Premium tools...worth it (warning, long post) - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

samthedog · 04-15-2008, 03:25 PM

Hello chaps, as you can tell I am quite new however I have frequented other forums and have spent some time silently here. I am trying to compare what I know of the Australian, European and American mindsets so here goes...

Premium tools, are they worth it?

Of late I have been spending time thinking about the fact that our expectations of what a tool should be has slipped somewhat. I can guarantee that many of us have a hammer, maybe a set of chisels or some wrenches we inherited that very possibly are still used to today. When we buy tools do we have the expectation that they will last and that one day we will pass them down? I mean, the price for quality items hasn't changed, but maybe our expectation has? Have we been conditioned to be consumers and not question when an expensive item breaks or falls apart? Is the 1 - 3 year guarantee really good enough for non-power tools that cost a fortune?

I have read many posts on this forum and have become familiar with many names, 'Occidental, Festool, Stiletto, Death Stick, Veto Pro Pac, Freud, two cherries, Fluke, Hilti etc..' and am wondering how many people when they find quality stick to it? I mean I know for one that when I enter a tool store I have to trawl through all the junk to find something that is decent quality. I then spend time on the internet to read all the reviews to establish weather it is actually any good and then make a decision to buy it. Whatever happened to stores that made it their responsibility to sell quality in the first place? Has this changed because we expect more for less and therefore have fallen victim to cheap but not necessarily good tools?

Does a store who ONLY sells quality become doomed by our buying habits? I mean, I am the type of guy who calculates the long run. I will gladly spend 2X or 3X to know without a doubt that what I am using will last and will not break mid job forcing me to run to the hardware store to replace it, losing time and money. I also get a feeling of great satisfaction from well engineered tools that make what I do enjoyable and less of a chore. I also enjoy the fact that I use great tools and that I am separated by the hack contractors by well maintained, quality tools. I am sure that is the case for many of us so I have some questions that I need your opinions on.

1) What is it that makes you reach for the cheaper tool rather than the quality tool?

2) Are you concerned that someone will steal the equipment you have spent so much on?

3) Do you find it hard to justify spending the money on a tool that's twice the price and feel that Koreans or Chinese produce the same quality as the USA, European or UK built tools?

4) Do you consider your hand tools as disposable items and therefore should not have excess money wasted on them?

5) Are you dubious of warranties and guarantees and therefore prefer tools that can be replaced cheaply?

6) Do you find it hard to trust reps of tool companies and feel that your best interest is not served?

7) Are you like me and have yet to find a good quality store that exclusively stocks quality products?

8) Do you feel that more often than not you are just paying for the name?

I guess I am trying to find out why premium tool shops are so rare. Why can't I find a store that has done the hard work and ONLY stocks the best? The best is not necessarily the most expensive however no stores actually test their products to see if the sales hype is in fact true. I for one would shop exclusively at a store that would offer this however I have never found one. Ever. I am not a brand fan. I have Hitachi, Metabo, Makita, Bosch, Fein, Bostitch, Paslode and buy what I consider the best tools of the brand names. Why can't shops do this? How come they stay committed to a name even when they know that a line of tools performs like a handful of turd and has the life expectancy of an anemic vegetarian in a concreter's work crew?

I would like to see the sort of store that makes it their responsibility to stock quality open and I would whole heartedly support it. Would you? Why or why not? I just think we have been giving our hard earned dough to the wrong people for too long. I for one would like to see the return of tools that we could pass to our kids. I would also like to see stores that offer these tools and warranties and guarantees that actually mean something.

samthedog.

woodchuck2 · 04-15-2008, 04:11 PM

For me this varies on what the tools are for. I will spend the extra money on a good hammer, chisels, screwdrivers, compound miter saws, skill saws, etc. But when it comes to drills, sawzalls, ladders and such then i buy the cheaper brands and when they give me problems then i replace them. I have been buying reman drills lately with good luck too. Usually half or 2/3 the money and work great. I also buy elcheapo drills, grinders and beater saws from Harbor Freight and have great luck with them too. The HF tools i use on roofs or in crawl spaces/ditches in case i drop them to the ground or in the mud. I learned this after dropping a new 18v Dewalt cordless hammerdrill off a roof to the concrete below, broke it right in half. $300 down the crapper. Now i use my old beater 14v Dewalt for roofing and the new 14v, 18v Dewalts for the electrical. I also use an old skill saw for roofing instead of using my new Makita that works great for finish work. Aluminum ladders i spend good money on but small fiberglass step ladders i buy cheap since they are plenty strong enough and i dont feel bad if one gets broken since they are cheap.

