Permits Or No Permits

wackman

Had a job I went to look at yesterday that was just turning a two door garage into a 1 big door garage and the lady really didn't want to get permits. I explained it was better for resale, safety, etc.. but she didn't want the extra cost.

I wouldn't do it of course but it got me wondering, what kind of jobs will you do without a permit? Will you do a bath remodel if it has no structural, electrical or plumbing changes? Will you change someones counters? New roof? At what point do you say "OK this doesn't need a permit"?

Wack

Mike Finley

A quick call to the building dept in the customers jurisdiction will give you the answers to what requires a permit and what doesn't. That's basically how we do it.

HUDSONVALLEYEXT

If your not adding living space you should not need a permit.

C buck

I'm not a builder, so for what its worth, in my area any job costing over $1000 (labor ncluded) needs a permit. You do not need to be licenced either to do plumbing or electrical as long as its a REMODEL, if its a RENOVATION(whatever the diffrence may be, more then a couple rooms?) or new construction you obviously need to be. I just know this from getting permits for my own house through the village.

StormTech

It always seems like a good idea until you get caught. Then after a few times of getting caught the building department guys kinda put you in a class of craftsman you really dont want to be in. I always felt its better to get it out of the way. A right job costs what it costs. If a client wants to sidetrack the permit fees it makes me wonder how they are going to treat me on payday.

wackman

We pretty much permit everything, just to cover our a$$. Our average remodel/renovation is probably around 15k but if we were just going to paint the interior or change a minor cosmetic thing I probably wouldn't get permits. I think the customers who don't want to pay for permits even though it's in THEIR best interest aren't really the kind of customers we're shooting for.

joasis

Unless the single garage doors are under a gabled truss, you are making a substantial change, which is a permit item.....at least in most areas I work in. Of course, a handyman can come along and remove the garage doors and make living space out of it without a permit. I have seen this done....dens with gas waterheaters behind plywood screens....

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marc

Where are YOU from?
Around here....Painting and wallpapering doesn't need a permit
EVERYTHING else does.

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Marc

oldgoat

I know that when you try to sell a house you have to answer if all work was done with permits or not. I know that in my area some will do work at a cheaper price without permits also. I had concrete work for a widening of the driveway done without it, but on the other hand I have done had work done that a permit was included in the contract, but I never saw it posted on the house like it is suppose to be. Depending on how strict your area is I would at a min call to see if it is needed or not. Not worth getting into trouble over a small job and then have to meet the inspector on other jobs.

vwovw

just start the job and tell her she is responsible to get the permit. after a couple days call the zoning and have them come out (anonymously) if your really worried. Here they just fine you a small amount. no biggy. I wouldn't go that route on any other jobs but a garage door job no worries.Just do it right.

wackman

Yeah, I wouldn't even think of it, just to cover my own ass.

Around here they want you to get a permit for just about everything imaginable and I pretty much do. I have been tempted to pass on them for purely cosmetic jobs like tile in a bath or a kitchen freshening but I really just don't want to go down that road.

Of course we have lots of remodeling right now. If business was really slow I might be singing a different song if it meant losing the job that I needed.

RobertCDF

One way to get around this... Is to include the price of the permit in the job to begin with. Then they dont have to worry about the "extra" cost.

I have found people are very open to the "first" price you give them. So include all the upgrades and then work down. Its a lot harder to tell them "thats an upgrade and will cost you $xx" and "the permit price is not included" that makes them think "well I guess I will just skip the permit and that keeps me at the original price.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
Colorado Custom Decks
Custom Composite Decks

boman47k

I like that! Downsell to upsell. Help soften the blow of sticker shock that some experience. Might even give a slight feeling of getting the better of the contractor or talking him/her down on price. Some might call it coming in the backdoor, but I see it as an honest strategy, laying all the options on the table at the getgo. Let them decide what package they want and experience the decrease in cost. Heheh, my daddy would have called that using reverse polarity on them, his bluecollar term for reverse psychology. I still smile when I think remember that.

Stone Mountain

A permit is required here for any deck of any size. Unfortunately, most people don't want to be bothered, especially since it can take 6 weeks to get the permit. If they call me in May for a deck, they simply don't want to wait til July to have it built.
I always tell them, and I offer to do the plans at no extra cost, but they just won't wait.
Out of 100 decks last year we got 7 permits!

