Plan Stealing

azee

I spent 3 months designing a house plan for a potential client. He signed my drafting agreement stating that I prohibit any modifications to my plan or taking my plan and bidding it out on their own or with another builder, realtor ect. Now they come back to tell me they found someone to build "their plan" cheaper and that they had the other builder draw up a plan as well-which I would imagine is the same plan that I designed for them with the way they worded things. The builder they are going with is known as a "plan stealer" in my area, except no one has ever called them out on it.
Any suggestions?

Chris Johnson

You can talk with a lawyer but intellectual property of plans is tough and expensive to pursue. Next time contract first for design and get compensated for that then a construction contract to follow.

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Chris

J F

Please tell me you did get paid for the design...or do what Chris says.

joasis

The first hour and sketch are on me, after that, I charge for the plans, etc. You can "loose" a project during the planning stages, as you did, and at least be compensated for the plan.

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genecarp

Are you saying you worked 3 months for free? if that is the case, i am speechless.

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KentWhitten

there's something about changing a plan a certain percentage is OK. I'd contact the AIA to find out how they list it. You might not get friendly responses since you're not an architect, but you've definitely got to go get a lawyer now if you spent 3 months drawing for this guy and not getting paid. If you were with the AIBD, they could have helped you.

You did work for him, he asked for it, he needs to pay for it. And if he builds your house design, you get compensated....of course after you drag him to court.

Think smarter next time, might cost you less. Get money up front first so you're not out so much.

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Warmsmeallup

When we design a radiant system, we get paid for all our time and it can be used as full credit towards the purchase of the system, in entirety and as designed.

Mitch M

I did some basic plans for a client several years ago. The job was way out of the way. I met with her numerous times. Finally decided she could not afford it. A few months later she emails me and starts the dialog again. We talked some more. Finally says she can't do it right now. She also said this was getting her too stressed out and she was taking medication for it. I went by the house a year or so later, even though it was out of the way. Guess what she had done? She built the addition that I designed.

I had another client that wanted me to draw the plans for him. I did some preliminary drawings and we sat down and I was getting ready to start the final when he called me and he said that he found a set of plans of what he wanted and to send him a bill and he would send me a check. Got the check a few days later.

I have changed my policy since then. I get paid when I deliver plans whether I do the job or not. I guess I do not trust people. Contracts are no good sometimes because it will cost more to fight it than to just walk away and that is what most people hope you will do.

hatchet

To help deal with that (because I've had similar problems) I print drawings out of scale and with no dimensions until such a time as I feel comfortable with the people or I get paid or I start construction.
This is stated in my design contract as well, but more CYA is needed in todays market it seems.

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Rich
WIT Construction Co.
Superior MT Contractor

J F

And just so the OP knows, I've done it many times myself...on purpose...when we started, I knew I needed the "practice" with our cad software, so for about 12 months (much longer than 1 year), I did "free" estimates...

...what a GREAT education...prospective clients will value your time just as much as you do...if it's "free" to them...their is NO value associated with the time (and in my case, mucho design work)...END of story...been there, done that...you can stay home/go fishin'/do daddy daycare/etc...and go broke.

don't work for someone for else for "free" to do it...unless you're doing it on purpose

just my opinion, of course

J

nap

so, the bottom line is, what do you want to do. They have obviously breached your agreement. They have also usurped your rights to control your plans.

Speak with an attorney. Not only do you a claim against the former client, you may very well have a claim against the new builder.

You should also speak with the attorney about copyrighting the drawings. You have an automatic copyright merely by creating them but to enforce those rights in court, you must have the copyright registered. It amy be too late for this but in the future, the plans should be copyrighted when created.

If you can still register the copyright, you may have a damages case from that alone.

Cole

I agree, talk to your attorney asap.

I have had similar problems and they have been taken care of in court.

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joasis

The cheapest copyright protection is to have a notary stamp it and date it...indisputable in court and costs next to nothing. An engineer's seal is also a verification.

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finehomes

I certainly hope everyone is using notes like this on their plans when they are doing design work. I have this that automatically prints on the bottom right hand corner of each page of my plans when they print.

THESE DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS SHALL REMAIN THE PROPERTY OF THE DESIGNER AND SHALL NOT BE USED FOR ANY OTHER PROJECTS WITHOUT THE WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE DESIGNER.
THESE DOCUMENTS ARE NOT TO BE REPRODUCED, CHANGED IN ANY FORM OR MANNER WHATSOEVER, NOR TO BE ASSIGNED TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT FIRST OBTAINING THE WRITTEN PERMISSION AND CONSENT OF THE DESIGNER.

Brock

Payment up front period

finehomes

Who on earth would be stupid enough to pay for something they have not gotten yet??? Unless you meant to say payment when you deliver the plans??? I hope thats what you meant.

I get so irritated when I hear contractors talk about asking for deposits before starting a job.... Whenever I have a sub even bring that up I know I am talking to someone that is completely undercapitalized and not worth working with. I only hire subs to work for me that can run a professional enough business to run on net 30 terms like the rest of the world.

azee

In my area there are few builders who charge upfront for the plan. Usually the lumber yard will draw them up for free if you purchase some of your materials from them. I,however, have an independent drafter- much more time effective as the lumber yards take forever. It is hard to ask for a deposit on the plan when few in my area do- it would weed out the customers who were not serious.
I did talk to my lawyer today and he said he just had a call last week from another contractor who had the exact same thing happen with his plan and the same builder who took mine. Legal fees would and the headache make me not want to pursue it. Someone will and should though as these guys keep taking everyone's plan and low balling it. Say a house that most would charge $300,000.00 for they are saying $250,000.00. I don't even know how they could possibly do it for that- my cost is higher than that-and I know I am not overpriced.

finehomes

I know exactly how they do it for that....lots of guys in every area are the same way. They quote a lower than hell price with allowances that will never get the job done just to get the job...and then they hit the people with a million change orders throughout the job and piss the people off. But by then its too late because the job is half done and they have a construction loan that they have signed on and they can't just walk away.

I tell ever prospective client that I know I won't be the lowest bid they get and there is a reason for it and I also explain the game that lots of others play. I also explain that I ONLY do cost plus contracts and why it is a benefit to them and how it saves them money in the long run.

I know this is way off topic now....but I just had to answer that.


Sam

nap

wrong

spend some time at http://www.copyright.gov/
Nevermind. Here is the germane section:

Quote:

<H2>§ 411. Registration and infringement actions10

</H2>

joasis

You missed the point nap....you are correct about a "true" copyright, but if you look at the larger picture, a date that is irrefutable will "prove" when a plan is drawn. See the point?

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