This One Takes The Cake - So Far

480sparky · 02-12-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J F

............I don't feel it would be of any benefit to get into the reasons why, as I think it would have the possibility of turning into a pissing match and I feel no need to vent or get into anything of the sort, at least not with a homeowner.

J

Absolutely perfect. Send it and don't look back.

Aggie67 · 02-12-2009, 09:49 AM

He's basically describing a design-build gig, with continuous value engineering. The thing that's crazy isn't the fact that he's being demanding. It's that he's involving 4 firms all the way up to construction, trying to bid shop a design build project. If he wants design build, he should solicit design-build bids. If not, then he should pay someone to put plans together so everyone bids on the same set. If the bidders find ways to value engineer some of it, they should only give the dollars saved, not the details.

I get similar design-build specs, but they're professionally written. You put your best number forward with a good description of scope and detail, and have a clause that the first round of prints will be available after project award. I don't give out prints unless I have the PO in my hands.

OCRS · 02-12-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J F

Here's what I'm mulling for a reply...please feel free to critique, always glad to hear others' opinions...

"Hi ***xx,

Thank you for your recent email. After carefully reading through your attached renovation process, while we appreciate being considered as your contractor of choice, we are going to have to regretfully decline to continue to be involved in your vetting process.

I wanted you to know as soon as possible, to help you in your further decision making process, regarding both the design phase as well as the build phase.

We wish you luck with your project and hope it turns out to be a beautiful and useful addition to your home.

Sincerley,

me
my company"

I don't feel it would be of any benefit to get into the reasons why, as I think it would have the possibility of turning into a pissing match and I feel no need to vent or get into anything of the sort, at least not with a homeowner.

J

Very professional.

greg24k · 02-12-2009, 09:54 AM

I don't see anything wrong with that, unless one knows he cannot complete a basement the way a customer wants it done and to his satisfaction. Don't read all that none sense. Break down the job, cover your overhead, your profit and submit an estimate. Make your estimate so the homeowner gets what he wants, and everything else will be done by your rules. After all, you are the contractor, and you will be doing the job, not the homeowner. Never look at things that look scarry, everything is about how you run your business and most importantly how you structure your contract, everything else is none sense like the PDF file you got.

The only jobs I walk away is when I give an estimate, and homeowner shows me another and tells me "if you beat it, you got it". I will walk away from that. I will not drop $100 to get a job, that someone else put his time to prep that estimate. I am old school and I respect principles, they never did me wrong.

I know what I am capable of, I know my contractors, I know I can do a basement in my sleep and I will get paid for my labor, my knowledge, and the price will be what I want not what someone else wants for the same job.

Good luck

J F · 02-12-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg24k

The only jobs I walk away is when I give an estimate, and homeowner shows me another and tells me "if you beat it, you got it". I will walk away from that. I will not drop $100 to get a job,

Good luck

We are pretty much ASSURED (from HIS specs) that this is going to happen on every single item considered....

J F · 02-12-2009, 09:59 AM

I've got to resize some pics he sent out awhile back as to what he's looking at doing...

Heritage · 02-12-2009, 10:07 AM

Hi ******,

Thank you for your recent email. After having carefully reviewed your requirements, we are unfortunately unable to provide our services to you at this time. It appears that your recent lack of occupation, combined with an unrealistic perception of reality and overindulgent reasoning abilities has disqualified you from meeting our "sanity" clause criterion in our nifty handbook that WE published...entitled "The process of a Contractor". You see? You're not the only one that published "guides".

In closing, the earth is round, the sun is bright, and you sir....are a jackass.

Sincerely Yours,
From the J to the Eff! Peace!

J F · 02-12-2009, 10:10 AM

greg24k · 02-12-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J F

We are pretty much ASSURED (from HIS specs) that this is going to happen on every single item considered....

The best way I learned to deal with customers who like to have all that attention, is to charge for it. This why to have the right contract is so important. It specifies A and a customer wants B, this is how much it will cost extra. If you framing a basement according to the plan a customer signed, and he wants to add a closet its fine, you tell the customer I will not charge you for framing, all you have to pay for is shelving and installation. If customer breaks your OO for every item, ching$ ching$.
We all know on extras we make best money, so when you got a client who is willing to spend, give him what he asks for, if he only runs his mouth and he wants this and that, show him the contract. If homeowner takes control of the job, you screwed, you can sing and dance they got you by your OO

It is very easy my friends, like a walk in the park.

