows of 8" for the garage. the new elevations would be:

living area finished floor: 100'
garage finished floor: 99'8"
final grade outside: 99'4"
top of footer for living area: 97'
top of footer for garage: 96'8"

footer is 8" deep and 16" wide. This would give me 8" above final grade to start the framing. Does this sound better?

BTW, that old school carver from New Philly was named Mooney Warther.

__________________


www.dutchlegacycompany.com

neolitic

The 4X4 slugs aren't very stable IMO, and will
give you insulation problems if you set them to
the outside, and not as strong as an ell
if you set them inside.
It just looks to me like you can just step the slab
and accomplish the same thing(I've done it).
The other way works too, but for me the simpler
the better.

Thanks.
I was gonna dig up his pliers
to find his name (really started to bug me
trying to remember it).
The first time we were there he and Dad
talked all afternoon.
I've still got a set of pliers he made, and
some that Dad made with him.
I've done 'em too, but not as fast or
as clean.
Is his shop/museum still there?

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

dutchlegacy

You've got some Mooney Warther pliers! thats cool. As you know, he is an amazing craftsman, and his knives fetch quite a handsome price as well. The museum is still there, in fact we held our Christmas banquet there last December. The Warther family bought some land about 10 miles west of the old museum, in between Sugarcreek and Walnut Creek. I think they have plans to open up a store there to sell fine cutlery. I've been on em' because I want to build it!

about the footer and foundation. You're right. I can just attach form boards to the outside of the 4th row of 8 inchers and be done with it. Thank you! These residential builders around here got me all screwed up.

__________________


www.dutchlegacycompany.com

neolitic

Tell me if I am beating a dead horse here.
I'm starting to think that the term "ell block"
doesn't translate across state lines,
might be local lingo?

This place calls them, "8X8X16 Solid Header Pier"
http://www.cinderblockonline.com/gra...rayblock_8.gif
(second row from the left, fourth one down)

The beauty of these is that with the ledge
turned out you can run foam insulation
all the way to the top of the block,
thereby creating a complete thermal break.
If you use 2X6 studs the sole plate
will bridge the block and the foam completely.



Thanks for the info about Warther,
and yes I've got a regular pair
and one of the triples, both signed.
I went on and dug 'em up anyway.
Got to admit though, Dad's are more special.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

dlcj

Ive never seen the solid header around here ( dont mean there not) but we use the hollow one to the left in the pic. Sure beats forming and the wall will cover the top edge of block that shows anyway. Allso allows the use of j-bolts on a 2x4 wall.

neolitic

We always just used the long strap bolts
with them.
The solid ones are pretty commonly used
here. They don't get knocked over as
easily as a 4" block sitting on a cap
when you form a brick ledge.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

TimNJ

I always called them shoe block here in NJ.