plumbing and electrical permits - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

johnisimpson · 12-08-2008, 10:45 PM

I'm curious who else lives in cities or counties that require a master electrician or master plumber to pull permits for any "addition, repair or alteration" of electrical or plumbing systems that are over $100.

I'm asking because I went to pull a plumbing permit for my own home and was refused. Chattanooga does not allow homeowners to work on their own electrical or plumbing systems unless licensed as Masters. I might not mind this so much if I was a plumber or electrician but I'm a painter and though the city does require a permit for interior or exterior repaints, they do not enforce it, so it's no benefit to my business.

I was told these rules were adopted 2 years ago to cut down on shoddy, hack work done by flippers but it doesn't add up to me. I'm sure plenty of people feel encouraged to skip the whole permitting process and it seems this just pushes people towards work that won't be inspected.

I feel that if I can do work that meets code and passes inspection then I should have the right to work on my own home.

What are your thoughts?

threaderman · 12-08-2008, 11:01 PM

Only the contractor knows the current codes, as they change,or can change, every 3 years,and we are required by law to sit in classrooms on our own time ,in the form of continuing education to keep abreast of current codes in order to keep our licenses active.Many diyers have no clue about structural integrity,or current codes.Many diy stores sell illegal products ,as do some supply houses,and unless you know the current codes and hold the license,it's illegal,period.

Max Nomad · 12-08-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnisimpson

I'm curious who else lives in cities or counties that require a master electrician or master plumber to pull permits for any "addition, repair or alteration" of electrical or plumbing systems that are over $100.

I'm asking because I went to pull a plumbing permit for my own home and was refused. Chattanooga does not allow homeowners to work on their own electrical or plumbing systems unless licensed as Masters. I might not mind this so much if I was a plumber or electrician but I'm a painter and though the city does require a permit for interior or exterior repaints, they do not enforce it, so it's no benefit to my business.

I was told these rules were adopted 2 years ago to cut down on shoddy, hack work done by flippers but it doesn't add up to me. I'm sure plenty of people feel encouraged to skip the whole permitting process and it seems this just pushes people towards work that won't be inspected.

I feel that if I can do work that meets code and passes inspection then I should have the right to work on my own home.

What are your thoughts?

Aside from the bureaucratic and $$$ aspect of the whole permit thing, I'd have to say I'm glad that homeowners can't pull those types of permits, especially in this Internet-HGTV-DIY channel era. Let's face it -- for every homeowner like you who may know exactly what you're doing a hundred times over, there are countless others who know JUST enough to be dangerous. I'm sure every plumber or electrician on this site has horror stories about coming in behind some DIY jockey or a flipper and found something that could've gotten someone burned or flooded out of that house.

johnisimpson · 12-08-2008, 11:31 PM

I've seen plenty of scary diy work and I know I haven't seen nearly as much as some of you have, but if the diy'er pulls a permit and the work is properly inspected then that should (IMO) alleviate the problems of sub-par work that isn't up to code. Homeowners will be less likely to try and tackle that bathroom remodel or basement finish if they've had their ass handed to them by an inspector before.

And, while codes do change, Chattanooga's plumbing code is still based on 2003 intl. (possibly updating to 2006 sometime in the next year).

I don't mean to dismiss anyone else's thoughts but I'm guessing that most horror stories never involved permitted work to begin with.

johnisimpson · 12-08-2008, 11:32 PM

also, any plumbers in chattanooga that want to bid my project are now welcome.....

threaderman · 12-09-2008, 07:55 AM

I understand what you're saying John,and you're right,as long as every step involved was performed within code,using approved methods and materials and inspected,then certain ACCESSIBLE installs or repairs seem ok.The 06' codes are quite a bit different than what you're working with now,and I guarantee not many layman will figure these out on thier own,it's an eye-opener,but good for the industry and the public.

copusbuilder · 12-09-2008, 08:11 AM

Hmm, I always thought you could do your own work if it passed inspection and you lived in the house for 18 months?

My true belief is that inspections are primarily a tax. In reality the amount of inspectors that "really inspect" are few and far between.

Don't get me wrong, I think in it's pure form it is a good idea, unfortuantely it is a money machine.
Similiar perhaps to the continuing education courses we must all pay for....that we can't fail.....that require licensed vendors to teach the class....that pay taxes to our States to maintain their licenses.

If I saw these guys actually look at something I might have a different view.

And while I have a hair across my ass......WTF do you inspect on an interior or exterior paint job

You know that one was designed to protect us Sheeple

DavidC · 12-09-2008, 08:39 AM

I agree that if it passes an actual inspection it doesn't matter who did the install. Inspectors that inspect do seem to be a rare bird though.

Now take my opinion, add $1.20 and you can get a cup of coffee.

Good Luck
Dave

rbsremodeling · 12-09-2008, 11:13 AM

I can think of two reasons you cant pull your own permits in those instances

1. to keep you from ****ing up your house and giving/selling it to someone else after your done with it

2. You are not insured if you damage or cause harm to some one else as a result of your work. Your homeowners insurance won't cover the damages either. The electrician, plumber and HVAC insurances will.

johnisimpson · 12-09-2008, 11:35 AM

Respectfully, I still disagree though there are some valid points. My disagreement though is that in making the permitting process more stringent, there will probably be more homeowners and handy men doing work without permits and so more work will go without inspection.

copusbuilder · 12-09-2008, 07:42 PM

I can think of many things in society that are far more dangerous than a house that has been worked on by a homeowner that has been inspected.

I don't see insurance being a major issue for a trades person or a homeowner working on their home for that matter.

rbsremodeling · 12-09-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copusbuilder

I can think of many things in society that are far more dangerous than a house that has been worked on by a homeowner that has been inspected.

I don't see insurance being a major issue for a trades person or a homeowner working on their home for that matter.

Lets say a homeowner/homeowner trades person does some work and it goes wrong.

Lets say the work got inspected and pass for the sake of an argument.

Who pays for the damage??

KillerToiletSpider · 12-09-2008, 07:57 PM

Improperly installed plumbing can endanger an entire town's water supply, not just an individual home, and I have seen cross connections on DIY projects that passed inspection because the inspector wasn't a plumber, sounds to me like the town would rather err on the side of caution.

copusbuilder · 12-09-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsremodeling

Lets say a homeowner/homeowner trades person does some work and it goes wrong.

Lets say the work got inspected and pass for the sake of an argument.

Who pays for the damage??

If it's my house it's either the insurance company or me.

I'm willing to bet I could plumb an addition on my home and it could leak crap everywhere and my homeowners would pick it up.

Keep in mind, many homeowners are more talented than the helpers that are working with little to no supervision.

I could also pose the question, should someone be able to work on their car when they are not certified? Perhaps a tire could come off and injure or kill others? Brakes could fail....seems more likely than someone falliing into a commode and drowning cause the seat was loose. Whose insurance would pay?