R E agent says proposed buyers can sue for breach of contract? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

curapa · 10-26-2009, 09:20 PM

My parents have had their home for sale via Re-Max and they have recently found a buyer.

During the initial visit with the R E agent, my parents informed her that they did not want to pay closing costs. The agent did a rough sketch with all of the costs of selling the property including lawyer fees, R E fees etc...

Included in those fees were the closing costs in which my parents were told by the agent the buyers would have to pay.

Now that the home is in the process of closing the agent has called my parents with the details of how much money would be going to them after all fees have been paid and guess what,... the closing fees were subtracted from their balance.

My parents have been arguing with the agent because the agent is playing dumb about the initial meeting and what was said.

In addition, the agent is claiming the buyers can sue them for breach of contract now for not accepting the balance minus closing costs.

NO contract has been signed by my parents. What is the deal? Can they be sued even though there is no contract yet? My parents are more than happy to sell but the profit was minimal already and they are not willing to pay for closing.

bwalley · 10-26-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curapa

My parents have had their home for sale via Re-Max and they have recently found a buyer.

During the initial visit with the R E agent, my parents informed her that they did not want to pay closing costs. The agent did a rough sketch with all of the costs of selling the property including lawyer fees, R E fees etc...

Included in those fees were the closing costs in which my parents were told by the agent the buyers would have to pay.

Now that the home is in the process of closing the agent has called my parents with the details of how much money would be going to them after all fees have been paid and guess what,... the closing fees were subtracted from their balance.

My parents have been arguing with the agent because the agent is playing dumb about the initial meeting and what was said.

In addition, the agent is claiming the buyers can sue them for breach of contract now for not accepting the balance minus closing costs.

NO contract has been signed by my parents. What is the deal? Can they be sued even though there is no contract yet? My parents are more than happy to sell but the profit was minimal already and they are not willing to pay for closing.

Without a signed contract by your parents, there is nothing that the buyers or RE agent can do

nEighter · 10-26-2009, 09:26 PM

R E screwed me too. the lady made.. (sitdown) 16% off the sale of my place, the seller was supposed to pay closing costs, and yet I still got dinged with it. I may give it to my attorney soon. It still pisses me off

concretemasonry · 10-26-2009, 09:32 PM

Many RE agents are just a cut (possibly) above a used car salesman/dealer or a "door knocking contractor" that are doing work in the area when it comes to verifying and documenting discussions.

If they were not smart enough to get it in a signed contract then they are just stupid.

When it comes down to the $s in a real estate sale, everything must be in writing.

Tattoo · 10-26-2009, 09:35 PM

Did your parents sign a listing contract with the agent? Has the listing agent presented a offer to purchase from the buyers or buyers agent? You say that they are now in closing... to me this says that there was a list.... there was an accepted offer from both parties... If this is the case and the offer was accepted than there IS a contract. If all conditions of the contract were met by both parties (ie. inspection, financing etc... ) than the contract is binding. If this is the case... I would have them speak to a lawyer. I am a former Realtor in Canada. This is what would happen here.... Sorry if this is not the case in the US....but my understanding is that the rules are very similar to ours.

When things get tainted in a real estate deal the best advice I would give someone is to speak to the brokerage manager and if this does not work than speak to someone with the real estate board about the conduct of the agent.... There are lots of law suits regarding these things.

Tell your parents to start documenting everything now.

Hope this helps a little

Kgmz · 10-26-2009, 09:39 PM

What does the listing agreement say? I hope they did sign one.

What closing costs are they asking for?

Normally most closing costs are paid by the buyer and some by the seller. It really depends on what is standard practice in your area, because there is not one standard across the US.

Example, in some areas it is standard for the buyer to pay title insurance, in another it is standard for the seller to pay for the title insurance.

bwalley · 10-26-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tattoo

Did your parents sign a listing contract with the agent? Has the listing agent presented a offer to purchase from the buyers or buyers agent? You say that they are now in closing... to me this says that there was a list.... there was an accepted offer from both parties... If this is the case and the offer was accepted than there IS a contract. If all conditions of the contract were met by both parties (ie. inspection, financing etc... ) than the contract is binding. If this is the case... I would have them speak to a lawyer. I am a former Realtor in Canada. This is what would happen here.... Sorry if this is not the case in the US....but my understanding is that the rules are very similar to ours.

When things get tainted in a real estate deal the best advice I would give someone is to speak to the brokerage manager and if this does not work than speak to someone with the real estate board about the conduct of the agent.... There are lots of law suits regarding these things.

Tell your parents to start documenting everything now.

Hope this helps a little

This isn't canada and without signed contract from the sellers there is no contract

Tattoo · 10-26-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwalley

This isn't canada and without signed contract from the sellers there is no contract

I am well aware of the RE rules.... I was offering advice to the OP.

Cheers

bwalley · 10-26-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tattoo

I am well aware of the RE rules.... I was offering advice to the OP.

Cheers

The OP (Original Poster) is in Georgia, Canadian law is not applicable.

Tattoo · 10-26-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwalley

The OP (Original Poster) is in Georgia, Canadian law is not applicable.

I am quite confident that the rules are different in almost every state in the US as they are in every province in Canada....

It is always amuzing how someone will try to belittle another for there own gain.

Anyway... Good luck with this one Curapa. I was just trying to help with my experience.

Cheers

bwalley · 10-26-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tattoo

I am quite confident that the rules are different in almost every state in the US as they are in every province in Canada....

It is always amuzing how someone will try to belittle another for there own gain.

Anyway... Good luck with this one Curapa. I was just trying to help with my experience.

Cheers

I understand you tried to help, but canadian law is not the same as laws in the United States.

