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02-12-2009, 07:47 AM
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#1
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where did everybody go?
Trade:
Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 3,883
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This one takes the cake - so far
We received the pdf (highlights are mine) below in an email from a prospective client over-night. My first reaction was ....RUN RUN RUN...but my after a few minutes I was more like RUN FASTER, RUN FASTER... 
I'm not sure if my brain (business sense, hopefully) can overcome the STRONG gut feeling of Red Flag City....
We are obviously one of the TEN contractors this couple is talking to... .
and I'll bet we're the only one who doesn't do "free" estimates (it's amazing they're still keeping us in the loop).
Went out and did the meet 'n greet 2-3 weeks ago (not me personally, but my lovely assistant). After the meeting the client was told it would be $2,700 for the design work/quote...a basement finish in a home thats probably about $1.5 mil...project may run 150-250k...until you read the attached pdf.
Hadn't really heard much from him (we did follow up 2 times after meeting) other than he was meeting with other contractors.
Part of me respects the guy for being well organized and brutally honest about wanting us to beat up on subs/suppliers (and in turn be beat up by the "client" as well).
There may be some of you who would look upon this as an opportunity...I just haven't gotten there yet... 
He was obviously paying attention the my better half as some of the items on his "wish list" were straight out of our meeting...dust control, detailed plans, etc.)
Who knows, maybe 6 months from now, I'll be writing about how he's been the best client we've ever had (if we're "fortunate" enough to be the chosen one...  ).
I kind of have the feeling that he's leaning towards us....for the design work, as I'm not aware of many who do as much detail, pretty 3-d renderings etc....but I'm already thinking of either tripling the design fee or finding the best/most professional way to bow out...I know, I'm a chicken... 
On a funny note, the original attach. he sent was a word doc....I've thought about changing all the price/beat up crap to...."we would like you to work only with the highest quality subs/suppliers who can make an actual profit on the project in order to provide the quality we are seeking...." ...and emailing it back saying we would LOVE to take on his project under these conditions...
Hope he's not emailing his "process" to every homeowner in the country..
Oh well, made for some nice reading first thing in the a.m....
J
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02-12-2009, 07:56 AM
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#2
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Curmudgeon
Trade:
carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 11,701
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Good luck with that guy.
I'm not desperate enough......
yet.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
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02-12-2009, 07:58 AM
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#3
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Deck Designer/Builder
Trade:
Deck Design & Construction
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Posts: 2,240
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Run Forest Run.
I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. And, like you said, I'd increase the price of the design work. You KNOW that if you do the design that the owner AND contractor will be hounding you until that basement is done.
IF, and that's a big IF, you were to take the job you've got to set the record straight before you bid and tell them they're setting themselves up for an inferior finished project. There's so much wrong with their thought process I wouldn't know where to start.
__________________
I am the liquor - Jim Lahey, Trailer Park Supervisor
www.decksetc.ca
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02-12-2009, 08:03 AM
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#4
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where did everybody go?
Trade:
Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 3,883
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I'm in total agreement with you guys...I just didn't know if I should be scared or impressed with this guy...right now I'm just kind of disgusted with his thought process...but that's not being business-minded, just being a person....
J
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02-12-2009, 08:20 AM
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#5
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Pro
Trade:
Lic. GC/Remodr - Commercial/Residential/Industrial
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 2,674
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I'd run so fast.
I refuse to work for any one that is that anal about their savings. It's a big red flag about the entire project. They would be leaning over your shoulder, and questionsing every purchase, every extra cut-off, and every sub-contractor's action...there would be a challenge about every decision you make.
HEAD-ACHE CENTRAL
Run like heck = far away...
__________________
- Build Well -
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02-12-2009, 08:24 AM
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#6
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where did everybody go?
Trade:
Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 3,883
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Anyone looking for a headach....er, project in the atlanta area? ....for a small fee I can put you in the running...
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02-12-2009, 08:26 AM
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#7
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Steve
Trade:
Residential Renovations
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sarsfield, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 788
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It wouldn't be so bad as long as they paid you a 2nd fee to PM the job. That way every morning you can argue with yourself in the mirror and get paid for it.
