This One Takes The Cake - So Far
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:50 AM   #41
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

I would recommend my competition to him. That's what these types of clients are for.

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Old 02-12-2009, 10:51 AM   #42
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

Thanks, and I'll still sit on it for a day or two (we replied first thing after receipt of his email that we would be reviewing his "process")
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:01 AM   #43
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

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Originally Posted by J F View Post
"Hi ***xx,

Thank you for your recent email. After carefully reading through your attached renovation process, while we appreciate being considered as your contractor of choice, we are going to have to regretfully decline to continue to be involved in your vetting process.

I wanted you to know as soon as possible, to help you in your further decision making process, regarding both the design phase as well as the build phase.

We wish you luck with your project and hope it turns out to be a beautiful and useful addition to your home.

Sincerley,

me
my company"

You neglected to leave the door open ....


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My guess is he'll read that and you'll be the one he wants to hire the most. Becuase by rejecting him, you've shown that you are of more quality than anyone else he's talking to about this. Just my guess.
....more than anything, people want what they cannot have.

Leaving the door ajar keeps people interested....

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Old 02-12-2009, 11:05 AM   #44
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

"You neglected to leave the door open ...."







Hell, if I leave it open, he might sneak through....
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:16 AM   #45
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

ehhh. Good luck
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:16 AM   #46
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

So he wants to bring down the price but raise quality?:whistlin g
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:18 AM   #47
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

Yeah, interesting combination, huh? I don't have that one figured out quite yet, but I'll post when I do...
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:19 AM   #48
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

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"You neglected to leave the door open ...."







Hell, if I leave it open, he might sneak through....
He'll find some desperate fool to take the work on his terms, and the job will go in the sh!tter sure as hell. When that contractor abandons the job to cut his losses, and the site sits half-finished and idle, this guy will think of you and call you and probably dog you to death to come and take a look and give him a price to finish.

And you know what I think? This HO will have the same mind-set towards cleaning up the mess that he has now at the start. The same set of ridiculous demands and "surplus materials" and "hungry subs" and on and on.

I'll bet there are a lot of guys on this forum that have been called out to give an estimate on jobs where the original contractor busted out and left.
In my experience with that, I can see waht happened as soon as I hit the job site.

I can see if it was the HO who was such a PITA that things went sour, or the contractor was a flake and a foul-up. If it's the HO that seems to be the problem, the red flags are always still flying high.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:23 AM   #49
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

that whole email raised every red flag I have.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:33 AM   #50
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

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that whole email raised every red flag I have.

yep, me too.... just got off amazon...ordered a couple of extra cases...
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:35 AM   #51
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

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He'll find some desperate fool to take the work on his terms, and the job will go in the sh!tter sure as hell. When that contractor abandons the job to cut his losses, and the site sits half-finished and idle, this guy will think of you and call you and probably dog you to death to come and take a look and give him a price to finish.

And you know what I think? This HO will have the same mind-set towards cleaning up the mess that he has now at the start. The same set of ridiculous demands and "surplus materials" and "hungry subs" and on and on.

I'll bet there are a lot of guys on this forum that have been called out to give an estimate on jobs where the original contractor busted out and left.
In my experience with that, I can see waht happened as soon as I hit the job site.

I can see if it was the HO who was such a PITA that things went sour, or the contractor was a flake and a foul-up. If it's the HO that seems to be the problem, the red flags are always still flying high.
And of course this all has been my take from the start...run run run...but I always like to think it through some more, get some more opinions and let it stew for awhile...but damn, this has to be the most straightforward, do not pass go, go directly to jail set-up that I've personally come across...I'll let you know when I pick up the design check...
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:47 AM   #52
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

Jump on the Harley and ride as fast as you can away from this. The email says it all. The PITA factor is gonna be high on this one. I agree with the rest, there is no way to go but down on this one. We get a lot like him around here, mostly automotive or tech engineers that think that because they can design a tail light gives them complete knowledge in house design and construction, much superior to yours. They love to dictate policy and write big-worded documents and make us under-educated contractors bend over backwards for them.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:54 AM   #53
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

Once in awhile we have commercial project managers from IT coming in to see us with this same approach. (We're not far from Silicon Valley.)

