Need To Rant

mikec

Ok friday I go price a roof. 23 square 1 layer off 8 pitch with a 12 on front of the garage. 1 eye dormer. New tamko ar 30's take the vinyl off the dormer and garage side wall to reflash, 2 small valleys on the dormer.$7,500.
Guy says great write it up. (now I know I need to work on my sales, and have contracts ready to sign in these situations.) I go home write it up, call him.....voice mail, i leave a message. Call yesterday ....voice mail, I leave a message. Call today.....voice mail I leave a message.
Yesterday I go look at 14 square straight ranch, 2 layers off Tamko elite glass seal 3 tabs on. 2 foot overhangs, so 6 feet of I & W, re flash the chimney with lead.(the guy wants 3 tabs because they're cheaper, and he's not staying in the house long). $5,200.00. He needs to get more estimates. i explain to him to be sure he compares apples to apples, and uses a licensed and insured contractor. He tells me that he knows this is important, but with the economy what it is, it has to be cost effective for him. Today I go see a guy who has a stanley steel front door that looks like the 908, and jamb have never been painted and are totally rotted, so bad the door won't close right. I tell him he needs a new door, he says,"can't you just make it close, I won't be in this house long"
Yesterday I gave a quote to a repeat customer who wants to pay to have me put in 3 harvey replacement windows and a therma tru door in his brothers house. He says ok, him and his mom are splitting it. To day he emails me and says, can you get the windows and door from HD we need to bring the cost down, my brother's not staying in that house long.
WTF? Is everyone moving out of connecticut, or are they just cheap.
Sorry, just needed to rant, i feel better, at least the phone is ringing......right?

BattleRidge

I just had 2 full home builds from a big developer/contractor that we have had for like 6 months and were to break ground about a week ago and..............................he went bankrupt. Forclosed the lots, I tried to buy them, someone beat me to it, then that guy said I cost to much. lol
I feel your pain>

loneframer

That is a cookie cutter reply that is synonymous with "Do it for half of what it's worth and you might get paid when you're done" I hate that

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kevjob

Hang in there you don't want work from those types anyway, I went on a basement finish estimate about a month ago to add a bathroom, well I walk down the stairs into a finished rec room done by HO without permits or inspections, added a gas fireplace etc.. he then proceeds to tell me that he is going to install the egress window but needs my engineer, my window guy etc.. I laughed and politely told him have a nice day and good luck.

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Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
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EricTheHandyman

I went on a bid the other day, remove wallpaper from 2 rooms, prime, 2 coats, plus a split level stairway thats about 1,000 ft up in the air. The lady tells me that down the line, she'd like me to re-do her bathroom as well, because her kids stripped the wallpaper but didn't remove the glue, so now it looks like azz and she doesn't want her kids to help her anymore.

Fast forward a few days, I call her to see if she got my bid, she says the price is too steep and she's going to have her kids do the work!!!

To top it off, I ask her what she thinks the price should be, and she tells me she doesn't know, it's just too steep. I give up!!!

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mosawdust

I can relate to what you all are saying. I bid a basement renovation and mud room remodel to a couple that came from a very good recomendation. I had to go back twice because they added a few more things to the basement project and he wanted me to look at a few other projects. After several calls to him to find out when he wants to start the project I was informed that he is going to use a Contractor from his church that will do it for half my price. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping church members, but come on. I know my bid wasn't that far off.

Stone Mountain

I just bid a basement. Basic stuff, bathroom, bedroom, rec room ,no flooring
$29,000.
Homeowner says he had 4 other quotes. Lowest $8000.! Yes, material supposedly included.
3 quote, including mine, around $30,000
Highest (he showed me) $130,000!!!
Same guy: an aluminum front porch enclosure. I get him a quote from my guy: $4400.00 plus a stipulated 10% markup.
He showed me a quote from someone else for $1600. The material is $1800!!!

I have no idea how they arrive at their prices.

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wolffhomerepair

I was out bid on a bath remodel. Complete gut new fixtures, tile, heated floor, the works. Guy who got the job was $6800 cheaper. Well lead was through a lead service who called the home owner to follow up on my bid and found out that the bath ended up costing them $5000 more than my bid. "Oh I didn't know the electric was bad, Oh I didn't know the plumbing needed to be updated, etc." Change order after change order. My bid was included everything. But apples to apples does not matter when price is the only thing they looked at.

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" Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time "

Frankawitz

I had one of my neighbors come down and asked me to give him a price on his kitchen drywall, He's a contractor does insulation, use to do windows and doors, So he tells me, him and his kids will do all the tear out, so I tell him I'll put some numbers together, I go back a day later cause he told me no hurry, I walk down the street to give him my price to drywall the kitchen, He tells me "Oh we are going to go with a guy from their church" ok fine, well I talked with him after the guy finished, I asked how did it turn out? He starts bitchin about the guy who had an Illegal do all the work and the guy just collected the money I guess those church worker are really Holy..... crap!!

rbsremodeling

I see this type of bidding more and more. Even from reputable companies. They are bidding exactly what the HO tells them, do not give any advice on potential problems or needed upgrades until after they are in their working then change order the HO to death

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HomerJ

This is very common here as well. These firms are low-balling just to get the work. Once demo starts, the change orders start flying. I think it's an actual business model that some of these guys live by.