(just bring 2 hats to the job so they won't know)  
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02-12-2009, 08:30 AM
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#8
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Deck Designer/Builder
Trade:
Deck Design & Construction
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Posts: 2,240
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I love the line "Look for cost saving ideas - recommend materials you have in surplus for example" - because you know ALL those surplus materials are FREE 
__________________
I am the liquor - Jim Lahey, Trailer Park Supervisor
www.decksetc.ca
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The Following User Says Thank You to DecksEtc For This Useful Post:
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02-12-2009, 08:37 AM
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#9
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Pompass Ass
Trade:
Certified Building and Certified A/C Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Plant City, Florida
Posts: 2,091
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I wonder what this HO does for a living.
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02-12-2009, 08:42 AM
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#10
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where did everybody go?
Trade:
Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 3,883
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I believe during the meeting he said he was "unemployed", whether that means out of work or retired (50's) he has TOO much time on his hands obviously...he must of done well somewhere to be in this house...slave trade maybe ? 
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02-12-2009, 08:44 AM
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#11
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strat hd
Trade:
framing contractor , remodeler , GC occasionally
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,697
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Change orders ? He would probably get the boxing gloves out.
__________________
There's a bailout coming but it's not for me. It's for all those creeps watching tickers on TV.
There's a bailout coming but it's not for you. It's for all those creeps
hiding what they do. Neil Young - Fork in the road.
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02-12-2009, 08:48 AM
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#12
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where did everybody go?
Trade:
Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 3,883
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nah, he'll want a clause in the contract that there are to be NO change orders...all extra work is free (or a fee is paid to HIM for it)..
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02-12-2009, 09:00 AM
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#13
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Pro
Trade:
Framing
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Utica,NY
Posts: 1,122
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I wonder what this HO does for a living
Engeneer?
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02-12-2009, 09:07 AM
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#14
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A bit abrasive.
Trade:
Painting
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: KC KS/MO
Posts: 1,494
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I just punched my monitor.
__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.
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02-12-2009, 09:07 AM
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#15
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where did everybody go?
Trade:
Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 3,883
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Bingo....JUST found out (my lovely is getting in some hot water  ) he's a software engineer.....so he's going to love writing up all these "reports", etc....on everything, plus he's unemployed, this all equals too much time (and enjoyment) in infinite details...and I like to think I'm pretty detail oriented, but there is a limit....
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02-12-2009, 09:08 AM
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#16
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LRG WoodCrafting
Trade:
Professional Sawdust Producer
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA, Connecticut
Posts: 6,451
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In the second to last line on the second page it says "Tell the whole truth" I advise you to do so. Tell them they are frick'n out of their mind if they think you would be doing all this under their rules for lowest bid. Back and forth for up to 4 weeks? Hell, thats $10K that they will probably expect for free.
Back away slowly, don't loose eye contact, never loose eye contact until the truck is in drive, then floor it Forrest......
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02-12-2009, 09:12 AM
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#17
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And I do electrical, too!
Trade:
DEFENDER OF FREEDOM! ADVOCATE OF LIBERTY!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,645
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Run, Forrest! Run!
__________________
Do you realize that in 40 years, we'll have millions of old ladies running around with lower back tattoos and pierced navels?
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02-12-2009, 09:17 AM
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#18
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where did everybody go?
Trade:
Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 3,883
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I could use the exercise....
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02-12-2009, 09:38 AM
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#19
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Pro
Trade:
Carpenter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Louis Area, MO
Posts: 104
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This guy probably has a print out process to go to the can.
__________________
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy".  - Uncle Red form the Red Green Show
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02-12-2009, 09:47 AM
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#20
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where did everybody go?
Trade:
Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 3,883
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Here's what I'm mulling for a reply...please feel free to critique, always glad to hear others' opinions...
"Hi ***xx,
Thank you for your recent email. After carefully reading through your attached renovation process, while we appreciate being considered as your contractor of choice, we are going to have to regretfully decline to continue to be involved in your vetting process.
I wanted you to know as soon as possible, to help you in your further decision making process, regarding both the design phase as well as the build phase.
We wish you luck with your project and hope it turns out to be a beautiful and useful addition to your home.
Sincerley,
me
my company"
I don't feel it would be of any benefit to get into the reasons why, as I think it would have the possibility of turning into a pissing match and I feel no need to vent or get into anything of the sort, at least not with a homeowner.
J
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