Question For All Self Employed/owners???

billderboots

Ive got a question for all us self employed owner contractors. does not really matter what trade your in You all can chime in on this one.
How many of you have had your builder complain because your not on the job daily. I mean you can have your whole crew there and doing a helluva good job but the man just calls your cell each and every time your not there yourself.
Ive got this going on myself. Ive been subbing for years from this same fella. I started out doing the siding work, then took on his roofing, then finally the framing work and sometimes interior trim and paint work. at one point i had a 8 man crew on the job. now when i first started i was there daily 6 days a week sunup to sundown. then as i felt comfortable with my son running things and he is a working little maniac. I started taking some time for myself and wife. i would swing by several times a week you know to pick up checks and make payroll. and just check everything out. it was always good. Now the builder is getting pissy because he thinks i need to be there as well. Im thinking his figuring is if i can afford not to be on the job then he is paying me too much. Im not sure i aggree with this thinking and he has almost came out and said it. sorry this is so long but this has been bothering me with not just this builder but others too over the years. Im just wondering if im alone with this or are there others out there that have had this too. for the record all the work i do is contract, no hourly rates. To be fair his claim is when im there more production occurs. feel free to chime in here guys.

finehomes

Years ago I had an electrician that worked this way. Showed up on the job with his journeyman on the first day to go through the job with me and homeowner to see what the job entailed and then would disappear while the journeyman did all the work. He would be at the coffeeshop hanging out with his buddies. The work was always done well and at the agreed on price and done as fast as we needed it, but it always bugged me that he was never there helping. I finally told his guy that when he finally got his master license and decided to venture out on his own....he should call me and I would be his first builder to work for. That guy has been my electrician now for the past 8 years or so!!!



Sam

billderboots

may i ask was his pricing your problem with the first guy? or did the new electrician give you better service? I guess what im asking did this move make better financial sense for you ? just asking

precisionbuild

Some people are just control freaks and it pisses them off when they can't control every aspect of your life. They think their perceived power gives them that right.


I would tell them to pound sand.

billderboots

I hear ya brother that is my general thought process when the phone rings on my hip for the seventh time in the same day. and all along i know my boys doing the work responsibly cause i call my son/foreman immediatly to find out how things are.

finehomes

Pricing stayed the same. It just irritated me that one guy did all of the work and the other guy that sat on his butt at the coffee shop got all the money. Now....if he had 2-3 guys there doing all the work and he was out finding work for them, at the office billing, bidding, etc and not just playing....I would have had more respect for him, but we all knew where he was every day because we'd drive by and see his truck there. I don't care if the boss is on the job every day as long as the work is getting done, IF he is running his business and not our jerking off somewhere. I get rid of those types really fast....or don't hire them in the first place. To me...it sounds like you are taking care of things and your GC is getting a little over excited. If you really do get more production when you are there, sounds like you need to work out some problems with your crew. Maybe you being around a LITTLE more often would help....but all day everyday is something a business owner can't do and keep work going ahead of him. Good Luck!!!


Sam

billderboots

It could be that he is getting a little over excited. And yes i do constantly monitor whats going on the job. Im not saying that a little grab ass doesnt go on when im not there You know when the cats away the mice will play.
I think more so that with the economy like it is sales are down and the builder is really going over his $ with a fine tooth comb and looking for answers. thinking maybe his job costs are out of line.

buildpinnacle

If I hire a subcontractor to do a specific job for a specific price in a specific timeframe, I don't care if he has built a team of irobots. If the results are what I expect, any other reaction from me would be that of emotion which has no place in business.

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precisionbuild

Agreed.

billderboots

That was my argument exactly. One day he offers to take me out for coffee and wants to talk this over..about me not being there and the job not going as fast as he would like. My argument was Im charging you the same in the end no matter if takes the boys 5 minutes or 5 days. you pay the same. his argument was if im making money with a less than perfect production than im charging him too much. Make sense??

Ivinni

Sam,

I would tell you to pound sand if you thought you could tell me what to do with my time or how to run my business.

WTF do you care?

And the bigger question is:

WHY would you care?

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its not going to get better with straps, or new footings or even aroma therapy.