__________________
Residential Deck Specialist: Vist our Website
www.fenceanddeck.ca

RobertCDF

That is a major problem with your building department. I think you should go to the head hog and get that fixed. All you have to do is tell them: "If I can get my permits in less than 5 days you would have had $*** more revenue last year based upon the 93 decks that did not get permited and that is just me... what about all the other deck builders?"

Might be bad they might start tracking you down and busting you, but it will be better for all in the end.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
Colorado Custom Decks
Custom Composite Decks

wackman

WOW! 6 weeks for a deck? I get my permits for demoing an old home and building a new one in two weeks and I thought that was a long time.

mdshunk

Takes about 2 minutes for me to get a permit. The permit/no permit issue is not even a matter of discussion with the customer. If the work is permittable, we're just getting a permit and inspections, and that's that. Render unto Ceasar.

Stone Mountain

Beleive me, guys, If I could get permits in one day, 90 % of my customers would have them. It's one thing that sets me apart from the tailgaters. THey don't always know or understand code, and they certainly can't do the drawings.

Some of the municipalities in the area do have in the summer a "fast track" day, where you can get a permit the same day. Typically, they only do it one night a week from 4PM till 8PM, from May 1 till Sept 1, and it's first come first serve.
Before May or after August, there's no such thing, and I've gone before, arriving at 3:30 only to find 8 people in front of me. There's never more than 1 plans examiner, and I'm lucky if I get mine even looked at even if I stay till closing.
Imagine doing this ofr 100 plus decks a season.

Last deck I did with a permit: we dug the holes, then had to wait for inspection for depth (we have to go 4' down here). I had called three days before (they require notice), and asked the inspector to come "after noon". He showed up at 11 AM, and the holes weren't finished. He refused to look at the 5 out of 7 holes that were done. Tells my men to have me schedule another inspection. We call, and make another apointment for 2 days later. Because the crew won't be on site, my wife met him there (The inspector requires a plan on site: they apparently can't bring a copy of the one filed with their own office). She drives out and sits, waiting, in her car. It's raining (lightly)
the inspector doesn't show. She waits 3 hours, comes back to the office. We wait to call the next morning (Friday). Believe it or not, you can ONLY speak to an inspector between 8AM and 9:AM, after which they are on the road, and apparently are not allowed to use cel phones.
Anyway, my wife catches him the day after the rain, and without apology he explains that he didn't come to inspect the holes because it was raining.
She makes another apointment, for the next day (he couldn't go that afternoon as he was already booked). Actualy, it was for Monday. The homeowner is now pissed, because we started the holes on Monday, and this deck is suposed to be finished for a party 8 days later.
FINALLY he gets there Monday afternoon (too late for the crew to go back and set the concrete), looks at the approved plans that Rhonda brought, checks them against the copy he had in his files(!!! if he had acopy why did we have to be there?), and approves the holes.
This is now Monday afternoon. We started a week earlier, and all we wanted was to have 7 holes inspected.
The wood has been on site for a week, and the homeowner is PISSED. Of course, it's my fault. The big party is the following Sunday, and the deck has to be finished by then.
In the end, we more or less made it, but I had the homeowner mad at me, and then at the city, and finally telling me she regretted aplying for the permit in the first place. (it took SEVEN weeks!)

This is typical for ALL the municipapities we work in.
Now you know why I don't encourage people to get permits!

Oh, and by the way: the deck didn't pass final inspection the first two times, because he didn't like the way we made the roof support, even though it was done exactly the way I drew it and the city stamped it. Why didn't he accept it? he "didn't like our solution", even though the plans examiner had approved it.
We made minor changes, and he finaly signed off.

__________________
Residential Deck Specialist: Vist our Website
www.fenceanddeck.ca

Same Old

Canada.

They need to get their **** together. At most it takes about an hour to get a permit for anything less than a new house. Those will take a few days to a week depending on the city. Most cities you can get an inspection the same day if you call in the morning, next day at the most.
My understanding is that the building departments are income generating for the city, they should get up to speed and start cashing in on a more streamlined system.

wackman

That's just ridiculous..