J F · 02-12-2009, 10:12 AM

Not that it matters a whole lot in the general scheme here, but here are some samples of what they would like to see in the basement...

wallmaxx · 02-12-2009, 10:13 AM

JF

Nice, succinct, professional.
Send it.
Maybe he'll learn that as contractors...it is WE who evaluate leads to see if WE want his kind of people to be OUR clients.

Little known fact. The customer is not the king in the relationship. We are presenting our unique way of providing a product / service, as compared to all the others out there doing the same thing (bidding against us).

I am keeping your verbiage in case I need a pro way out of a similar situation. Thanks.

J F · 02-12-2009, 10:13 AM

a couple more...

greg24k · 02-12-2009, 10:21 AM

JF

Beautiful work. Charge and don't be afraid, because I can see, you can deliver. If I do anything in your back yard, you be the first one I call.

J F · 02-12-2009, 10:32 AM

I'd like to take credit for the work greg, but these pics are from another open house in their neighborhood that they would like to emulate...we can do it...but not at "forclosure" prices...

Bodger · 02-12-2009, 10:35 AM

Send that rejection letter. You know anybody that takes this job will suffer miserably at the hands of this anal jag-off.

My guess is he'll read that and you'll be the one he wants to hire the most. Becuase by rejecting him, you've shown that you are of more quality than anyone else he's talking to about this. Just my guess.

Yeah, hire "hungry" subs he says. Like Jacklegs maybe.

You see this for what it is and that will eat away at this jerk.

Knighton · 02-12-2009, 10:36 AM

Send it!! However, your elegant, yet unassuming declination might be cause for him to insist on you doing the job?

I bet it would suck a** working for that guy!! Some things just aren't worth it!

J F · 02-12-2009, 10:37 AM

If anyone sees foreclosed, fine craftsmanship laying around that can be installed perfectly to look like it was custom made for this home, please email me at nowayjay@imanidiot.com....gracias...

greg24k · 02-12-2009, 10:37 AM

Amen JF

J F · 02-12-2009, 10:38 AM

You guys are right, he might take it as "playing hard to get" and just have to have me....ahhhhhhhhhhhh....I think my prom dress is still at the cleaners though..

Kaiser · 02-12-2009, 10:49 AM

That's great reply. As much as I want to tell those types to kiss my giant lilly white a** a professional response may get you a lead down the road.

Well Done.

02-12-2009, 09:49 AM	#22
Aggie67 View Profile Aggie67 Structural Engineer Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (513) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Structural Engineer Trade: Mechanical, Structural Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 513	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far He's basically describing a design-build gig, with continuous value engineering. The thing that's crazy isn't the fact that he's being demanding. It's that he's involving 4 firms all the way up to construction, trying to bid shop a design build project. If he wants design build, he should solicit design-build bids. If not, then he should pay someone to put plans together so everyone bids on the same set. If the bidders find ways to value engineer some of it, they should only give the dollars saved, not the details. I get similar design-build specs, but they're professionally written. You put your best number forward with a good description of scope and detail, and have a clause that the first round of prints will be available after project award. I don't give out prints unless I have the PO in my hands.

02-12-2009, 09:54 AM	#24
greg24k View Profile greg24k General Contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,796) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (10) Toolbox (0) View All Activity General Contractor Trade: New Home Construction-Additions-Remodeling Join Date: May 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,796	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far I don't see anything wrong with that, unless one knows he cannot complete a basement the way a customer wants it done and to his satisfaction. Don't read all that none sense. Break down the job, cover your overhead, your profit and submit an estimate. Make your estimate so the homeowner gets what he wants, and everything else will be done by your rules. After all, you are the contractor, and you will be doing the job, not the homeowner. Never look at things that look scarry, everything is about how you run your business and most importantly how you structure your contract, everything else is none sense like the PDF file you got. The only jobs I walk away is when I give an estimate, and homeowner shows me another and tells me "if you beat it, you got it". I will walk away from that. I will not drop $100 to get a job, that someone else put his time to prep that estimate. I am old school and I respect principles, they never did me wrong. I know what I am capable of, I know my contractors, I know I can do a basement in my sleep and I will get paid for my labor, my knowledge, and the price will be what I want not what someone else wants for the same job. Good luck __________________ I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

02-12-2009, 09:59 AM	#26
J F View Profile J F You did what?? Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,601) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity You did what?? Trade: Carpenter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North of Atlanta Posts: 6,601	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far I've got to resize some pics he sent out awhile back as to what he's looking at doing...

