Opinions, Contractor To Contractor??

kpj5br

Hi all,

Looking for uncensored opinions on how to handle this situation, as I have been half of a serious error in judgement.

The story is:

As a contractor myself (specifically IT contractor), I have used the services of a building contracting company a couple times in the recent past on my jobs (the past 15 months). The owner has always done a great job, and very pleasant to work with.

Well, I needed some work done on my own house, so I called up this contractor and asked if he wanted it as I knew he was looking for work. He said absolutely.

He gave me a verbal quote (fixed price) and we "shook hands" over the phone. Here's fatal mistake one: We never did a contract. He just started working on it.

The work did not go well. Turns out he is more of a rough construction type and this was a fine-detail bathroom remodel. After two months of problems, it was time for a serious sit-down meeting.

This also did not go well. He became offended, cut off communication, and a week later I received a submission for payment to him. The "bill" that arrived is for $1500 MORE than the verbal quote. (of course there were no change orders or anything else during the process, and also the job was not completely done)

So, I have been stupid, he has been stupid, and the question is how do we resolve this?

I refuse to be a jerk and simply not pay him, certainly he did work, and I want to pay him a fair price for what he has done (as a side note, I supplied ALL materials, so this is limited to labor costs).

But I also refuse to pay his inflated "bill" that he sent.

I have communicated all of this in email format to him, with zero response back.

Should I:
- just send a check with what I think is fair?
- don't do anything until hearing from him again?
- let this get really out of control and go to court?

I'm really lost here, as all of the work I do has consice contracts with T&Cs and the whole bit, and those are the guiding principals for these cases.

Aside from the lesson learned of don't ever do this again, and ideas/advice?

Thanks

SelfContract

"..So, I have been stupid, he has been stupid, and the question is how do we resolve this?"


No, on the contrary, I think he is a quite smart Azzz... himself!!

You can try bring him to small local court on your own (to avoid attorney fees) if matters is under 10K if he demand again/more, if you have proof! There is paper/forms to pick up at the court. He might deny in his answers to your court summons. Ready to rumble & fight!?

kpj5br

SelfContract, I certainly thank you and appreciate any and all feedback, although I must admit I don't actually understand the details of your statement.

Could you be a little more specific? (i.e. What "proof"? And I'm lost on the meaning of "I think he is a quite smart Azzz... himself!!")

If you could expound on those I would be much appreciative.

Thanks

nadonailer

I've been through a similar situation, and I would advise just paying him what you originally agreed upon (or what he's done to date) None of this is worth going to court over...

__________________
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid”.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

L. B. Condulet

At this point, since he's doing a crappy job and is not even responding to you, I'd just dump him and go to Plan B. Hire someone to finish this. The original contractor has no contract and is too stupid to realize he's not in the driver's seat.

This clod actually thinks he's gonna shoot you a bill, not return your emails and *your* gonna sweat? After messing up this little job?

Hey, you tried to talk to him, but like most contractors, he has no people skills. You gave it your best shot, time to move on.

I'm for working things out with people, but he's left you no other choice.

I would not pay him a freak'n penny either. That should teach him a valuable lesson about the usefulness of contracts. Heck, "contract" is right in the name "contractor". It can't be any more obvious!

SelfContract

kpj5br, Proof = something you can show that he done or not done the work in court.

But anyway, I agree with nadonailer's suggestions. Why not pay him and move on unless he want BIG$$ that you don't have now to pay?.. Or that he screwed up your house real bad that you don't want to pay? The choice is yours. If you want to discuss further, please post the pics here so others can see what he had done and give you more definite answers.

SelfContract

I also agree with L.B Condulet's answer. You need to post pics so we can see what he had done on how much already?

mahlere

man, sometimes you make great points...but is he also like most contractors and completely unable to form sentences that make sense?

kpj5br

Guys, thanks for the great feedback, and SelfContract thanks for clarifying.

As for pics, I'd just rather not, but I will say I consider the job 90% done at this point: All of the rough carpentry is done, and the room is functional, it's the fine-detail (trim, caulking, tile sealing) that is not done.

Would you say to pay 90% of the agreed upon price is fair here? And if I just send a check for that along with a note of explanation (since communication is cut off) does that put me at any weird liability for anything?

Thanks again!

Vinny

I think your in the driver seat here. You can almost do whatever, but I too would pay him for what has been completed correctly and get another contractor(a professional) to complete the job.

But, document the shi& out of it so if he does take you to small claims, you got somthing besides words to show a judge or majistrate

__________________
Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?

L. B. Condulet

Teetorbilt

I know that this is late but why not do a walk-through with him and ask him if this would be acceptable in HIS home?

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Earl1350

What state are you in?
In California you do not have to pay him if you did not sign a contract with all the legal BS
You can also under 7031 ask in court for all monies you paid him To be given back to you
But if you want to be a nice guy hire someone else to fix the problems and deduct that from your bill to the first guy, that would be nice if I were the first guy
Remember no matter what you do he will not be your friend again........

TimelessQuality

Find a more competent contractor to finish the job, deduct his bill from the original 'quote' and pay the difference.


Doh!!! I type too slow!!!

kpj5br

I am in Minnesota.

And yes, I am now clear on the fact he will not be my "friend" again.

My personality will not allow me to "stiff" him, I'm just not that type of person, he did do work and I firmly believe in paying people for efforts, but I also believe it should be fair.

You all have given great advice, I truly appreciate it!

Ed the Roofer

Before you go paying anything, you have to decide if the work to be finished will be done by you or by another contractor.

If another contractor, then send him a certified letter, return receipt, and clearly state the agreed upon verbal contract amount. Inform him that due to breach of performance of contract, you have been forced to hire someone else to fulfill the remaining portion of the contract and that that amoun will be deducted from the originally agreed to verbal contract price.

Then, once that is complete, you should send him a sworn statement at how you arrived at the slightly reduce fee to be paid and include a check for the balance that is now due after the slight reduction for the other contractor.

Then writh Paid In Full on the check, and if he cashes it, he will have accepted those conditions.

Make a copy of the check before you send it, so that he can not alter it or scratch out anything in any way.

That should be reasonably fair and legal for all parties to accept.

Ed

kpj5br

Ed, great details, thank you!

L. B. Condulet

Are you a newly licensed contractor? You sound like one. Anyway, 7031 and the non payment provision apply to unlicensed contractors, not situations where there is no written agreement.

http://law.onecle.com/california/business/7031.html

vconstruction

Some important information was left out. What was the total agreed upon price? If it was like $30,000 and he is $1500 more than that is no big deal at all if it was $2000 and he is that much more than there is a big problem. Seeing as you won't post any pictures I am assuming that the work was not that bad. How do we know if your meeting wasn't because he was telling you that the price was going higher and you refused. We don't really know the facts. From what I read my opinion is that you don't want to pay. You are being like a typical homeowner and wanting to pay what they think is fair and not what the actual worker thinks is fair. Sorry but that is how I see it.

mxim

thats why alot of contractors are always broke ;they are great with their hands but horrible businessman.think about it! they can be arrogant and unreasonable and then wonder why they can't find work.pay the guy what you owe him but do not let the guy push you around. walk up to him man to man and tell him to get lost because he took on a job he should have known he was'nt qualified to do.