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buildpinnacle

Maybe I leave money on the table, but I am just not a change order guy...unless they actually upgrade or change the scope of work. If I tear out a wall and 8 studs are rotted and we are framing, I swap them out in a half hour and move on. There are degrees to what I will do, obviously.

Never been a fan of the low bid in, high bid out form of contracting.

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thom

25 years ago I lost a new church building that way. The plans didn't include any finishes/trim for the restrooms or kitchen. I included them with a brief description of what would be included and priced them separately so they could be backed out easily for comparison to other bids. The church committee never read the bid (a few pages) but only looked at the bottom $ line from each bid. In reality, I was the low bidder but including the additional information cost me the job.

The part that annoyed me was their attitude. Each of us bidders spent a considerable amount of time and money bidding the project at their request but they couldn't be bothered with taking the time to actually read the bids.

Tom M

It all sucks ....Im going through the same crap. Sadly enough although we all hope the riff raff gets out of the business during these hard times instead its legit guys who are struggling to stay afloat. Most of these low bidders free lance work for a weeks pay and never spend the money or charge correctly to maintain the long haul.

Handymanservice

F!

I bid a job to a Realtor/Broker/Investor here in town. We are pretty hungry and this guy holds the keys to a ton of work (& he knows it). He asks me to give him a price to get a duplex he just bought cheap in rentable shape-turn key. And he does not want to hear from the tenant again.

I'm talking 2 Kitchens, 2 bathroom's, all new baseboard, linoleum, wall patches, new garage doors, and a lot of misc. stuff. Of course he want's the least expensive cabinets, cheap granite, etc.

It ends up at $28,000.00! My buddy is a Realtor for this guy and assures me the number is good and that I will get more work (which I have)because all I am doing is covering my nut on this one. After presenting the bid, he tells me that the labor price seems high? That $28,000.00 was labor and materials to do 2 whole Fing houses and the labor is "HIGH".

By the way, I quoted this for my partner that is a GC and we work together a lot. this guy got someone in there to work for $18.00 an hour to do the work. How could you ever compete with that? As it is, there was no "profit" in the job, just a way to keep bills paid for a month.

The truth is though, I am pissed that we didn't get the job, because it is an enormous waste of time to do a detailed estimate, make sure you are not forgetting anything, actually price out all materials, define the scope of work and then be told "your too high".

You just have to love this game to keep on playing!

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mgard64

We have all had it done to us. I cant say how many times I have done
estimates and home owner never calls you back. I charge for all my estimates. I got lowballed on a job once and the homeowner called me
to fix the other contractors mistakes. I charged time and materials for the
repairs. It cost the homeowner over $15,000 and come to find out the other cotractor had no insurance.

rbsremodeling

So you all have two choices Charge for estimates or give a ball park on the spot.

That detail proposal for every Tom, Dick and Sally is for the birds.

You guys are wasting time and ink

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Heritage

The Gov't isn't going to change the regulations, the market is wide open to everyone.

There is a market for:
-Hacks
-Lowballers
-Thieves
-Low-end, poor quality, price conservative projects
-Mid-range, decent quality, price conscious but still reasonable
-Mid-range, good quality, reasonably priced projects
-High-end, great quality, well priced projects
-High-end, amazing quality, liberal budget projects
-High-end, custom everything, fly material from Italy and France, "Price?"...Who cares? Projects

So riddle me this fellow men...how the heck are you going to be everything to all those markets?

So stop trying!

Figure out where you're at, what market you can serve, then weed out the rest. Stop wasting your time, YOU run the business, YOU set the tone.

I could give a flying monkey's turd what John/Jane Doe think such and such should cost...Bottom line...If you're not in my demographic, you're not on my radar.

I don't care what you do...figure out how to screen your potential clients.

Can't come up with a good screening format?

Charge for estimates...sign, sealed, delivered!

Does Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc...put ads on University Campuses and local Pubs?

Does Hyundai, Kia, etc....put ads in "lifestyles of the rich and famous" magazine, or "millionaire lifestyle"?

Walk into a Bently dealership wearing workboots and torn jeans...see how quick they throw your ass on the curb.

But us numbskulls, get a phone call from any tom, dick or joe, then race out with a big grin on our silly faces all the way to their ramshackle homes, race back to the office, then run back out and drop a 50k estimate on some hillbilly's lap who has never seen 50k his entire life then piss and moan when said hillbilly never calls back or gets his inbred cousin to knock out the project.

Yeah, I'm exaggurating...but you know it's not far from the truth.

I put realtors/investors right up there with the hillbillys.

WEED 'EM OUT BOYS!
WEED 'EM OUT!

Trust me,...your lives will be much better once you put down your defensive guard and just accept the truth. It's your fault!

Look yourself in the mirror, stare deep into your own soul and say:

IT'S MY FAULT
IT'S MY FAULT
TODAY, I VOW TO BE A BETTER BUSINESSMAN.
I HAVE MADE MISTAKES
THE TRUTH SHALL SET ME FREE.

The market won't change...so we better!

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ChrWright

Indeed...

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man can't make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
- John Ruskin

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Heritage

HA! A John Ruskin quote...I love it!

I have had this quote for a long time now and I keep it on my laptop:

When we build, let us think that we build forever.
Let it not be for present delight nor for present use
alone. Let it be such work as our descendants will
thank us for; and let us think, as we lay stone on
stone, that a time is to come when those stones
will be held sacred because our hands have
touched them, and that men will say, as they look
upon the labor and wrought substance of them,
“See! This our father did for us.” __John Ruskin

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