No Prints.. What Info For Bids?

realpurty2

I can't count the number of times we've been asked to bid or do work with no prints and little or no information. We try to ask enough questions to get a ballpark together then submit the formal bid once we get more details.

Now I have to put the shoe on the other foot and send out a RFQ on a project that we have no prints for and only the basic of details. If you were a subcontractor being asked for a rough estimate on a project, what information would you like to have included in the RFQ for a new construction addition?

I know the question is as vague as the project details are , but I've drawn a blank for some reason. Plumbers, HVAC, Framers and masons in particular, but any info is appreciated.

__________________
Woman in a Man's World.

mdshunk

Plumbing, electric, and HVAC is easier. "Wire/Plumb/Install ***x per code." Framing would need a meeting with each bidder and a walk through.

I hate these sort of RFQ's. The proposal needs to be way detailed, like, "I will install up to xx receptacles, xx switches, xx exit signs,", etc.

Oh, you asked what information I'd like to have? A set of prints. Lacking that, a pencil sketch with notations would be better than nothing.

Touch of Color

I am wanting more information on painting new house. There is a lot of "new" comtruction in the Katy area. Is there anyone out there who knows more information or good advice on how to get my foot in the door with a contract like that? I have been doin a lot of resdiential painting projects but noticed a drop this month. The new homes painters always seem busy all year around

alter_ego

I agree.... I wish I could get my customers to understand, If you want me to give you an estimate on a room addition and extend your kitchen though a load bearing wall into the new sqft on the back of your house, I have to know how large of an addition you want and some idea of the kitchen and bathroom layout.....

They want prices for something with no drawings or even descisions made as to what they want.

What blows me away is that I go out and try to help them define these goals and explain that even scetches on a coctail napkin would help me start some drawings and build a quote, Then I find out later that someone else came out and gave them a "quote" and now I am out of the running on the job.

I don;t now how this works. When I ask if they provided the other contractors with more information than they gave me they say "no he just told me what it would cost and you didn't". How can I compete with this?

How can the HO honestly belive they are getting a "quote" on something they cant define. This is one of my biggest challenges in business. I feel like they think I don't know what I'm doing because I can't walk in and spout out a number in fifteen minutes for an undetermined addition and remodel.

I have been trying to get money on the fromt end for drawing to be prepaired by an archetect but so far am loosing every job to someone who plucks a number from air.

mdshunk

I guess that's sorta what they call "design-build". If ther person has no idea, you slap some basic concept together and quote it. If it's not what they want, then you go from there. Get's 'spensive for both parties that way.

denick

realpurty2,

There's a lot everyone would like and could ask about. There's something you can try with every bid even when you have a print.

You or Ken sit with paper and pencil and imagine what you going to build. Take each trade and walk through the work in your mind.

Example, electric; underground work? service? sub panel? wiring?
outlets? switches? Telephone? Cable? etc.
masonry; footing, concrete, block, brick, etc.

Try making a rough sketch as you think it through. Just look around the house your in and take each room and look at the parts. Go down the cellar and look at the mechanicals. Take a plan off the shelf of something similar as something to prompt your thought. Take pictures of the site before hand and you them as prompts.

Write it out in plain language. just as it comes to mind. Send what you come up with to your sub and explain the situation. Ask them to make comments about what's needed. If they are good subs to you they should not mind and I think it's there best interest to quantify it as they do the work. Have them give the bid on what you come up with. Then take that spec you used and put it in your proposal and contract.

You could try posting it here if you would want some more help.

__________________
Nick

"Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving" Albert Einstein

alter_ego

Yeppers!

realpurty2

By knowing your basic job cost for certain type projects before you even go visit the site or atleast as soon as you get the lead start researching them. Sure you will have to work on a true accurate estimate afterwards, but you get to feel around if you are within your customer's budget at the same time. Sit down and make yourself a list of the type projects you do, standardize them and you'll have a better idea of job cost to be able to give preliminary bids.

Using this 2 room addition I posted about as example.. the H.O. has no prints or specifics other than she wants a laundry room and an additional bedroom. She doesn't have specific sizes in mind as long as it meets her needs. Before we ever met with her, we knew for a basic two room addition the price would start around 25k and go upward depending on specifics. That rough estimate was in her ballpark so she started giving us more details and we were able to come back with a firm bid of 31k for what she wants done. Contract signed, job starts in a few weeks. The 31k is if we did the entire job within the company. Now I am about to send out RFQ's to see if we can trim cost by subcontracting out certain portions of the project. If we get bids that decrease the price, great! If not, we will still make our desired profit by doing it all ourselves.

Here I am hijacking my own thread.

__________________
Woman in a Man's World.

alter_ego

Thats good advice. Tere is no substatute for expierance.

BTW. What does a room addition, sat a 13x13 bed room and a 5x7 bath on a slab with 8' plates run in your area psft. Your numbers seam very reasionable (low) to me.

Dave

mdshunk

All this fuss about a bedroom and laundry room addition? Ask the customer a few questions, draw a little something up, go over it with the customer, and send it out for quotes. Unless it's the Taj-Mahal, I don't get too many sets of prints to bid on for simple bedroom or laundry room additions. Basically all I might need to know is dimensions and what spot on the house it's going to grow out of.

Grumpy

People sometimes ask for a ball park site unseen, or in your case print unseen. I always try very very hard not to give them any numbers. If it comes down to it, I will give them a number range. The starting number will be my true real ball park based on what they tell me, and then I add 50% from there. Even using this formula I am sometimes low in my ball park because when I do get to see the jobsite, it is nothing like described... but that goes back to buyers are liars.

People sometimes ask "What does a roof cost?" My answer is always "Between $1,000 and $100,000." That always gets their attention, but it's true. A garage roof layover which one worker can do in 4 hours would be about $1,000 a tear off on a factory roof could EASILY be $100,000. So there is your range.

If I am to give a ball park on an adition, the info I need would be square footage, pitch, stories, side yard access, who provides dumpster, tie ins with existing roof, what is on existing roof, material to be installed, skylights, ventilation, flashing.

Double-A

If this is just an addition, then the only ones that will really need anything close to a print is possible the masons for the foundation work.

The rest of the subs can just eyeball the place, peak under the house or walk through and have a very good idea.

Plumbers might give you a big range if its on a slab, but on pier and beam should not be cause for headaches.

Hell, drink 3 martinis and draw it on a bar napkin and fax that to your subs. If they're experienced, they can even tell you how much you paid for the martinis.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

kevjob

i bid it with a line in the contract about how the plans will change my bid and i tell them up front no plans no solid bid.

__________________
Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

Mr. D

$200 sq ft. turnkey tends to cover some finer tastes.