Real Estate is one area that only written contracts will be enforced, there are other areas where verbal contracts are valid, but not Real estate, i learned this the hard way.

WarnerConstInc. · 10-26-2009, 11:00 PM

If they signed a sellers agreement to list the house and now they are in closing, someone signed something somewhere.

When they accepted the offer?

If no offer is accepted yet, it can not be in closing.

Kgmz · 10-26-2009, 11:03 PM

Actually real estate transactions are handled basically the same way in Canada and the US.

Remember we both got our system from the British.

But I am wondering how this could get to closing without something signed.

piercekiltoff · 10-27-2009, 12:01 AM

Tattoo's essentially right on this one - if they initialed the fine print in an offer - they signed the contract. The closing costs should have been detailed in those documents (state dependent). I'd get a hold of the Realtor's association and the broker, really make some waves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretemasonry

Many RE agents are just a cut (possibly) above a used car salesman/dealer or a "door knocking contractor" that are doing work in the area when it comes to verifying and documenting discussions.

If they were not smart enough to get it in a signed contract then they are just stupid.

When it comes down to the $s in a real estate sale, everything must be in writing.

Don't insult the car salesman.

angus242 · 10-27-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kgmz

But I am wondering how this could get to closing without something signed.

I agree. I have bought 3 houses and sold 2 in the past 8 years. There are various times throughout the process when papers are signed. Less likely to have a contract when you're BUYING, but when you're selling, I cannot imagine a realtor would list your house at all without a written contract.

That's when the fees are negotiated. You are even agreeing to what the BUYER'S realtor will be paid at that point.

In my experience, it's the SELLER that pays realtor fees.

GrasshopperPete · 10-27-2009, 04:20 AM

My 2 cents as a real estate licensee for 15 years in IL ( 1985-2000 )

Some rules I was taught in school by an attorney in licensing classes:

1. If its not in writing it doesnt exist.
2. Even if its in writing it is generally renegotiable at any point.
3. Make sure to tell folks you`re not an attorney and o seek one when you feel its appropriate. ( Im not an attorney and dont practice w/o a license)

Those 3 rules have been worth the price of the course and 15 years of blood sweat and tears in that profession.

My take on this:

If the listing agreement says sellers pay costs and how much, then sellers must pay costs if realtor brings a "ready, willing and able" buyer.

Ready and Willing = demostrated by a signed contract.
Able = demonstrated by a mortgage commitment from an end lender,
not just Joe Blow mortgage broker.

The contract has to mirror the listing agreement as to what the seller gets...

E.G = listed for 1 million and seller pays 10,000 in costs then in order to hold seller to 10,000 in costs the offer has to be for 1,000,000 and not a penny less. Theoretically not a penny more either...just whats agreed at listing.

Additionally other conditions of the listing agreement have to be met like:
closing date, time allowed buyers to get a mortgage, what stays and what goes.

If any of those are not exactly what was agreed to in the listing agreement then there you can decline the offer w/o worries of pay commision, suit for performance by buyers, etc.

But remember rule 2.

And rule 4: It anit over till its over. OK that was Yogi Berra, but still.

The best weasel clause you can add to a listing agreement and later a contract for sale is:

"No closing / No commission." That one takes generally takes care of all the bullchit that comes along.

Grasshopper clause: Rememebe,r seek legal counsel

GrasshopperPete · 10-27-2009, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nEighter

R E screwed me too. the lady made.. (sitdown) 16% off the sale of my place, the seller was supposed to pay closing costs, and yet I still got dinged with it. I may give it to my attorney soon. It still pisses me off

No one screwed you.

With all the papers and notices you have to sign, you agreed to get screwed.

Where was your lawyer?

GrasshopperPete · 10-27-2009, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tattoo

Did your parents sign a listing contract with the agent? Has the listing agent presented a offer to purchase from the buyers or buyers agent? You say that they are now in closing... to me this says that there was a list.... there was an accepted offer from both parties... If this is the case and the offer was accepted than there IS a contract. If all conditions of the contract were met by both parties (ie. inspection, financing etc... ) than the contract is binding. If this is the case... I would have them speak to a lawyer. I am a former Realtor in Canada. This is what would happen here.... Sorry if this is not the case in the US....but my understanding is that the rules are very similar to ours.

When things get tainted in a real estate deal the best advice I would give someone is to speak to the brokerage manager and if this does not work than speak to someone with the real estate board about the conduct of the agent.... There are lots of law suits regarding these things.

Tell your parents to start documenting everything now.

Hope this helps a little

Nice try, you are correct.

Rule 5: no good deed goes unpunished.

Bone Saw · 10-27-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tattoo

Did your parents sign a listing contract with the agent? Has the listing agent presented a offer to purchase from the buyers or buyers agent? You say that they are now in closing... to me this says that there was a list.... there was an accepted offer from both parties... If this is the case and the offer was accepted than there IS a contract. If all conditions of the contract were met by both parties (ie. inspection, financing etc... ) than the contract is binding. If this is the case... I would have them speak to a lawyer. I am a former Realtor in Canada. This is what would happen here.... Sorry if this is not the case in the US....but my understanding is that the rules are very similar to ours.

When things get tainted in a real estate deal the best advice I would give someone is to speak to the brokerage manager and if this does not work than speak to someone with the real estate board about the conduct of the agent.... There are lots of law suits regarding these things.

Tell your parents to start documenting everything now.

Hope this helps a little

ditto

Bone Saw · 10-27-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc.

If they signed a sellers agreement to list the house and now they are in closing, someone signed something somewhere.

When they accepted the offer?

If no offer is accepted yet, it can not be in closing.

my thoughts to the T