They take a fair amount of time to educate ("No, we don't get seven bids and take the cheapest. We go with the professionals who do the work right. No, we're not bidding for free. Look at our previous projects and let us show you how we put a project together.") This takes a secondary meeting with the clients to go over all the red flags. ie. hungry AND professional does not mean charity--we want to be around for a long time; no riding of suppliers; no pre-drawing of plans or scoping out the price and why. Let's talk about what you mean by cheapest...etc. (Don't get me started about free and discounted! ) Mantra: "This isn't our approach and let me show you why..."

We've ended up with more than a few of these and they've been nice clients. If they're reasonable, you can turn them around. (You can tell the types.) If it's their road or nothing, then at the end of the meeting, I tell them we're probably not the company for them and wish them luck.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:59 AM   #54
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

He wants that quality of work and thinks that 10 contractors in that area can do it? And basically wants the lowest price!!!

I second everyone else, run like the wind boy!

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Old 02-12-2009, 12:10 PM   #55
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

That is the kind of work I would like to bid on. But no way to do it at bargain basement prices. That is tome shelf work and need to commend a top shelf price. Way beyond the scope of the work it took to produce/install it. There is definitely a value added price into work like that. I like the way you worded your response/rejection. I do agree that it should be worded slightly different to leave the door open if this guy ever comes to his senses and opens up the purse strings. Which of course is highly unlikely.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:23 PM   #56
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

Hey Jay, I found you over at WoodWeb. You stalking me?

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Old 02-12-2009, 12:28 PM   #57
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

That was a rough/first draft, so it can be changed.....maybe....
...we'll see how I feel about it later today.

In his "process" he states he will be making a choice on to hire for the design phase by the Feb 15...Sat. So if I am going to decline (strongly leaning that way), as a professional, I would like to give him the "out" of not calling to hire us only to be told, no thanks...probably doesn't deserve it, but that's the way to do it.

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Old 02-12-2009, 12:34 PM   #58
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

Jay,
Yes, I'm stalking you from other sites. I had not seen the pictures. I now think you should offer him your services at a high hourly fee. Designing or building or just holding his hand, make him pay you to indulge in his personality disorder. Biggest red flag - he's unemployed. You have got to be kidding me. You better bill him at the end of every day c.o.d.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:35 PM   #59
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

Hell Tom, I think I would need to bill him at the start of every day...
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:15 PM   #60
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Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

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We received the pdf (highlights are mine) below in an email from a prospective client over-night. My first reaction was ....run run run...but my after a few minutes i was more like run faster, run faster...

I'm not sure if my brain (business sense, hopefully) can overcome the strong gut feeling of red flag city....

We are obviously one of the ten contractors this couple is talking to....
And i'll bet we're the only one who doesn't do "free" estimates (it's amazing they're still keeping us in the loop).

Went out and did the meet 'n greet 2-3 weeks ago (not me personally, but my lovely assistant). After the meeting the client was told it would be $2,700 for the design work/quote...a basement finish in a home thats probably about $1.5 mil...project may run 150-250k...until you read the attached pdf.

Hadn't really heard much from him (we did follow up 2 times after meeting) other than he was meeting with other contractors.

Part of me respects the guy for being well organized and brutally honest about wanting us to beat up on subs/suppliers (and in turn be beat up by the "client" as well).

There may be some of you who would look upon this as an opportunity...i just haven't gotten there yet...

He was obviously paying attention the my better half as some of the items on his "wish list" were straight out of our meeting...dust control, detailed plans, etc.)

who knows, maybe 6 months from now, i'll be writing about how he's been the best client we've ever had (if we're "fortunate" enough to be the chosen one...).

I kind of have the feeling that he's leaning towards us....for the design work, as i'm not aware of many who do as much detail, pretty 3-d renderings etc....but i'm already thinking of either tripling the design fee or finding the best/most professional way to bow out...i know, i'm a chicken...

on a funny note, the original attach. He sent was a word doc....i've thought about changing all the price/beat up crap to...."we would like you to work only with the highest quality subs/suppliers who can make an actual profit on the project in order to provide the quality we are seeking...." ...and emailing it back saying we would love to take on his project under these conditions...

Hope he's not emailing his "process" to every homeowner in the country..

Oh well, made for some nice reading first thing in the a.m....

J
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