KillerToiletSpider · 04-15-2008, 05:12 PM

Most of my power tools are Hilti, I can buy them directly from Hilti.

**Teetorbilt** · 04-15-2008, 05:25 PM

I agree with woodchuck, gauge the tool to the job.

If it can be protected and be used everyday, buy the best. If it could fall off of a roof tomorrow or is not used often, save some money.

Susan Betz · 04-15-2008, 05:26 PM

I don't go near Harbor Freight. Every single thing I have ever bought there has been crap.

One of our biggest consumables in tools are chainsaws. We buy Stihl and have them serviced by the pros at the tractor shop. We've tried the cheap Lowes chainsaws but they don't hold a candle to a Stihl.

samthedog · 04-15-2008, 05:33 PM

I agree completely. I will spend big bucks on tool belts, bags, hammers chisels etc.. Do you guys find theft to be a problem? Also, I think you guys might have more access to premium tools than we do here in Norway. When I lived in Australia it was easier to find decent tools.

Tom R · 04-15-2008, 05:34 PM

Why do I suddenly feel a 'Tool Crib of the Norway' ad comin' on?? . . .

**Teetorbilt** · 04-15-2008, 05:45 PM

Nice choice Susan. I used to work for a Stihl dealer. IMHO the best bang for the buck.

I do go to HF for things like pipe wrenches (used once or twice a year) or a 24" adjustable wrench that's used even less frequently. These were bought for specific jobs and the price was built into the jobs.

Before I catch more flak about this practice. I pay to store, maintain and pay ad valorem taxes on these tools that are seldom used.

WarnerConstInc. · 04-15-2008, 07:15 PM

Things I always seem to lose, cheaper ones,(screwdirvers, adj. wrenches, plyers, the little crap that I have 10 of) anything that I want and need to use, I only buy the best. Most of my tools are bostitch (all air tools), bosch, hilti and Festool. Once you buy and use the best you wonder why I always bought a new makita saw every couple of years. Plus as a added bonus resale on premium tools is very high which makes it more affordable to upgrade when new and improved models come out. I will end on that whatever I need to buy I buy the best i can find of that particular tool (milwakee sawzall, bosch portable table saw and so on) I am not really brand loyal just quality loyal

dutchlegacy · 04-15-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerToiletSpi

Most of my power tools are Hilti, I can buy them directly from Hilti.

I'll second that, Hilti makes fine tools. I buy Hilti, Fein, and Bosch. I appreciate German craftsmenship.

KillerToiletSpider · 04-15-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teetorbilt

Nice choice Susan. I used to work for a Stihl dealer. IMHO the best bang for the buck.

I do go to HF for things like pipe wrenches (used once or twice a year) or a 24" adjustable wrench that's used even less frequently. These were bought for specific jobs and the price was built into the jobs.

Before I catch more flak about this practice. I pay to store, maintain and pay ad valorem taxes on these tools that are seldom used.

That was how I felt right outta HS when I started working as a weldor in the bargeyards, I don't use it enough to justify the money, then I switched to working on locomotives out in the field. I lost that attitude quick. I only have one of most handtools, the last thing I want is for that tool to fail when I am a hundred miles outta town working on a locomotive, you can't go to Home Despair and buy a two and a half inch wrench. I have kept that mindset as I progressed into the plumbing trade, and buy the best of what I am buying, be it handtools or power tools. I would really hate to be on a high rise shut down to repair a 4 inch water riser and have my only 36" pipe wrench break halfway through the job.

Canook · 04-15-2008, 07:54 PM

Stabila levels...are worth the price!

wellbuilt home · 04-20-2008, 08:22 PM

Ive found most tools are cheep junk even most bosh hilti dewalt ect I have most of the tool i bought in the 70s and 80s and they still work like new. My tools i buy on Ebay and send them out for a rebuild .When they come back they work like new and last for years.and are cheeper then new .I have every milwalkie drill i ever bought and i have more then i can count .My guys just get the new stuff . I have sideing planks that are 30 years old .

DEAD_ONConst · 04-21-2008, 06:46 AM

I would have to say that I usually tend to buy the best quality tools first.

Being a former auto technician, I have learned the value of buying GOOD tools. I avoid Crapsman like the plague! I have spent tens of thousands on tools over the last 16 years, and except for loss, they ALL still work great! That being said, I knew I was going to spend a lot of money on QUALITY tools that made my job easy and ACCURATE, so I budgeted accordingly.

