Nice - To Be or Not To Be ? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Debookkeeper · 10-10-2006, 09:45 PM

Okay - objective input please. I have worked for this one guy for 4 years. He is self-employed, and his bookkeeping is simple. He is in a bit of a pickle right now, financially. It is pretty dismal with no "climbing out" in sight, anytime soon. I haven't been charging him, because - well... he needs to eat. I can't leave him high and dry either, because his mess will get messier without me keeping up on the books - besides, it isn't my MO.

I know everyone here has helped someone out before, but how long in your opinion is too long. He owes me about 225.00 as of today, and I myself don't have wads of cash laying around. I guess what I am thinking (it NEVER stops!

) is it isn't like he is going to be financially better next month, or even in six months. I just don't know WHAT TO DO!! I have a REAL hard time asking for money when I see first hand how little he has, and what does come in - I pay bills to try to keep him afloat. Opinions?

**ProWallGuy** · 10-10-2006, 09:47 PM

Its a job. Time to quit.

mdshunk · 10-10-2006, 09:49 PM

I don't operate a charity, but I do have a few customers that don't get bills. I guess this might be more of a personal decision. I can make just as good of an arguement for demanding payment as I can for letting him go. You've sorta already set a precedent by not billing him so far, havn't you?

Thewoodman · 10-10-2006, 09:51 PM

That is a tough spot to be in for sure. The bottom line IMO is you deserve to get paid for what you do. Maybe just write off the money he now owes you to help him out a little, then tell him you have to move on.

It is a tough thing to do but It's a problem that he has created and has to deal with, don't make it your problem to.

Good luck

Debookkeeper · 10-10-2006, 10:03 PM

I absolutely set a precedent. I was weak.

Two weeks ago when I was there, I could see his dispair.. and I told him not to worry about paying me for now.

I had a big mouth and spoke out of compassion, and way to quickly. So I dug a hole for myself - and after I spent 3 hours there today, it occurred to me that I didn't let him know how long "for now" would last. My fault, I know. It would be so hard to walk away. I think I can reach some sort of solution. Like next time I go - he will be up to 300.00. I will see about collecting half. I dunno!!

painterjim · 10-10-2006, 10:21 PM

Deb,
Do you work for this guy, or is he a client?

copusbuilder · 10-10-2006, 10:24 PM

I don't think there are too many on this board that don't help people here and there.
I respect the fact that you are trying to help and find myself in that position on ocassion.
I have a neighbor that has cancer and I have been cutting his grass for two years. His kids come and visit and sit at his house and do nothing

I continue to cut his grass because I respect him...not his kids

Go with the gut.

dirt diggler · 10-10-2006, 10:35 PM

Nice to be nice ...

however, I work, sweat and worry about paying my vendors. I go without until they are paid.

I also do not let myself get to the point where I owe a sub/vendor more than what I have. I do not take on credit accounts --- even when offered

Point is, I don't see "financial trouble" as an excuse for NOT paying your vendors.

While he needs to eat --- YOU DO TOO

It's not your fault, and even if he has every intention to pay you --- you'll be last --- you already know this

I mess this up a lot too --- it's great to have compassion --- but you need to control it. Compassion doesn't seem like a vice, such as a temper --- but it can have the same effects as a bad temper does.

ABLE1 · 10-10-2006, 10:46 PM

Since the way you are talking it would seem that this person is a client or customer. It also seems that the $300 owed may not hurt you that much at this time. My suggest is that if you really want to continue to help him try some or all of the following.

1) Schedule your time there when it least hurt your business time.

2) Make up invoices and add to his books as payables.

3) Tell him that his business "owes" the money to your business.

4) Tell him that you must put a cap or max on you billing. You must decide how much.

5) If you reach the cap or max amount you then need to discontinue service.

6) If the worst happens since you have invoiced him for your time and it will never be paid you can then write it off as "Bad Debt" or your taxes.

7) If he turns things around he can then (hopefully) pay off his debt to you at an appropriate interest rate.

8) Remember if you don't have invoices to prove that you did the work you will never be able to write it off as "Bad Debt".

9) Even if he manages to pay something on the invoices what can't be paid will go towards the bad debt.

