New Gas Tax That Isn't Going To Happen

MALCO.New.York

They have been doing something similar in The UK for yeeaarrrrrrs!

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DetailHandyman

Do tell. Link?

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Leo G

How are we going to stop them when they do this stuff behind closed doors? When they get asked specific questions and deny deny deny. We can't stop something that we don't know about.

Either way, it will come. it has to. If we are going to be moving away from fossil fuels there has to be a different way to raise money to keep the infra structure in good upkeep. They have got to have a better way then using GPS to monitor the mileage. They say they won't use the info that the GPS creates. But both you and I know that they will. If the information exists, they will find a way to use it. They would need to do this on a flat system. Everything gets paid for at the same rate. Which of course is unfair. Just about all the vehicles have electronic odometers now. Just tap into those. Just as long as it isn't a tax added onto another (which it will be) it could be implemented somewhat fairly.

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DetailHandyman

Ok, I think most will agree that the technology is in place to do this. And no doubt, there is always a will for the govt to get more taxes.

One problem...

How do they implement this for older vehicles?

Are they gonna force us to install retrofit kits? Who pays for that? What about motorcycles?

I keep most of my rides for a long time. I've got a '73 Dodge PU that I drive almost daily.

The "beauty" of the current system is that there is a central system for collecting the tax: the gas pump!

By going to a GPS based system, the central system now becomes millions of individual systems, each subject to malfunction, tampering, etc.

The tech is there, the will is there. I just don't see how this can possibly be implemented effectively.

It all looks good on paper.

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Leo G

Same way, the reader will be at the gas pump, or your electrical refill at your home through the internet. Hard to stop the tampering though. First thing I said about the GPS is put a pc of tin foil over the antenna and low and behold, you never go anywhere.

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RenaissanceR

The GPS idea is being touted in Massachusetts, as well as a major increase in the gas tax. Instead of cutting waste and spending in MA, the Governor has decided to increase taxes and fees.

I have a fast lane transponder on my 2 commercial vehicles, for use on toll roads, and found out over the weekend, I will now be charged a monthly fee for each transponder.

And come inspection time for one of the commercial vehicles, the fee has been raised from $29.00 to $150.00, as anything over 10,000 GVW (including cube vans), will now be inspected according to Federal DOT rules. My van is 10,100 GVW, but Massachusetts has it classified at 11,000 GVW.

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DetailHandyman

Yeah, that would be fine. But, are they going to send you a bill every month? Or add the downloaded tax info to the pump price? Very cumbersome.

The more I think about it, the tampering issue is fairly easy to overcome (all govt employees, please look away )

First off, there's no real need for a GPS as we are familiar with it. The car already tracks mileage in the ECU. No easy way to falsify that. That data just needs to be uploaded somehow. A small radio transmitter at the gas pump, as Leo G suggested, would work just fine.

Tin foil you say? Ok, so you block the signals for a while . Most states have yearly safety/emissions inspections that require mileage data be recorded.

Hmmm, the mileage on the odometer (ECU) doesn't jive with what the transmitter has been (not) reporting?
No doubt a big fine for that.

As I said earlier, technology-wise this is plenty easy to do.

It's the implementation of it that's the killer. You have to retrofit hundreds of thousands of cars with a transmitter.

(And older vehicles that don't have computers, what do you do with those? )

You have to install tens of thousands of receivers in gas stations.

Who's responsible for paying for the installation and maintaining of this equipment?



One more thing...

Are there going to be different tax rates based on GVW?

Vehicle registration costs (trucks mainly) are often based on weight. A heavier vehicle does more damage to a road. Only seems logical.

Why don't they just raise the gas tax by a nickel and quit screwing around with all this other complicated sh!t.

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maverick17

I kind of like the idea.

But make it on the honor system.

That way all these guys who jack up their miles for a tax deduction would then have to pay a road tax for all the "miles" they drove.

I suppose, those who are cheats would only jack up the miles even more to make up for the tax they are paying on the miles they had to lie about to not pay Federal tax.


Now if you want me, or want a company to install something in my truck to keep tabs,

a hardy bull to that idea, I would rather walk.

DetailHandyman

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trptman

because that would make too much sense. this is the government we are talking about here. Everyone forgets the number one rule of people working for the government. that is to justify their job. You never hear of government employees or elected officials arguing that they are not needed.
That relates to this because the more complicated the system, the more bureaucrats needed to administer it etc. It's called job security for them.
it seems to me that it would simply not be cost effective to implement a tax system like this, but who knows...like I said...."it's the government".

MALCO.New.York

Not a Mileage Tax, a Congestion Tax/Daily Fee for the right to drive in Downtown London.

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Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
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naptown CR

BE afraid Be VERY afraid. This is a way to transition us from a fuel tax to a mileage tax when the electric and corn fed untaxed fuel cars start coming out of the auto makers.