That being said, when I decided to be a contractor, I started out with a lot of DeWalt stuff, turned out to be junk, to me, and so I started looking at Ridgid. I have found their entire line to be high quality, and foremost, EXTREMELY accurate. I don't worry about having a junk tool that may or may not get broken when it falls. IMHO, accuracy is more important than the possibility that a tool may be damaged from a fall or dirt or water. If that is the case, I take extra care to minimize the possibilities.

samthedog · 04-21-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom R

Why do I suddenly feel a 'Tool Crib of the Norway' ad comin' on?? . . .

Wouldn't that be nice

If only I had the time or the energy.

curapa · 04-21-2008, 10:17 PM

Depends on the amount of use.

HF for the every once in a while tools,...grinders, paint sprayers, misc. hand tools.

My main tools include brands such as Hitachi, Makita, Rigid, Dewalt, Porter cable. Still not top of the line but more middle of the road...dependable but yet easily replaceable. Rigid tools have surprisingly served me well for the past 3 or so years.

Curt

samthedog · 04-22-2008, 02:54 PM

I have to admit that I don't stick to one brand either. For example I have a hitachi sds max drill and a makita sds + drill. I went with what seemed to be better value and had better features at the time. Same deal with my miter saws. I have a Bosch 10 inch and a makita 7 1/2 inch simply because of what I thought was better value for the clams at the time. That said I do only use vise-grip grips and gucci work boots

TempestV · 04-22-2008, 03:29 PM

I have a lot of good tools that I bought out of the cheap bin at the hardware store and such. However, I will only buy cheap tools when I can hold them in my hands and tell if they are worth buying. As a result, HF is out.

Name brand isn't always worth the extra money, sometimes they are poorer quality than the knockoffs. I bought an adjustable wrench the other day. I was going to get an actual crescent, but I realized that the hardware store brand that was 1/2 the price was actually a better wrench.

Even among good tools, some are better than others, so IMO, you would be stupid to not shop around and determine which is the better tool in each category.

I doubt tool stores would have the money to do independent testing to determine which is best, and even if they did, what if I have a different opinion than the person testing the tool? In my experience, as far as quality is concerned, a good tool store has a pretty good grasp on what is getting brought back because it breaks frequently.

Also, there have been times when I know that the project I need the tool for will destroy the tool, or at least there is a good chance, for some reason. Maybe I need to cut a wrench in half to reach some hard to reach spot for example. I'm not going to pay for top quality tools when no matter what, it will only get one use. I'll even get another cheap tool even though I already have the top quality version, because I don't want to loose the one I already have.

PARA1 · 04-22-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerToiletSpi

That was how I felt right outta HS when I started working as a weldor in the bargeyards, I don't use it enough to justify the money, then I switched to working on locomotives out in the field. I lost that attitude quick. I only have one of most handtools, the last thing I want is for that tool to fail when I am a hundred miles outta town working on a locomotive, you can't go to Home Despair and buy a two and a half inch wrench. I have kept that mindset as I progressed into the plumbing trade, and buy the best of what I am buying, be it handtools or power tools. I would really hate to be on a high rise shut down to repair a 4 inch water riser and have my only 36" pipe wrench break halfway through the job.

THATS WHAT SHARK BITES ARE FOR!

woodchuck2 · 04-22-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEAD_ONConst

I would have to say that I usually tend to buy the best quality tools first.

Being a former auto technician, I have learned the value of buying GOOD tools. I avoid Crapsman like the plague! I have spent tens of thousands on tools over the last 16 years, and except for loss, they ALL still work great! That being said, I knew I was going to spend a lot of money on QUALITY tools that made my job easy and ACCURATE, so I budgeted accordingly.

That being said, when I decided to be a contractor, I started out with a lot of DeWalt stuff, turned out to be junk, to me, and so I started looking at Ridgid. I have found their entire line to be high quality, and foremost, EXTREMELY accurate. I don't worry about having a junk tool that may or may not get broken when it falls. IMHO, accuracy is more important than the possibility that a tool may be damaged from a fall or dirt or water. If that is the case, I take extra care to minimize the possibilities.

OH damn, I use to be a GM tech and a Chrysler tech and i too have bought almost all Dewalt

. The only Rigid product that i have is a 13" planer. Thank god Snap-On doesnt make to many tools for our trades or we would be in the poor house

.