This is not a perfect plan but it will give you some things to consider.

Good luck!!

Les

Mike Finley · 10-10-2006, 10:53 PM

Ditto everything Able1 said. That's a good comprise that gives you an eventual out but lets you currently do what you feel is right for the both of you at the same time. nice one Able.

**Teetorbilt** · 10-10-2006, 10:57 PM

I'd tell him that while he is a valuable customer, he has reached his credit limit. It's really funny how most people can fork up when pushed.

There are a lot of dopers that can cover a $200 a day habit without a job. He may just have to give up some pub time.

ABLE1 · 10-10-2006, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teetorbilt

I'd tell him that while he is a valuable customer, he has reached his credit limit. It's really funny how most people can fork up when pushed.

There are a lot of dopers that can cover a $200 a day habit without a job. He may just have to give up some pub time.

Ahhhhh Teetor............... She is the Bookkeeper.............. Yes??

**Teetorbilt** · 10-10-2006, 11:22 PM

Yep! And we all know that there is 'floating' money around.

cmwacasey · 10-11-2006, 12:18 AM

Deb this is quite intriguing.we might be able to help you,but we need more information.first question?on a scale of 1 to 10 how cute would you rate him.do not get offended that is just the first question ,we will ask the second question tomorrow,of course based on your answer tonight.

Patty · 10-11-2006, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmwacasey

Deb this is quite intriguing.we might be able to help you,but we need more information.first question?on a scale of 1 to 10 how cute would you rate him.do not get offended that is just the first question ,we will ask the second question tomorrow,of course based on your answer tonight.

Bwahahaha!!!!!!

Melissa · 10-11-2006, 12:32 AM

Yeah, if he were really cute, like HOT I'd work for free

No really, I think you need to set a credit limit of how much you can afford to loose if he can't pay you, and stick with that.

Good luck! I hope it gets better!!!

AirPro · 10-11-2006, 12:54 AM

PLAIN AND SIMPLE:
You said he has been in business for over 4 years....he should have a handle on his financials by now, if not...he needs to go back to work for someone else. The contracting business is not for the weak of heart, if you don't know what it cost's to operate your gig, you shouldn't be a contractor.
As for the FREEBIE thing....I can understand WHY you are doing it, but be realistic, you are a business too. You need to make a profit! Business is business, you MUST charge accordingly(MEANING YOU!). It seems to me this guy is a very poorly educated contractor and needs to either step back and sell his company or learn the proper way to manage it.
If I was you I would submit my bill to him for what he owes me, and not go back until it is paid. Shrewd....maybe, but like I said....it's business.

Peladu · 10-11-2006, 08:03 AM

What I read is that Deb has made this business relationship and turned it personal.
I can feel sorry for a guy, but I have yet to feel sorry for a Company.
I will do a small free-be here and there, but they are usually for customers over 70 years of age.
Never have given free work to a business though.

Also, I think that since you are a woman, you instinctual nurture others.
This time you need to get out of this situation. You are his book keeper, you should know how bad his situation is.

It boggles my mind that someone who is in business for four years, is unable to come up with 225.00 or even 300.00, to pay someone whom is still helping them. With that being said, he may just be taken advantage of you and your kindness.

Debookkeeper · 10-11-2006, 09:25 AM

Thanks for all the opinions! Peladu is right. Most people I work for have become my friends, and we even will on occassion, socialize outside of work. I think in my line of work - it works. If you can't feel comfortable and trust your bookkeeper......

There is NO extra money floating around Teetor. That is what is sad.

I have only worked for him for 4 years. He has been in business for over 15 years.

He is a DBA - so most of his personal info is intermingeled with his business - so I see it all. I work in his house. He is very depressed right now, so yes Peladu - Nature to Nurture.

Casey - He is NOT my type, but he is nice looking.

reveivl · 10-11-2006, 09:59 AM

Able1 nailed it. Talk to him about the situation (his AND yours) and let him know that you can't continue to work for free for ever. See if there is some compromise that could be reached. Can he trade anything to you? Work some of his debt to you off? It can't go on indefinitely, you gotta eat, too. Good luck, Rich.