Osha

Debookkeeper

Has anyone ever been fined by Osha? Have you ever had to deal with them? If so - are they reasonable to work with. I was under the impression that if you had any violations, they would submit a letter to you and give you so much time to comply - or you would be fined. I am also under the impression, that owners of the company are exempt. Can anyone enlighten me? And yes... this is a prelude of what I have to deal with tomorrow.

mdshunk

I have not while running my own show, but I have in the past when working for others. Basically, you won't get fined a nickel if you kiss their ass and do everything they say and recommend, whether it's mandated by law or not. They will always give you a proposed fine amount, which I believe is intended to scare you. If you do what they ask for, and seem genuine, the fine will either be zero or almost nothing.

Teetorbilt

I'm sorry that I cannot post my true thoughts on OSHA, Nat would ban me for life.

I have tangled with them a few times over the years and my best advice would be to advise your customer to relocate into a cave and have a business front in another location. The cave should only be accessible by something in a James Bond movie. Sliding mountain parts and fake lakes come to mind.

IMHO, once OSHA finds you, you are out of business. This has happened to a few friends of mine. Once they start their routine inspections, you are doomed.

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You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

CE1

I have many times and IHO Roman Law applies "Guilty until Proven Innocent" and the WW II saying “Loose Lips Sink Ships”. No mater how good you think you have your act together, They are going to find something big or small wrong. The best thing is to make sure that there are a lest two of you who accompany the inspector(s) at all times. One to take notes as to what the inspector(s) say and another to be prepared to fix any problem right on the spot in front of the inspector(s) if it can be done. It looks good if you are willing and able to fix the problem while they are there. DO NOT VOLUNTEERILLY OFFER INFORMATION that was not asked for by the inspector(s), just answer their questions in a VERY courteous manner. Let the inspector(s) ask for what they want.

Good Luck

dayexco

CE1, i keep a tape recorder in my pickup for just that type of occasion. i always ask him to hold his questioning until i get my recorder running.


i've had 3 inspections. first resulted in a fine for not having the ladder extend the proper height over the top of the excavation, and one of my employees was not wearing his hard hat. he was in a machine w/ a rops cab, but got off as soon as he saw the dude walking around with his video camera, walked over to see what he wanted. i had to "write on the blackboard 500 times, I am a bad, bad employer"...not really, but write a letter acknowledging our screw up, and what corrective measures we were going to take to avoid the problem again. they cut the fine in half. 2nd one no violations, 3rd one, i was in the excavation without a hard hat. he started asking me questions, found out i owned the company and hopped in his truck and left.

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someday, i'll be as patient as Nick.

mdshunk

Yeah, that's why you should make all your employees part owners.

dayexco

that doesn't work all the time. my son owns part of my company. the inspector had a list of questions for him to determine his "share" of ownership.

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someday, i'll be as patient as Nick.

rino1494

I deal with a OSHA inspector all the time. He is my father-in-law.

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Life is hard. It is harder when you are stupid

Uncle Sam wants YOU....to speak ENGLISH

Double-A

Take pics of the problems they find, and take notes as they tell you how to correct them. Be nice. The person that comes out is just the inspector, the regional dude is the one that levies the fines and he can use his descretion (my understanding, ask Rino's dad-in-law for more info). The point is, they are there to find problems, any and all of them. Correct what they find and point out, put into place what they ask for.

We used to have OSHA out to the plumbing school twice a year to talk with the apprentices. The person that came was an inspector and their public relations officer for the region. She was great to work with and easy going. She wasn't so concerned with finding problems as getting folks to keep their folks safe and going home in one piece every night. Good outlook, if you ask me. By the way, she would inspect the school every time she came out as well. She never did find a problem there.

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Teetorbilt

An old friend of mine had a successful machine shop in Ft. Laud for many years. He operated out of an old building that he rented. OSHA found him.

The first month it was electrical problems, $3.5K. A few months later it was yellow stripes on the floor and some equipment wasn't spaced correctly, $10K this time. Next time they were down to tongue guards on grinding wheels and minute BS, he closed his doors.

I have a few other great OSHA stories.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Tscarborough

Unless you post his accident rates, Teetor, your statements mean nothing.

OSHA is a PITA, but they do they job they are tasked to do, and it is both difficult and expensive to provide a safe environment for the typical employee. Regardless, that is the responsability of the employer.

I am not a fan of OSHA, but I do understand why it exists.

Teetorbilt

Ts, he never had a reportable accident from 1969 to 1978 which is when he folded.

I really liked Roy, he was part of my recovery after Vietnam. I worked for him part-time.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Tscarborough

It is a sad case, then, but it does happen. During that period, OSHA was new and acted a lot different than they do now. I also have horror stories of OSHA from the early 1970s to the mid 1980s, but they have really changed. They work with contractors now, as a rule, and their mission has changed to partner with contractors to assure a safe work environment, as opposed to back in the day when they seemed intent on being punitive.

I still don't like them, but I have a better opinion of them than I did then.

My guess would be that your friend would have had to spend so much money to update his equipment to "modern" standards that it simply wasn't worth it.

Teetorbilt

Ts, you're right about the equipment, he bought most of it through military auctions in TN. but most of it wasn't THAT old. Some WWII stuff but most Korea or later.

If they ever find me, I'm moving offshore. I'll set up in the Bahamas, they have incentives and their import duties are different.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Tscarborough

Yeah, the equipment worked fine, it just did not meet modern standards of safety. <Shrug> I don't like all the safety "features" we currently have, but they are the law of the land.

Teetorbilt

Move to another land, that's what everybody else is doing. The Bahamas are only 68 miles from me.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

PipeGuy

If you have a 'hearing' tommorrow and this post is the extent of your prep I'd say you're in for a rude awakening about how 'reasonable' OSHA is. What stage of the process exactly are you dealing with?

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Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered for...for just such an emergency. -Foghorn Leghorn

Tscarborough

I have spent enough time in the Bahamas to know that while I like to visit, I do not want to live there.

Teetorbilt

You don't go to the right places or you didn't grow up there. I lived there from '51 to '67, life was the best. I still know of some towns that have changed little since then. Most have electric and A/C now but I still know of a few places where I can go back to the '50's.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Tscarborough

Many moons in Bimini, Cat and a lot of time in Lucaya, Freeport, Nassau and various other ports. It is the best place in the world to visit, but not my idea of a place to live.