BKFranks

When a GC wants to ask you a question and needs an answer, I think they can get frustrated a bit if you're not there, but I think most realize that you are running your own business and need to be out there looking for work while your crew is on the jobsite getting the job done. If the GC needs you to answer a question, you're only a phone call away. If he wants you to be there at a certain time to meet maybe with the home owner all the GC needs to do is schedule it. Most of the time the subs I work with can show up the same day or the following morning. Most of the time I work with the same subs on a continual basis so their workers are the usually the same guys so it's easy to build a report with everyone. GC's sometimes tell subs workers things that need to be done and the workers will ask a GC or homeowner if they have a preference for certain aspects during construction. Most of the time this works OK, but some people are have a strict adherance to the heirarchy during construction. The home owner only deals with the GC. The GC deals only with the home owner and subs, the workers only listen to their boss, etc...

I think if you can't be on the job all the time, the GC just needs to be able to get ahold of you on the phone. If you want to continue to work for him I would be answering the phone every time he calls and show up when he needs you there. That's my two cents...

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TERM101

I was backfilling a house one time and even had the super go so far as to complain which side of the house I was starting on...Like it mattered to me? It was a half a day job..Not to mention working around 20 mexicans and a couple of vehicles..I basically told him to stuff it.. But..If I run into the problem your describing I just try to explain to them that my boys are good enough that I will ensure the same results either way and if there is any problems/questions to call me.

buildpinnacle

[quote=billderboots;558307]My argument was Im charging you the same in the end no matter if takes the boys 5 minutes or 5 days. you pay the same. quote]

This comment is the only one I have a problem with, attitute wise. I absolutely care how long it takes as every day a job is under production it is eating O/H. I have had the 'talk' with my subs regarding this same comment. I get paid the same whether it takes five minutes or five days....I don't. If we agreed on five minutes....do it five minutes. There is no room for opinions in contracts. We do what we agree to do.

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Bodger

As a GC, if I hire a sub I'm mainly concerned that the work gets done properly and professionally and in a timely manner. If the sub isn't there, I expect him to leave a competent qualified crew, and I expect and insist that at least one of them speaks English so if I have a question or need to tell the crew something, I don't have to run around looking for an intrpreter or call the sub.
Unfortunately, a lot of the subs I have dealt with have assured me that they are leaving qualified personnel on the job, and this has often turned out be incorrect and a lot of work has been done wrong, a lot of messes have been left, and damage to other trades' work has occurred.
My policy, my approach, is that if the work is getting done right, I don't care who is or isn't on the site or where they are instead.
Why would I? It's none of my business.

Mike Finley

The only difference here is originally when he hired you to do work as a sub for him, HE HIRED YOU, you were on the job, now you aren't.

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions about him. It's is perfectly possible that the work isn't getting done a quickly or as competently as you think it is.

First thing to do is ask him point blank if there are any problems with the work. Ask specific questions and about specific things, no just a general, is everything okay?

You might be shocked that things aren't as you believe they are. The guy might have a legitimate gripe and you might be closer to being tossed out of his line up then you might think. He might just be the type who won't come right out and bitch at you about something, instead he might be the type who thinks if you're not smart enough to figure it out he isn't going to tell you, and one day you're going to find out the hard way when he's had enough.

Just something to think about.

wireless

The bigger problem is when the GC only shows up for a few minutes once a day!

Teetorbilt

Just tell him to chill and be absolutely sure to meet your deadline. I always liked to finsh a week to 3 days ahead of schedule, makes everybody feel good.

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You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

mics_54

From the GC perspective if your crew gets more done when you are there then that is money in his pocket. I don't blame him for wanting you there. Interim loans aren't free. A job ahead of schedule is a good place to be. Maybe you don't care what you GC thinks...maybe you will.

woodchuck2

I have had a couple homeowners ask why i am not there everyday. Its quite simple actually, they are not the only customer and i have to juggle my schedule by when other homeowners will be home and by the weather. I often have 5-10 jobs going at once and it can get quite hectic since i work alone for the most part.

I did have one customer complain that i worked too slow, took too long, charged too much and that i wasnt at his home when he was there. What i did for this guy was remove the skirting from his doublewide, clean the rails for the skirting, frame up a small wall "2' on center" around the bottom of the home on top of PT plates, insulate with 2"foam board insulation, install two access doors, repair some wiring underneath for the well pump, re-install rails, cut all skirting to fit and installed. Now i estimated 20hrs to do the job, gave him all materials at cost, removed trash for free, did not charge him for material pick-up or travel time, and payed a friend out of my pocket to help get it done in 19hrs at no cost to him. He pissed and moaned that i charged too much "a little over $1k with materials/labor" and wanted to meet with me to discuss a better deal. Needless to say i lost it on the phone, i told him to take his home and the rest of the work he wanted done and to shove it. I told him that i really didnt think it would be wise for us to meet again and that as far as i was concerned i bought him.