Opinions On Spray Foam Insulation

sprayfoamguy

hey all. i am involved in sales and installation of closed cell spray foam insulation, and i was interested in what you folks think about it. pros, cons, any feedback would be appreciated. i am in the new england area.

maj

I posted a similar question awhile back and didn't get much response. I don't think there's too many here who have any experience.

I would like to ask you though, How much does it take to get started in sprayfoam. The equipment, supplies, material, etc...

It's not a common type of insualtion in my area, but would really like to push the issue a little more. My area is real conservative, people don't like to stray from the norm, especially for a product that is more expensive than the norm.

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karma_carpentry

What kind of foam is it? I have experience with Icynene only. But I like it. I think it does its job really well for some applications, and it's cost effective when you consider the labor cost of installing ventilation channels and then fiberglass in a cathedral ceiling. Not needing ventilation channels or vapor barrier seems like a great benefit to me, and also the near-zero air infiltration increases effective insulation value.

Do you cover Boston? What are you charging? Say I wanted a 12 x 14 cathedral shed dormer framed with 2x8 rafters sprayed, and including the walls framed with 2x6 - how much would that be?

I'm also interested in knowing the startup costs like Maj asked.

sprayfoamguy

the great thing about closed cell is that it is water resistant and does'nt have any potential mold issues that could happen as compared to other types of insulation. it is also R-7 per inch, which means that you can get an R-19 in a 2x4 framed wall with 21/2" being sprayed into the cavity. in Ma., with the 7th edition of the IBC coming out, one of the many things that they are focusing on is using an air barrier. this product has one of the highest perm ratings around. start up cost is fairly high, but if you guys want to pm me (i cant' pm you, not enough posts yet ) i would be happy to provide you with any information that you may need.

sprayfoamguy

Karma, it would be 926.00 for what you described.

Teetorbilt

I looked into it years ago and even the top custom homebuilders in the area said that it was too expensive. A guy about 20 mins. N of here started up and promptly went under.

Today, with energy costs spiralling upwards, it should be an easier sell. I still don't think that you're going to sell the GC's on the idea, you're going to have to find a way to get to the HO's and have them spec. it.

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joasis

I'm very interested in any insulation system that works...I too looked into the equipment from Demilac? I believe...and it was a $25,000 investment a few years ago.....We have a few contractors in my area that spray 4 inches for $1.20 a sq/ft or so...little more for 6 and 8 inch.

Since I don't specialize, it would not be worthwhile to have the equipment at the price above, but I wish it was workable for lower dollar, with maybe a lower volume, because I think it will be a big thing in a few years as energy prices spiral up. We own a blower for cellulose, and I would like to expand a little more.

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sprayfoamguy

gc's like the fact that it is water resistant and doesn't lead to mold issues, therefore they don't have any liability issues or call backs that are related to mold. we do alot of work and presentations with architects, both commercial and residential, and work with them to spec in the product. keep an eye on major insulation companies (distributors?) in the near future. these companies that have for years just worked with the pink stuff are working on getting into the spray business. yes the price is a major factor, and probably the only negative as far as the product itself goes (of course you could get some bonehead that doesn't have a clue as far as spraying goes, and then you will have alot of negatives with this stuff), with that being said, it is proven that a homeowner could save up to 50% savings on their energy bills, and that the product will pay for itself in usually a 2-4 year period.

joasis

My distributor for ICF forms built his own home, and used sprayed EPS foam above the ceilings.....the energy savings calculated are amazing..heating and cooling 4800 sq.ft on 2 tons of equipment is awsome.

If the average HO could realize a 50% reduction in energy, it would sell itself.

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maj

That's what I would like to get across to people, but three things count against me........
#1... I'm the worst salesman in the country.
#2... People in my area tend to look at the bottom line for initial cost.
#3... People around here don't like change.

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sprayfoamguy

sell the value, Maj, sell the value!!!

Shawn

I would love to try it in some applications, but it is cost prohibitive.

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IHI

Maj: there is a guy in Denver, IA that builds and sells turn key spray foam businesses that delievers and builds across the country, I cant remember his company name but the guy himself I know personally and not to fond of, but guess he's just busier than heck and hired 3 driver to keep up with delivery and training. You get a trailer with all the eq, and training all in a one shot deal. Last I heard base starting price was $20K for the set-up.

We're going to spray foam an upcoming addition using the closed cell foam, the open cell is cheaper but was half of the R value so we needed to fill wall cavity to obtain where we wanted to be, switching to close cell allowed a touch higher R and still have a little cavity for running wires in the future should he ever need to. The close cell came in at $1.12/sq ft for them to come in and spray, then clean off face of stud surfaces. We're going to get all 3 exterior walls sprayed, as well as under roof deck since it's scissor trusses.

I assume before spraying under roof deck installing poly chutes from soffit to peak and closing off spaces to promote proper air flow from soffit to peak to keep shingles cool is still necessary?? I hope so since I already bought and planned to do that, but I've read other stores where they simply just sprayed the under side period. Would like some input on this aspect if anybody has eperience with it.

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River Rat Dad

A couple problems I see with use in a Cathedral ceiling situation...

At this point I don't believe the codes in my state accomadate a nonvented roof.

Shingle manufactures at this point certainly don't with regard to warranty

sprayfoamguy

the major shingle maufacturers actually extend their warranty with closed cell insulation.

sprayfoamguy

just spray to the sheathing. no vents. you are trying to create a conditioned space that is uniform with the lower levels (more uniform i should say)

IHI

Gotcha, with no real world experience with the spray on I was still thinking I wanted a path way for ambent temp air to circulate under the roof sheeting for passive cooling to the under side of the shingles, but with no attic space underneath in my situation or even with attic space spraying directly to sheeting I guess would insulate the under side of the roof deck from the attic heat too.

Great to hear since this will cut down on material and labor for installing chutes

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sprayfoamguy

exactly. you can eliminate any type of venting ($), build the walls with 2x4 instead of 2x6 and still get R-19 ($$) and the homeowner can cut the size of any kind of compressor for central air/heat in half($$$).

Teetorbilt

Conditioned space is where we will eventually end up at some point in the future. When is anyones guess. $100 a barrel? $125? At what point will GC's start selling efficient homes and demanding it?

The answer goes back to consumer demand. Do they even know that this is available? Homebuilders here don't even offer it as an option and probably wouldn't push the issue as it raises the price of the house.

Somehow you have to make the buyer aware. I would expect the manufacturers to take over, it needs to be a national campaign to educate the public.

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maj

That's why I think it would be a hard sell in my little rural community. Until it becomes more widely accepted as the norm, it won't happen around here.

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