02-12-2009, 10:10 AM	#28
J F View Profile J F You did what?? Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,601) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity You did what?? Trade: Carpenter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North of Atlanta Posts: 6,601	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far

02-12-2009, 10:12 AM	#30
J F View Profile J F You did what?? Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,601) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity You did what?? Trade: Carpenter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North of Atlanta Posts: 6,601	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far Not that it matters a whole lot in the general scheme here, but here are some samples of what they would like to see in the basement... Attached Thumbnails

How to effectively use customer testimonials - even if you onl...

Green Framing Presentation - Updated

Greenlee Glo-Stix...

DeWalt Self-Level...

This One Takes The Cake - So Far

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02-12-2009, 10:13 AM	#31
wallmaxx View Profile wallmaxx I used to think so....... Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,203) Photos (6) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity I used to think so....... Trade: My words are OPINIONS and hold no REAL value. 2012 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: WA State Posts: 2,203	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far JF Nice, succinct, professional. Send it. Maybe he'll learn that as contractors...it is WE who evaluate leads to see if WE want his kind of people to be OUR clients. Little known fact. The customer is not the king in the relationship. We are presenting our unique way of providing a product / service, as compared to all the others out there doing the same thing (bidding against us). I am keeping your verbiage in case I need a pro way out of a similar situation. Thanks.

02-12-2009, 10:21 AM	#33
greg24k View Profile greg24k General Contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,796) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (10) Toolbox (0) View All Activity General Contractor Trade: New Home Construction-Additions-Remodeling Join Date: May 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,796	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far JF Beautiful work. Charge and don't be afraid, because I can see, you can deliver. If I do anything in your back yard, you be the first one I call. __________________ I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

02-12-2009, 10:32 AM	#34
J F View Profile J F You did what?? Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,601) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity You did what?? Trade: Carpenter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North of Atlanta Posts: 6,601	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far I'd like to take credit for the work greg, but these pics are from another open house in their neighborhood that they would like to emulate...we can do it...but not at "forclosure" prices...

02-12-2009, 10:35 AM	#35
Bodger View Profile Bodger Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,432) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,432	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far Send that rejection letter. You know anybody that takes this job will suffer miserably at the hands of this anal jag-off. My guess is he'll read that and you'll be the one he wants to hire the most. Becuase by rejecting him, you've shown that you are of more quality than anyone else he's talking to about this. Just my guess. Yeah, hire "hungry" subs he says. Like Jacklegs maybe. You see this for what it is and that will eat away at this jerk.

02-12-2009, 10:36 AM	#36
Knighton View Profile Knighton Wasting Time Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (140) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Wasting Time Trade: Remodeling Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 140	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far Send it!! However, your elegant, yet unassuming declination might be cause for him to insist on you doing the job? I bet it would suck a** working for that guy!! Some things just aren't worth it!

02-12-2009, 10:37 AM	#37
J F View Profile J F You did what?? Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,601) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity You did what?? Trade: Carpenter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North of Atlanta Posts: 6,601	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far If anyone sees foreclosed, fine craftsmanship laying around that can be installed perfectly to look like it was custom made for this home, please email me at nowayjay@imanidiot.com....gracias...

02-12-2009, 10:38 AM	#39
J F View Profile J F You did what?? Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,601) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity You did what?? Trade: Carpenter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North of Atlanta Posts: 6,601	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far You guys are right, he might take it as "playing hard to get" and just have to have me....ahhhhhhhhhhhh....I think my prom dress is still at the cleaners though..

02-12-2009, 10:49 AM	#40
Kaiser View Profile Kaiser Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (254) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Project Management Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pensacola, Fl Posts: 254	Re: This One Takes The Cake - So Far That's great reply. As much as I want to tell those types to kiss my giant lilly white a a professional response may get you a lead down the road. Well Done. __________________ "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." Henry David Thoreau**

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