Ramp-A-Thon

Bone Saw

one thing that is a grey area so far is permitting???
are you building these ramps without permits??? Who's pulling them???
Permiting/licensing costs, who's footing that???

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Cole

Thats why I want to get some people lined up who are willing to donate some $$ for a great cause.

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rustyjames

Bone Saw that's a good question. Where I live, for whatever reason, you don't need to get a permit for a ramp. Also, as for building to ADA specs. (1:12 for ramp, landings, etc.) that generally doesn't apply to residential in most cases. However, you should always check with the AHJ. Another thing I was thinking about that I don't recall reading on this thread is the issue of liability. I hate to bring it up but nowadays it's something that should be addressed.

Cole

Good Question.

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rustyjames

You know: "no good deed goes unpunished"

I suppose it could be addressed with some kind of waiver or something.

Cole

Yeah a waiver would work, we just need to have an attorney draft it up for us. In this day in age, you can't protect yourself enough.

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BuiltByMAC

Ramps here fall under deck guidelines - under 30" tall, no permit required. I hadn't thought of permits because of that.

I would think if a permit is required in your area, you'll need to submit the plans and take care of securing the permit. You could do a couple of things to cover the cost:
1. talk w/ the city about a fee waiver for the project,
2. find a group/individual willing to pony up a cash donation to cover it,
3. ??

We might be able to sweet-talk Cole into drafting up some generic plan details that could be applied to ramp plans. If we keep all ramps under 30" with one straight leg, the details and diagrams would be very similar.

Regarding the liability issue, I'll talk w/ the folks in WA about their process (they've got volunteers building their ramps so they've got to have something in place). If we do need a lawyer-drafted document, does anyone have a lawyer in their back pocket we can tap into?

Good points made...

Mac

rustyjames

I think I might have made a mistake in my above post about not needing a permit (where I live). In some (probably most) locations you need a permit, but if it's for accessibility modifications for the physically challenged there's no fee.

Tinstaafl

Color me dumb, but what's different about your liability on a pro bono job compared to a paying job? I build to the same standards either way, and I don't see any wording in my insurance policy that would make any difference.

doubleaction

I don't think they are talking about insurance, but more of what happens if you get a wacky HO.

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BuiltByMAC

Liability issues would be the same - pro-bono or paid. We just hadn't discussed before now what, if any, paperwork needs to be signed by the HO. I got a response regarding liability release paperwork - I'll clean up the wording and post it as a .doc file on the rat site under "Builder Resources" tonight. After reading through it, I think it will work fine for us as a release from liability. I'm not worried about the quality of the construction - each one of you guys will build a fine ramp - but like doubleaction mentioned, we'll need something to protect us from the sue-happy types.

Mac

CA Contractor

"Liability issues would be the same - pro-bono or paid. We just hadn't discussed before now what, if any, paperwork needs to be signed by the HO. I got a response regarding liability release paperwork - I'll clean up the wording and post it as a .doc file on the rat site under "Builder Resources" tonight. After reading through it, I think it will work fine for us as a release from liability. I'm not worried about the quality of the construction - each one of you guys will build a fine ramp - but like doubleaction mentioned, we'll need something to protect us from the sue-happy types.

Mac"

ANOTHER SUGGESTION AS FAR AS LIABILITY -- a suggestion to provide a form in which the homeowner signs they are the actual owner of property, then follow up to verify. What a shame to do all that work only to find out it was for a renter -- stranger things have happened in this business.

Greg Di

Wow...good points all around.

I have a lawyer friend I can ask about doing some sort of blanket hold harmless agreement we can all use. I'll ask tomorrow.

For plans and permits, I would think that most BIs would do whatever they could to waive the fee without a lot of red tape. Especially if they know you and your work already. I do not forsee all the ramps being as straightforward design-wise as Mac's by me as many houses have very awkward entryways and approaches to deal with. Again, I would hope that a warm-hearted BI would take a quickie drawing and let us just build for the sake of getting it done.

It's a shame that we are trying to good and could be stifled by legalities and "what ifs". To be honest, personally, I would just build the ramp and not lose sleep over being sued. Most people are honest and the thought of suing does not enter their minds. I believe people are generally good. Naive, but that's what I think...

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Tinstaafl

MALCO.New.York

Not to be the PITA that I can be.................

But MANY persons and Families with "Special Needs" Children, especially ones who got that way through an Accident, have SERIOUS " Entitlement Issues".

These People, and I do not mean all recipients of Love, Charity and Human Kindness, are QUICK to sue!!!!

CYA in the BIGGEST of ways!!!!!


A "The World OWES Me and Us for this Burden" kinda Attitude!!!!

REALLY!!!!

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Greg Di

I spoke to a lawyer today. His recommendation is that "Ramp-a-thon" form an LLC with the members involved and all of us members of the LLC act through the LLC on an administrative level to limit exposure and liability.

He also said a blanket hold harmless agreement would be simple to write and would be binding in all states, but everything should point to the LLC.

Not really what I wanted to hear, but when you ask a lawyer for a solution, it always involves lawyering...

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doubleaction

Any waivers then?

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BuiltByMAC

Ramp-a-thon is nothing more than a series of ideas and methods for building your own ramp, pro-bono.

Each of us has liability insurance, each of us has that protection when we start a job and run a jobsite, this is no different.
This is us going out and finding someone to build for, then building them a ramp. Take a peek at the Liability Release I posted on the RAT website - it should cover your company in regards to the homeowner. Yes, you will have to verify that the person you're building the ramp for actually owns the home. Yes, your company does need to have Liability Insurance. No, Ramp-a-thon does not need to become an LLC.

Sorry, guys, I don't have the time to try and coordinate that type of venture. This was always a "give you the information so you can run with it" type of deal. Run it like you would any other job, same protections, same conditions. If you want, write up a contract w/ the HO. Everything standard except in the payment schedule, you've got nothin' but 0's.

Mac

BuiltByMAC

Hmmm, did you check out the waiver I was talking about which I posted on the RAT website?
ramp-a-thon.com -
click on Builders -
click on Builder Resources -
Scroll to the bottom and you'll see:
Homeowner's Release from Liability - MS Word Doc

Click on the MS Word Doc and read that file...

Mac

doubleaction

opps sorry haven't looked at the website in a few days. Thanks

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